I've been lurking here for several weeks, getting much good guidance and insight, but now it's time to set in for real and get some advice.
I met my husband about five years ago. I was living alone in my own condo and had great plans for my future. He was living in a rental apartment. About eight months into our relationship he told me he didn't have any passion for me and wanted to split up. I said fine, if you believe your life will be better without me than with me then good luck with it. He asked for a second chance and I gave it to him because I loved him. Several months later I sold my condo and we used the profit to buy a townhouse in the city.
My husband is a big guy and after a year or so he was complaining about the entranceway being "one foot too narrow" and insufficient storage for his sport and hunting gear. We had planned to sell in five years to move to the country, but sped up the decision and sold the townhouse after 1.5 years to move into a huge bungalow in the country. It needed work but had great bones. I thought we were beginning to live the dream with our country house, pool, boat, etc.
Life seemed to be good. He hunted and fished a lot. I got my chickens. We enjoyed the quite and the space. I thought our intimacy would improve but it didn't and I began to comment that we were living like roommates. A mistake perhaps, but I know now a problem with how I communicate. That said, I tried to talk to him about it but he always had a reasonable excuse.
On September 6, after living in the country for just 15 months, he picked me up from work as usual. About ten minutes into the drive home he asked me if I've given any thought to our relationship and how I thought we were doing. I was floored. Asked him where this was coming from and he said he'd not been happy for several months. News to me as were were planning a trip in the Spring, had a good visit with friends on the weekend, etc. I guess you never know what's running through someone's mind. I asked him if there was someone else. He said no. Later in the evening he told me that he did not want to work on our marriage. The reasons for his feelings, he said were that I didn't make him feel like a man or like he is my protector. He also mentioned that one day he put on a new pair of jeans and my sister told him he has a nice butt and I didn't. He said he didn't think he could handle my strong personality. He advised me that in my next relationship I should do more to make my partner feel like a man. I was in shock to say the least. I of course defended myself to deaf ears and told him of the timesrecently when I gave him complements and of the many things I relied on him for. At the end of it all his reason for leaving was that I would never change. Change what, I don't know.
The next night he went out with some buddies and called me at 10 to say he wasn't coming home. I had seen my therapist earlier in the day and she said that this was his wounded inner child talking, that he maybe wanted more praise for all the work he'd done around our house (building the chicken coop, the pool deck, tearing out the basement so we could frame and insulate) and that I needed to acknowledge this, apologize for not giving him more credit, and promise to do better in the future. I said a few of these things on the phone but also wrote him an email and included asking him to not throw away everything we have.
The next day the feeling in my gut took over and I looked in his email. There was the evidence - the OW is a co-worker. All the emails I ever sent to him were deleted, including the ones imploring him to think this through. The emails from OW were hidden in his daughter's folder. I rifled a bunch of his things into garbage bags, piled it in the kitchen and waited for him to come home. When he did I confronted him and told him that if he was unwilling to work on our marriage and seeing someone else he couldn't continue to live in our house. He went to a friend's place and has been there since. My reaction was probably a mistake but I can't dwell on that.
One week after I threw him out he emailed wanting to come down and collect some things. I said fine. We talked for a bit, very little about us. He emailed later, wanting to come down to sit and talk, not about anything inparticular. I said fine. While here I asked him if he was still seeing OW, he said "no, how can I be involved with her if I'm thinking about coming home?" I accepted this and was hopeful and generous. He came another time to talk, took some things, good visit.
The following week he had booked off time from work to work on the basement. He wanted to still do that so he did. I got home from work and he was here. We got to talking, I asked him how work was, he said stressful. I asked him how his "situation" was. He said "what situation?" I said well you were seeing a co-worker and then dropped it, that can't be easy, to which he replied "we still talk". I told him that this limbo was the hardest part for me, to which he said "well I don't know if I'm ever coming back". My gut tweaked again and I said "now is the time for honesty. You're still seeing her aren't you?" and he nodded his head. Things went south from there. I told him I could have gotten over the affair but not the lying, that his father (deceased) would be ashamed of him. He gave both ridiculous and sensible reasons for leaving but ultimately said again "you'll never change". I roared at him that of course I can change, people change every day, but that HE is the one who will never change.
