Finally confronted H on affair...Now what????

[keep_going]

Hi, I am a new member. My situation is complex, so I apologize for the long summary and appreciate any imput.

I've been married for 13 years and together for 19. Our situation has deteriorated with every passing year. I have had an anger management problem throughout my adult life and my husband comes from a broken family and an abusive alcoholic father during his childhood. Needless to say, we both brought a lot of baggage to our relationship in addition to all the mistakes we've made, letting anger and resentment take over our marriage.

Last year was the worst - the only highlight was a trip to Hawaii - we had a great time and I felt very hopeful that things could improve. We bought a new house in Nov.and also went to New Orleans for a week-long work convention from my husband's job. We had a terrible fight my last day there (I returned 3 days earlier than he did). I later found out that he started an EA with a client from Oakland at a party the day after I left.

Three weeks later I found out I got pregnant during our trip (we had been trying all last year). My husband later admitted that when he found out, he felt trapped by this pregnancy.

We moved in to our new home on Dec. 17th. On the 20th he told me ILYBNILWY. He said my anger had finally destroyed our relationship and that he had given up on us and was moving out. Despite all our problems, I was shocked and in my usual angry reaction, I told him to leave - I didn't want him to stay if he didn't love me. He moved out on 12/23 and on January 17th we had our worst argument ever - he once again placed all the blame for our problems on my anger. That was the day I hit rock bottom and decided to get help for anger management and started working on fixing myself.

On January 31st he asked for the divorce. He told me he now had a new life, new friends and he was happy. He also said he did not want anything to do with me anymore and I would need to start looking into how I would support myself because he was only willing to help with joint children's expenses.

Since he had always been in charge of our finances, I immediately started to look into our financial affairs to learn what I would need to take care of if he followed through with the divorce. That is when I found out about his EA with OW - she is married, lives in Oakland and has 2 daughters. He later told me she was just a friend with whom he shared his marital problems. He told me her husband had cheated on her, yet they were working on restoring their marriage.

I am not sure exactly when the affair turned physical, but it was as early as January. He has visited her frequently and she has also come down here a few times. He has tried to hide the affair unsuccessfully - he is a terrible liar. I have been finding out info gradually in the last six months through clues he leaves behind and I admit it - through snooping in on our phone bill, credit card records, and his and her facebook and twitter pages.

I confronted him on his EA back in April. He became very upset, turned it on me and accused me of snooping and denied it. He added he didn't think there was anything wrong with him dating anyways because he had been very clear back in late January that he wanted the divorce and I was the one who asked him to wait and think about it. He also said he wants to be happy and does not want to look back in 10 years and realize he has been miserable or wasted his life.

He has also displayed other signs of a MLC - he joined an online dating service in January, which he just disconnected a couple of weeks ago. He is exercising regularly, updated his wardrobe to a younger "cooler" look, spending $, going out, etc.

In the meantime, I have been working with a coach, reading a lot of self-help and relationship books, including Michelle's DB and TheDR and have worked on my anger management and becoming a better person, wife and mom. Although I have had setbacks, I have made a lot of progress.

Our relationship has also improved. We don't argue nearly as often as we used to and when we do, we reconcile right away instead of holding a grudge for days. I have stayed away from talking about his new lifestyle, his affair & dating, spending, detachment from our daughters, or our relationship. I have tried to concentrate on being a good friend, being supportive and improving our interactions. He had noticed some my changes and commented on them. He has moved from not wanting anything to do with me, to sometimes showing genuine care for me.

Yet his behavior is inconsistent. Sometimes he is mean, rude and detached, and is always texting OW or other friends. Other times he is very nice and treats me like a friend, engages in conversations and shares some of his feelings and we've had some fun times together. Twice in April and once in May, he made some advances, we got intimate and he ended up spending the night. We have also gone to the movies twice in the last month. A couple of times in April he acknowledged being depressed and not knowing what he wants.

Last weekend OW came down and stayed with him for 3 days. Before her arrival we went to our niece's graduation together. He texted OW the whole time and didn't bother hiding the texts, which I could clearly read. Later that day he accidentally left his cell phone in my car and I read some of his text messages. Big mistake - I wanted to die. He is very much in love with her and she just told him she is meeting with a divorce lawyer to end her marriage.

