Looking for the silver lining...

[irishblessings]

Another indignant email arrived today at work. Documented the exact times of texts to son during the day and said S wasn't responding and this was the reason for his continued frustration.

Well, I was at work all day - after getting S up at 5:30am for basketball practice. So sorry you are frustrated - or hurt - or angry. Really????!!!!

I realized today as XH continues to exhibit these self-righteous, narcissistic and arrogant behaviors that he believed that S would be wanting to hang with him all of the time. He really thought there would be no change in their relationship. The thought that S would be angry or would be disapproving of X's choices is just so shocking to him.

I do not respond to these messages. Not to agitate him - but really to redirect myself away from the chaos and crisis. I am working very hard on improving my relationship with S and keeping him focused on positive things.

Divorce Care class has been very helpful. Sometimes the ideology might not match but the advice and suggested boundaries are really helpful.

[dl443322]

Amazing, isnt it, IB?

They are clueless. And cuckoo.

You should not answer him or engage him. Son is old enough to forge whatever relationship he wants with his dad. The custodial arrangement has been agreed upon. Nothing you need to say to your xh regarding his relationship with your son.

It sukks for them when they realize that things are not going as they planned.

Not your problem.

[irishblessings]

Thanks Brooke - X just texted me to say he just "got done with S at the restaurant where he works" -

Poor S - oh well.

Will not respond!

[irishblessings]

So, S just got home and was very high strung. Said he got in the car with his Dad and "went off". Said he told him that he was almost 18 and couldn't deal with him treating him like a child - especially when he wasn't in his life. Said that he was a man and he deserved to know the truth about what really happened. Said he had no desire to have a relationship with OW or mistress - told him he thought she was trashy and that she had no invitation to come around him asking questions about his life.

I just listened - when he was finished - I just asked him "how do you feel about how you handled the situation" - he said - I feel good.

Another day.

[totallygutted]

Sometimes a wake up call like that is needed to shake the MLC'er. I can see the same thing happening with my kids at some point (14 & 19). I know mine are not too pleased to see me doing doing all the heavy lifting keeping house ,family and home together while W is free to do whatever she wants and acts like everything is normal.

[Lorie1964]

IB,
I so proud for your son standing up for himself! I wish my D17 could do the same. I am glad he felt good about the interaction and not bad. You are raising a great young man!

[irishblessings]

I was cc'd on an email today. XH emailed S's English teacher to check on his senior paper. XH also works at my S's HS. So the email is very nice to the teacher - and then states: "So appreciative of your help - it really takes a village to raise a child."
All I wanted to do is SCREAM F-U (I'm feeling that a lot lately). I thought - well I could reply to him and spell it out in white font - he would have no idea what it said:). Instead - just ignored it and went about the business of living. My S and I are on a good stretch right now and that is all that matters.

At the divorce class last night, the group was talking about the symbol of a triangle and that God should be the point and the wife is one side of the triangle and the husband is the other. The closer the spouses are to God the more narrow the triangle. OK - good theory - I get it. I have spent these last 17 months trying to articulate concisely what has bothered me about this whole mess and I think I have narrowed it down to this:

So many people have a somewhat glib attitude towards marriage and commitment these days. It's the "well, if you are not happy then you need to get out and get happy." OK - so that's one way to look at it. But I've really been wondering about what does a good man do when he begins to feel unhappy in his marriage or in his life. Let's say that he is so unhappy that he ends up doing a lot of bad things - affairs, deceit, etc. When it all comes to a head - what does a good man do? Does he leave or does he stay and re-commit and work to make amends for the harm done? My gut wants to believe the latter - but I don't know for sure. Can a WAS become a "good" person again if they never work to repair the damages? I think of it like the 12 steps - making amends is a big step. And then I wonder - what would amends look like today?

This divorce class is sponsored by a local Christian church but it is a non-denominational program. It does however prescribe some pretty rigid boundaries regarding life for those divorced - the "wait a year for every 5 years you were married before you get involved with anyone" / the "born-again virgin" - no sex until you remarry / the "you are never truly free from the marriage unless the ex-spouse marries someone else". Don't get me wrong - I am NO where close to wanting to seek another relationship. I know I need this time. And my faith does somewhat align with versions of these opinions - but I really don't know what I feel about all of this. Maybe I am just not ready to figure out how I feel about these beliefs.

Am I alone in these random thoughts?

[AntoniaB]

First, IB, I think that if you feel that anger, you are 100% justified, and you are learning how to NOT cast it out where it will do no good, but to vent and let it pass over you. Good tactic...very healthy.

Secondly, on the class...your observations...first, I do think that a person might be able to come to a point where he/she does work on a marriage. (Re: your comment about whether a person can decide to work later when the first time they are faced with problems, they do the opposite). But yes. It takes a lot of things to make that happen. I almost think it takes a person hitting a much bigger "rock bottom" than he/she did with the initial MLC. Something really "earth-shattering" to shake them up to the point where they, like us, "do the work." I think that "life" doesn't always deal those cards though. It seems to be random chance.

In my XH's case, if he doesnt' get royally dumped by OW, or cheated on by her, I just dont' see him ever coming to that point. Honestly even the death of one of his parents isn't going to trigger it. I know him too well. He must lose "EVERYTHING" for this to happen. So I just don't put any money on that, if you know what I mean.