I met with sD20 shortly after this. Apparently he had told her that we both agreed a separation was best, etc. But she knew in her gut that it was something else and asked me if he'd cheated and if her name was ***. "Yes" was all over my face. She put her head on the table and sobbed. I found out that day that he'd lied to me about other things related to his conflict with his daughter (they recently went more than a year without talking; she credits me with their reconciliation) and the break up of his first marriage 20 years ago. I know next to nothing about his past. Anytime I asked about his past he said "doesn't matter, it's in the past". That's all I would get. I told her that we are all flawed human beings and that I hope she can find a way in the future to have a relationship with her father. It seems doubtful, though, because he's let her down so much throughout her life.
When he came to get the boat for winterizing we talked a bit. He's a mess. Had an ambulance pick him up at work because of a migraine. Never had one in the five years I've known him. Other physical symptoms too. He has a referral for counselling but won't go. My confidantes ask if maybe something happened to him when he was a child. I don't know. I did discover use of some heavy duty online porn use throughout our entire relationship. I guess that explains the lack of intimacy. He takes full responsibility for destroying our marriage, but won't say he lied. Instead says "I manipulated the truth", whatever that means. Says he has to do better in the future but refuses to fix today's mistakes. I think he's got some deep seeded stuff going on and he's afraid to confront it. Maybe communication, intimacy, marriage all make him squirrelly and I am simply collateral damage.
Fast forward to today, and both his daughter and first ex-wife aren't talking to him. His mother told him he is a failure who will never have a successful relationship. He has found a one bedroom apartment in the city and moves in this month. His mother has paid off our SUV because he told her he was stressed about money and so that it would be easier for me to assume the mortgage on the house. (There's no equity in it so we can't refinance, and it needs a lot of work so selling it would mean a big hit). He is trying to sell the boat, leaving us with about 14K shared debt. He thinks he can take furniture from the house, but the majority of it was bought by me before we were married so is not considered community property. I don't want him taking anything as I've had enough upheaval in my life, but don't know how to handle this.
I think a critical piece in this is the death of his father from a brain tumor about three weeks after our wedding. We found out about it about six weeks before and it cast a shadow over our marriage. I cried a lot on our honeymoon. I spent the first night in tears because he was more interested in hockey than in me. Another night he got loaded and passed out and I had dinner alone and sobbed my way back to our room from the restaurant. When I called him on his drinking before he passed out he hollered "my father is dying" to which I responded "then talk about it, don't drink it." A third night I was on my hands and knees crying and cleaning up his projectile vomit while he was passed out. I think back on it and the whole thing horrifies me. I don't recall if I ever got an apology. I just accepted that this behaviour was part of him mourning his father. In July sometime he came up from the basement in tears. Not sobbing, but wet eyes and cheeks. I dropped what I was doing and said "Honey, what's wrong?" very compassionately. He said he didn't know, that he missed his father. I supported and consoled, asked if he wanted to do something different, but he went back to the basement. Perhaps I should have just taken him out somewhere.
SD told me that when H initially told her about the breakup he said he wanted to get an apartment near her university so that they could live together. She's lived with her mother and stepdad her entire life. In the weeks leading up to the bomb he had been talking about joining facebook. I was completely and totally bewildered. It's something he's never had an interest in. He's also been obsessively standing on the scale, looking for weight loss. He's lost a lot over time and I've always told him how good he looks. These days, however, he's gaining weight, smoking, not doing well from my limited perspective.
I believe he's in the middle of a massive breakdown, MLC style. When I'm objective I think that maybe this was going long before he dropped the bomb. Nobody making wise decisions throws their life, family and future away like this. I feel so strongly about wanting to save my marriage, but I am confused because I don't feel I know him anymore. He and only he wants the separation; I told him I would do anything to save our marriage.
I have gone NC, and I rarely respond to the nicey nice friendly questions he puts at the end of emails, like "I found an apartment. I want to come and get most of my stuff and talk about furniture. How was your trip? did you get caught in the snow? Are you finished the basement?" This is partly because I want to go dark and partly because it hurts too much. I have a life and I know how I may have contributed to the breakdown of our marriage. The difference is that I am committed to do the work to manage my fears and challenges, but he is not.
