Can a marriage survive two affairs?

[25yearsmlc]

I'm confused.

He had an affair before and did nothing to correct the cause of it. just stopped...for awhile.

Has a 2nd affair and almost ends the marriage and now, finally, more or less decides you're good enough to stick around for. But oops, he has mixed feelings about leaving b/c of OW...

No work on HIM or his flaws or mindset (that makes him prone to serial adultery-these 2 affairs are the ones you know about)...

it's just that he doesn't feel like cheating this week.

And he "Refuses" to go to c? What? Even by himself? OMG talk about not wanting ANY accountability.

And this is enough for you?



If it were me, I'd be sick to my stomach every time he's late from work

or on a trip or acting weird, the rest of my life...

Aren't you always going to be waiting for the other shoe to drop?

If the underlying problems are not fixed, then they remain.

Sorry

but that's my .02

[Mustworknow]

I think I have not explained things very well. the first affair things were corrected. He bent over backwards and forwards showed remorse and everything. He did not go to counceling and niether did I the first time. I think I should have then. This second time I do not feel he is completely over it yet to be at the remorse stage. He is getting there. that is why I am in this forum not in piecing. If he was showing remorse and over it completely I think I would be moved on my now. He is working on his mindset. I know that he has a great deal of issues and I have a long way to go before I can trust him but I thought this place was pro marrage. All I ever get is negative feedback. No advise on how I should proceed just what a crap husband I have and pretty mush there is no hope. I give up on this forum.

[25yearsmlc]

we are pro marriage

and I'm telling you that IMO, you are sweeping things under the rug.

Hoping THIS TIME will be the last but not fxing what allows him to do this.

We want the underlying causes addressed, not the triage E.R. room...that's for when you are first here.

Then it's all about getting you thru the day.

now you are in a position to assess the realities and the reality is that this man has had two affairs you know of

and he's sad about losing the OW?

So to me, that means there is a big piece of the puzzle missing.

All I can go by is what happened before, which was "it got fixed" per you...but if so, why'd it happen again?

And neither time he gets c. Maybe if this were the only A,

AND he felt a lot of remorse...but this is the 2nd one and he's not even ready yet to do the work.

SAYS the things you need, finally, but...it's a pattern now...so

as i asked you, Not knowing why this happened AGAIN and NOT addressing that...


Is that really alright with you?

If so, okay.


You originally asked us for our opinions and we're saying that we are worried he's not really getting it.

We bother saying that b/c we are PRO - M and want to see this fixed...not papered over.

make sense?

[MrBond]

Nobody ever said you had a crap H. The thing is that we are telling you the steps that need to be done, but you don't want to listen. Everyone here is pro-marriage. We wouldn't be here if we weren't all fighting for M.

You came here for advice. You have to understand that the advice here may not be what you want to hear, but it is what you NEED to hear. We aren't counselors. However, we all have gone through what you have and there's nothing more valuable than experience.

All of us have been left behind by our spouses. You are not any more special than the other posters.

You need to see that you can do all the work you want, BUT if he doesn't start doing things to help with your needs and insecurities it will happen again. It may not be counseling, but him pining over the loss of the OW isn't seeing to your needs.

Again, listen carefully, you can do all the work, but he was the one who initially went after another person. If he does not find out why that happened and deal with this, chances are likely that they will happen again. You will find that once a WAS has made the decision to leave once, they will find it easier to do it again in the future. That's why 2nd M's fail so much.

If you don't believe me, go back and read the posts of the people who have successfully reconciled. In every case, the WAS starts to show concern for the well being of the LBS.

Again, this may not be what you "want" to hear, but it's what you NEED to hear.

[25yearsmlc]

bond is right.

I absolutely would not have taken h back but for the changes he was making, mostly back to his old self. I had to feel safer than I had been.

But he said things like wanting to "be the h I deserved" and "begging" me to be with him, give him another chance, etc.

Also agreed immediately to c, and then to Retrovaille. No hesitation.

[MrBond]

Any updates?

[Mustworknow]

I have read several site that do not think counceling is the "thing" that is necesary to be able to work things out after an affair. Based on my counceling I believe that. I have stopped going. I do not feel my counceling was helping me. I was getting more from the books and website then I was from the councelor.
As far as my H, he has figured out why he had the A. He realized he missed "us". The romance, the spark, the in love feeling we had when we were dating and when we were first married. Before we had the kids and all the worries and stress. The OW clicked with him and he felt that spark and she remined him of those feelings but until he "thought" about it he did not realize it was all about me. He really thought at the time he had fallen in love with his actually soul mate and had the A based on that. He now knows I am the one for him and is committed to us. He is never going to lose site of the team we are and now he will never have another affair since this time he is totally clear on what he has and what he wants.

[MrBond]

Well good luck.

IMHO that's not really a reason for the A. What you don't understand is that if he really missed the spark with you, why didn't he try to connect with you before finding the OW? Just a word of warning. Most of the couples who reconcile have a number of false starts. They go through a new honeymoon period that soon wears out. Not trying to be a naysayer here, but if I had a nickle for every situation who "reconciled" the way you have, then found themselves back here in a couple of months or years, I'd be very rich indeed.