All of this, led to a huge setback on Wed when he was supposed to come over and have dinner with us. He was a no show and later argued he had to work late on a presentation. When he finally showed up, I had been crying. All the lying and having OW be with him for 3 days had taken a toll on me. I left to avoid a fight, but when I came back he insisted on wanting to know what was wrong and I made the mistake of crying and telling him I was tired of his lies. I then refused to talk to him any further.

The following morning he texted to apologize for the dinner misunderstanding. He said that he likes how our friendship has been growing, and that he is starting to trust me again, but he sees I that I don't trust him since I called him a liar. He added he is not lying to me, but simply refuses to share certain things like details of his dating life because he knows it hurts me. He also said he feels I am snooping around his life and knows I want more than a friendship, but that he doesn't. He said he wants to have a non-confrontational relationship with me and that is step 1 for him. He added that he cares a lot about me and doesn't like to see me hurt, and that he is sad because he realizes he has no power to fix that. He finished by saying he desperately wants us to get along, that he misses his friend and knows it's not going to happen overnight and he wished we could share stuff with each other.

That same day he was supposed to go to a Father's day breakfast celebration at our daughter's pre-school. I had told him about it the previous week and handed a printed school flyer as a reminder a few days later. When I dropped our D off that morning, he again was a no-show. I decided not to call or text him to remind him. I just calmly gave him the present she had made for him when he came over that night. He got visibly upset and started crying. He said he had been so worried about me being upset the previous night that he totally forgot about the breakfast. I calmly asked if he thought this was somehow my fault. He replied no and left abruptly.

He called two hrs. later and asked why I hadn't called or texted once I got to the preschool to remind him. I calmly told him that I don't know his schedule, if he couldn't make it or just forgot. I added that I never call or text whenever he is a no show cause I don't want to nag or pressure him and did no differently that morning. He replied saying if I was a true friend I would have called since this was an important event. He asked if I did it as retaliation because I had been upset and had called him a liar the night before.

He again why I had accused him of lying and I finally confronted him on his PA with OW. He continued to deny it for the next 10 minutes until I confronted him with irrefutable evidence, at which point he became completely silent. I then told him that OW and his relationship with her was not my problem and they would both someday have to figure out how to explain their actions to their own children. I told him I was glad it was all out in the open and that I would not talk to him about OW again. I assured him that I would not expose him to anyone. I added I would continue working on my growth and changing myself and if his R with OW didn't work out and he decided he wants to work on our marriage hopefully I would still be waiting for him.

He continued defending himself saying there was nothing wrong with his actions because in his mind, he wasn't married to me anymore and reminded me he asked for the divorce in Jan. He was very angry and said our marriage should have ended many years ago - he should have never had children with me and that he had been in an abusive relationship with me for 13 years. I asked if there had been anything good in our marriage and he said no - I destroyed our relationship and any pain I may have been suffering in these last 6 months doesn't even compare to the pain he has felt for 13 yrs.

I told him I accepted my responsibility in the demise of our relationship, and that I have worked on changing and fixing my mistakes ever since he moved out and I hit my bottom. I added that I had also been unhappy for many years. He then said that if I thought a simple letter of apology from me would do it, I was very wrong (I had sent it when I started my recovery back in January). He added he doesn't believe in my change. It's all just an act to get him to come back and that he didn't think I was a good person.

I said I was sorry he felt that way, that I know I am a good person but that I have made many mistakes in my life - and that time would tell if my change is real or not. I then told him I realized he had not forgiven me and that he still holds a lot of resentment and anger towards me. Since I cannot control that, I would continue focusing on myself. That I have forgiven myself because I need to make myself happy and become a good example for my children and added that I sincerely hope he can someday find the way to forgiveness more as a gift for himself than for me.

At this point we had both calmed down and he responded that he knew he needed to somehow find forgiveness but was not there yet and that he didn't mean what he said about me not changing. He added he had even told OW how amazing I have been the last few months. He ended saying that he didn't know where to go from here, he was out of answers and also felt terrible about missing D's school event. I told him nobody expected him to have all the answers, that he should move on and make it up to D by having a great father's day on Sunday.

He finally added that the reason why he got so upset about missing D's event was that for the first time since he left it hit him that we are no longer a family and a team. He said if he had been living with us, I would have reminded him about the breakfast the night before and he would have not missed it, but that now he would have to figure all these things out alone. I kept my mouth shut and said nothing.