I do think that in some way, your post above shows your doubt in "standing" if to you, "standing" meeans "waiting" for your XH to get his head right and attempt to reconcile.

When I take your questions there about what "amends" look like today, coupled with the doubts you have about the very rigid rules that your group is placing on those recovering from divorce, to me, (and I could be wrong) you are starting to question things. You seem like you might be questioning if it is a good idea for you to carry any torch for your XH anymore...

You also seem to be questioning if those rigid rules are "correct."

If this is true, that does not mean you are looking to have a rel. with anyone at all. All it means is that you are starting to question the validity of waiting for your XH to want to and learn how to be an equal partner in a covenant.

I think you seem at a crossroads. And I do think it is being fueled by the anger you've finally allowed yourself to feel.

Here's the thing. You can CHOOSE to say to yourself, "IB is finished with that relationship. She tried everything under the sun to keep it together, and she even tried after the papers were signed to do what was right. But she could not do it alone. He had to be part of it. He chose not to be. And so IB is going to move on."

And moving on means this: you are simply entertaining the thought that perhaps, somewhere down the road, you might see your way to a life with someone else.

That's it.

Not so complex, is it? It isn't a commitment to anything. It doesn't mean you wouldn't entertain the idea of reconciliation if your XH were to get his head right. It also doesn't mean you'll be in a relationship with someone else.

All it means is GALing.

And this is WONDERFUL for you.

I've told you before that I have a lot of problems with any group, no matter the affiliation, setting out "rules" or "timelines."

I think this is all VERY individual and depends entirely on your level of recovery and detachment.

So as much as the group helps you, don't let their guidelines or arbitrary timelines get you down.

You are clearly not "looking" right now for someone. But in another year or so, given the rate of your "recovery", what if you did meet someone very kind whom you liked? Would you really want to say "no, the group says thus and so." If you personally felt "ready" to date, you should date.

Sometimes you only know if you go on a first date.

So don't let the timelines get to you.

I think that you're in a good place....and I think that you are starting to actually think about a life without waiting for XH. This is GOOD.

Just because you go it alone and learn how to thrive alone doesn't mean you shut out possibility to reconciliation with him.

All you're doing is saying that every day is precious, and I'm going to life as if he's never coming back.

That's a good thing.

[kml]

It does however prescribe some pretty rigid boundaries regarding life for those divorced - the "wait a year for every 5 years you were married before you get involved with anyone" / the "born-again virgin" - no sex until you remarry / the "you are never truly free from the marriage unless the ex-spouse marries someone else"

You know - I'm not one to knock anybody's religious beliefs, I grew up Catholic and understand people who adhere to such rigid standards. But - I think such inflexible "rules" are not necessarily helpful to many (most?) of us.

I think a lot depends on A) where you are in the process of letting go and B) what your plans for the future are.

For instance - I actually started dating only a few months after my ex moved out. BUT - my ex moved out after YEARS that consisted of his affair, my DBing, our successful reconciliation, several happy years, then another miserable year trying to change his mind about leaving. So once he filed, I was DONE - I realized there was nothing he could possibly do in the future that would ever make me trust him enough to take him back. And I had had years to process everything, so I was truly ready to date. Should I have waited five more years (according to their formula)? That seems like overkill. I think people should wait until they are stable and have let go of their ex. Everybody has their own timetable.

As for the "born again virgin" stuff? I think you have to consider your future plans. If you're a young person, planning to marry again and maybe have more children, then that might make sense - at least, being extremely cautious so as not to end up in complicated unintended pregnancy territory would be wise.

But I'm post-menopausal and don't intend to get legally married again - it seems an unnecessary legal and financial complication at this point in my life. (And nobody my age expects me to be virginal anyway lol). I have been choosy about my partners since the divorce, and don't regret any of them.

Another poster tonight talked about a friend's husband dying unexpectedly at 43 from an aneurysm. I think we all have to be careful not to get so wrapped up in our marital dramas, that we forget to get out there and LIVE!

(P.S. Your son rocks!)

[beatrice]

I am wary of all rules that are not beneficial to us as healthy functioning human beings.

I do think many people get involved with someone else before they have healed, and healing takes time. Also many people do not want to live alone. Learning to do this is really important unless we are to move from relationship to relationship.

As to sex - a very wise friend of mine said that she thinks becoming intimate very early in a relationship often prolongs one that was going to die. And the more I thought about it the more right I think she is.

So while I wouldn't put lengths of time, or impose rules about when you sleep with someone, I have come to see that rushing into a relationship telling yourself that life is short, is often not a very sensible thing to do. The rituals and rules that surrounded the mating process are not simply rituals of an out of date and male dominated society [although some of them are!] Some are sensible guidelines that we might take pause to reflect on.

We have all been dealt a hard blow here, and I certainly don't think beating anyone up further is kind or necessarily helpful, whether they choose to stand longer than some regard as sensible or whether they appear to rush somewhat precipitately into another relationship. This is our journey and while our long term goal is happiness and joy, I think this is through a life well lived, and that may involve a bit of suffering along the way while we grow up. It is not simply about the avoidance of all pain.