Often when I see him he says he's confused...I don't ask about what. When he leaves he gives me a big hug and a kiss on the forehead. He said he's proud of me for seeking out counselling immediately after he left, and for framing and insulating the basement by myself. Maybe he thinks we're friends. Maybe he thinks that by asking about my life and acting like he cares I won't hate him. Maybe he wants to reduce his guilt. But it messes me up every time.
He continues to use our joint account for things that he should not, like his life insurance. He hasn't changed his contact info with the bank. He figures he can store some of his stuff here. He hasn't changed ownership of the vehicle yet. He's done nothing to advance a separation agreement, but says he'll hand title of the house over to me. He's been living rent free for two months but doesn't seem to have anything to show for it. If he wants to get away from me then do these things and go. He says he is not running or hiding but I believe we both know different. His pattern has been to push things that bother him down instead of talking about them. He's admitted recently that maybe he's doing this. He also recently told me in an email that he truly hopes I find someone who won't hide from me. I still don't know what that means but take it as a very bad sign for my marriage. But at the same time I think he figures it's just too late for us now. Maybe my fatal mistake was throwing him out and flipping out when I discovered he'd been lying about not seeing OW, as that's when the "can i come over just to sit and talk" requests stopped.
I know that being hardcore with him about household contents won't help either of us, but that letting him walk away with half of my belongings, my heart and my soul will be excruciating for me. There will be no equalization or spousal support as he makes enough money and the marriage was short. Thank god there are no kids. Fortunately I have a good job, but with carrying the house myself I can't afford to buy furniture. I don't want to live in an empty house.
What do I do? How do I manage this? Is there hope?
me 45 H 46 T 5 M 2.5 BD Sept 6 2011 OW Sept 8 2011 Threw him out Sept 8 2011
Sorry that you are here. Post often so you will not be on moderation. There are people here with lots of experience. Read other post and get the DR books ASAP. Maybe you should get a free consult with an L regarding the furniture. What is it that you want? Do you want to save the M? Here is a list of things that may help if saving your M is the goal. people here will tell you to make changes in you and to become the best you. Hang in there
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives becausehe/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Thanks for the list, Rick. I've seen it before and have been trying my best to follow it.
H was just here to pick up a few things for hunting. Told me I look good when he came in, then immediately asked if he could step on my scale. Told me that he and D20 were going to go visit his mother, although she mostly yelled at him on the phone. Oddly shook my hand when he saw the work I'd done framing and insulating the basement. Offered to winterize the lawn mower (I didn't ask) but instead showed me how to do it since I want to mow the lawn one last time before the snow falls. Asked me if I want any meat if they shoot a deer, I said yes, of course. So that was all fine and pleasant.
When he was leaving he got a form that I am supposed to fill out to transfer ownership of the SUV to him. He asked if I could fill it out and bring it to the provincial office in town. I told him "I'm not dropping that off. This is your choice and I'm not doing any of the leg work." He seemed annoyed by that and said "I don't know if I can drop it off for you. I can try." Then we parted ways without a word.
We're supposed to be meeting somewhere on Tuesday to discuss furniture, etc. I told him he can always just send me a list of what he's thinking about taking, but he seems to want to meet. It's a conversation I don't want to have because I don't want him to take anything except the things he brought into the marriage. I also don't want to cry or fight.
How do I handle this? Is there even any point? We don't have kids so there is no reason for contact once we part ways. Will DBing work for me?
me 45 H 46 T 5 M 2.5 BD Sept 6 2011 OW Sept 8 2011 Threw him out Sept 8 2011
I'm no expert but I see a lot of hope. Seems like the house was a big stresser and in some ways he was walking away from that big project. You seem like you are doing a good job limiting contact. I would not pressure him regarding any money issues or mail etc, he is very confused right now. If you ask him he will seperate even more because he will feel pressure to be a man and stick to his guns. Dont pursue but whenever you have the opportunity complaiment him on the manly stuff he did around the house.
GOod luck! Keep Believing
---- M 39 H 35 D5,D4 M 4 T 9 ILYBNILWY 5/18/11 Left 7/11/11 Divorced 12/1/13