We said good night and I somehow felt relieved. All is now out in the open re. OW - I don't have to endure any more lies and I continue moving forward with my fixing. This evening we had a cordial phone conversation re. this weekend's logistics with the girls.

I ordered "Not Just Friends" and "Love Must Be Tough". I feel I need help now to learn to set healthy boundaries for myself and not continue enabling him to play family man and dad whenever he wants while having a bachelor lifestyle when it suits him. The preschool breakfast incident was the very first time I let him experience some of the consequences of our separation and his actions. I still want to save my marriage and improve our relationship, it's finding the right balance where I will need help.

Thanks for any input or advice anyone may have!

-----

M:40
H:40
D1:3.5 yrs. old
D2: 2.5 yrs. old
S1: Due Date 7/31/11

M: 13 yrs / together 19 yrs

EA: 11/10/10
PA: could have started as early as 11/10
ILYBNILWY: 12/20/10
Sep: 12/23/10
He asked for Divorce: 01/31/11, but has not filed yet

[dbmod]

Hi keep-

I only have a minute but I want to post to you. DR, and the two books you mentioned, especially Love Must Be Tough, will have different strategies for your situation. And you will likely get advice here that has conflicting strategies.

At this point in time if you take the hard line you are not likely to repair your marriage, and I want you to know that it carries that risk. It is what Michele calls the AFTER THE LAST RESORT technique. There are some things to try before that, that you do not appear to have done. It's called, THE LAST RESORT TECHNIQUE. It means pull back, go dark, with a deep shade of gray...it isn't pitch black.

Shirley Glass's book is great, and it's a good idea to read while you are gray. Keep posting here for ideas and support.

[keep_going]

Hi dbmod,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I may have not been clear re. setting limits and not enabling. What I have been doing these past 6 months was basically letting him come and go to my house w/o any visitation schedule or limits. I had told him this is his home and the doors are always open for him. I would cook dinner, make his favorite foods and make it so nice and pleasant every time he was here so he could see that we could change our sit. and have a great marriage and family.
and simply shows up when he wants, lets me feed him and hangs out like he still lives here (even goes to my room, lays down in my bed and starts texting OW and friends. He then leaves to go on dates or have a life.
And I am left here, not being able to leave because I I have the girls all the time.
Another thing he does is say he will come over and then doesn't - no call, no apologies. I have started to change that - no longer expecting him and if I decide to take the girls out I do and not wait for him.
For 4 months he never had the girls spend the night at his place. He now reluctantly takes them on a weekend night, but argues that he cannot on a worknight because he doesn't have a bed for them. I cannot find the logic in that and finally told him on Thu PM that he needs to figure that out - get a bed or get them to sleep on his bed.

He also plans his trips up North w/o any regards to my schedule - I don't blame him, since I have essentially taken care of the girls solo during all our separation.
That's what I mean by saying I let him play dad whenever it suits his schedule.

This is where I want to set healthy limits, but without anger. Come from a place of making things fair for both so that I can also GAL. He has and I have not had the freedom to do it (my mistake for enabling the sit.)

I feel I need to take action now, before our son is born - I know the first few months I will be very much sleep-deprived and not have time for anything else besides my newborn and two toddlers and I will need help.

At the same time, I want to continue working on establishing a friendship with him. He has said that's what he wants and it's the best for our children anyways regardless of the outcome of our relationship.

Does that sound like a good strategy at this point?

[dbmod]

^

[keep_going]

I've been gone for a while, but am back for some support. I have kept trying my 180s and GAL, but have not seen much progress. Since I confronted my husband, everything related to OW has become a trigger. Part has been self-induced, as I have kept checking out her facebook and instagram sites. (And she posts A LOT). So I have learned so many details of her life and things they do together - not helpful. I have now stopped that - I realize it is not helpful and just hurts ME.

My son was born on July 25th and H had expressed he wanted to be there with me during labor. Well, I have to say it was one of the most painful days of my life. He was there all right, but not present. I was induced - it was about a 12 hrs. process all-together. Of those 12 hrs., he slept for about 6 or 7 of them. And when awake, it was like having an acquaintance or friend there, not my husband. I did not make a scene or complain once to him - he will never know how much he hurt me that day...

Leading up to the birth of our son, he told me a couple of times that he was unsure "what to choose - if her or his family."