Has HE learned any new things to keep the spark going? That spark will go out in time like it did the first time he had an A. Sometimes I get the feeling that you're so happy that he's back, you think the work is done. Not so.

[Accuray]

Mustworknow,

My W had an EA that I have been hell-bent on figuring out -- why did it happen, how do I reconcile, and how do I prevent it from happening again.

Here's what I've learned in brief:

All relationships start with an "in love" phase. This phase chemically alters your brain and makes you feel very good. You feel that your lover can do no wrong, you don't see their faults, and you bask in their attention. This is the attraction of an affair. This "in love" phase never lasts, it cannot, in a marriage or an affair. It is predictable that this will last from several months up to two years, but virtually never longer than that, eventually reality sets in. At that point, your lover's flaws become visible and important, and what never used to bother you now does.

If you were living with the illusion that the in-love feelings should last forever, then you become disillusioned and believe you have fallen out of love, and start looking for that in-love feeling somewhere else. You can physically and emotionally feel withdrawal from not having this feeling anymore, and that withdrawal can last from weeks to months. Until your H goes through this withdrawal from the A, you will not make much headway in terms of true reconciliation. This is what GAL and giving space are all about. While your H is going through withdrawal, you are taking the time to make yourself more attractive as a partner, without applying pressure to the relationship. The key learning here is that the end of the "in love" feelings are normal and predictable. No one is going to supply that feeling for your H forever, neither you or an OW -- your husband needs to come to terms with that.

What happens then is that love becomes a decision, and becomes work. You both need to decide the work is worth it for the sake of your marriage. Your H may not be there yet, so you need to do all the work yourself initially to give him a glimpse of how good things can be, then perhaps he will be motivated to do the work too. You need to figure out what your spouse needs to feel loved, and you need to supply it, whether it comes naturally to you or not. This doesn't mean you should be a doormat, this doesn't mean you should be subserviant. It simply means that your spouse has needs that need to be met in order to *feel* loved. If your spouse feels loved, they will love you back, and you create and foster a positive cycle.

If you do not love your spouse the way THEY want to be loved, they will not feel loved, will withdraw, and will not supply you with what you need, which starts a negative cycle -- you will both withdraw and feel hurt, and will manifest that hurt by complaining, or straying, or arguing, or any number of other negative behaviors. The bottom line to most of this is "I don't feel loved, you're letting me down by not giving me the love I need the way I need it."

The mistake most people make is that they try to give their spouse what they need themselves. i.e. if you need compliments to feel loved, you will compliment your spouse, and be frustrated that he does not respond or compliment you back. You need to figure out what he needs to feel loved. For some people it's compliments and affirmation of your love, for some it's physical touching, for some it's doing things for them, and for some it's spending quality time, etc. If you do the wrong thing, no matter how good your intentions, your spouse will not respond the way you want.

If you figure it out, your spouse will feel loved, will not be tempted to stray, and will be motivated to supply you with what you need.

These themes are repeated in virtually any relationship book you pick up, and I've read a bunch of them.

WRT MC, in my experience the main point of it is to get you communicating in a healthy way. If you have trouble talking to each other and being heard and understood, MC can be very good. A lot of people have this problem. MC may also help each of you figure out what you need from the other, and how to ask for it. The downside of MC is if the counselor is not solution-oriented, they can tend to look for and focus on problems. Focusing on problems makes them gain importance, and can have you leaving feeling worse than if you had focused on the positive, and all the things you do well together and the strong points in your marriage.

I'm not a pro, but that's the bottom-line on what I've found, and it does make a lot of sense to me. You can change your marriage by changing yourself, and your approach to your spouse. If you change, your spouse MUST change in reaction, and you start a positive cycle that feeds itself.

Affairs are hugely painful (my W's EA has been brutal for me). The interesting thing is, however, that they're not about you, and they're not a reflection on you. They are about your partner feeling unloved, and going out to satisfy that need in an inappropriate, unacceptable way. You can't stop them from doing that again if their needs remain unsatisfied.

That goes to everyone's advice on this thread about identifying the root cause. Why does your husband feel unloved? What can be done to fix that? What can he do for you to make you feel loved? How can you ask each other for what you need? Those are the hard questions, and fixing that is the hard work, but that's what's needed to prevent the affairs from continuing to happen.

--Accuray

[Accuray]

One more thought regarding this:

"The romance, the spark, the in love feeling we had when we were dating and when we were first married. Before we had the kids and all the worries and stress."

If your H is basing your reconciliation and his recommitment to the marriage on that "spark" and "in-love" feeling, then Mr. Bond is right, this is a false reconciliation because that feeling and that spark absolutely cannot last. That's a fairy tale.

Once your H comes to terms with that, you'll be in a good place to talk about the feelings you need from a long term committed relationship.

Although your H's words may feel good, I don't think it's the message you want.