I of course got my hopes up, just to find out a week after the birth of our son that he had decided to choose her. He told me she left her husband at least a month earlier and he had been lying to me about her trying to still work on her marriage. He said they decided to pursue their relationship and that he was sorry he hurt me. He said he wished for me to be happy and that I would find someone who would love me for who I am - a very kind and sweet person. I told him calmly that it hurt me, but if he felt he needed to try that relationship, that I could not control him and he should go see if the grass is really greener on the other side.

I have continued trying my DB, with ups and downs. We've had bad arguments related to her and I have had setbacks, but I am still trying. they have happened when he has gone to visit her in Oakland (while I stay here to take care of my 3 kids alone).

The one thing that kept me hoping was the fact that he has not filed for divorce. Well... yesterday our real-estate agent (and good friend) called me and told me that he told her (it slipped), that he was waiting for me to go back to work after maternity leave to file for divorce so he could have more leverage negotiating.

This is one of the most painful things to me. I have told him repeatedly that I don't care about money (we have A LOT of financial problems right now) - all I care about is our relationship. But somehow he feels the need to have "negotiating leverage." It feels to me like he thinks I will try to take him to the cleaners or something should we divorce. It pains me to see that he could even think that of me and it pains me to see how cold and calculating he is about the whole divorce issue. I had hopes that maybe he had some doubts in his mind...

I feel like giving up today for sure...

M:40
H:40
D1:3.5 yrs. old
D2: 2.5 yrs. old
S1: 6 weeks old

M: 13 yrs / together 19 yrs

EA: 11/10/10
PA: could have started as early as 11/10
ILYBNILWY: 12/20/10
Sep: 12/23/10
He asked for Divorce: 01/31/11, but has not filed yet
H choses to pursue his relationship with OW openly - July 2011

[dbmod]

^

[~ kd ~]

What has to be the most frustrating thing is how the WAS seems to go about the destruction of an M and family, as though they are breaking up some highschool, summer romance...

While we DB for ourselves and most who come here at least initially want to stand for our Ms, you are in a fairly poor position to just sit and wait...

Now what the agent told you may or may not be true (not saying it's wrong, just be careful what you believe, regardless of whether the source is reliable)... until your H actually files, then he hasn't filed and it's not worth worrying about...

BUT... in your case, I'd have to say my opinion is consult an L as soon as possible to protect you and your kids! Let's just say that your H DOES file once you're off mat leave... until you talk to a L, you will have no real idea what the implications might be...

And as always, understand that if you start proceedings, you can always put them on the back burner...

[~¤DG¤~]

Hi KG-

I'm so sorry you are going through this. One thing I hope you realize is how strong you are. You remind me of myself in some ways, with the anger issues and finally hitting rock bottom. And deciding to fix yourself.
That takes a lot of courage, and I commend you for that.
I have been seeing a therapist for the past 8 months and have made remarkable progress. It sounds like you have also.
We all have set backs, they are perfectly normal.

Reading some of the stories on this board it amazes me how insensitive some WAS's can be. Your H is no exception.

Keep posting...you'll find a lot of support.

[keep_going]

Hi Kaffe Diem -
Thanks for the feedback and suggestion. Many people have told me the same re. consulting a L. I had refused to do so because I felt that I would be "betraying" my efforts to save my marriage (does that make any sense?). Plus I am terrified that if my H found out, he'll go ahead and file. But I know that I I owe it to my children and I will sleep better at night if I just know exactly where I would be standing should H proceed with the D. So I am setting up a consultation with a L this week...

Hi, DGurl -
Thanks for the support and words of encouragement. I realize that controlling my anger will be a life-long effort, very much so like an addiction and I will never stop working on it, no matter how many setbacks I have.

And unfortunately, I had another one this weekend. I am now trying to look out for specific triggers when I am with my H, but this one caught me off-guard and unprepared and I lost it. So we ended up having a huge argument.

It started when I told him I am planning on running a 10k on Oct. 1st (part of my GAL, although I obviously did not point it out to him), and that I would need him to take the kids that day. He responded he was planning to go up north to see OW that weekend and could not do it.

(We have a very loose visitation schedule he set up where if we had a time / date conflict, we treat it as a "first come, first serve" basis. I told him I asked first, but he refused to change his plans.)


I need to point out that getting to this situation is partly my fault because since he left I have had an open door policy with him when it comes to visiting the kids - he comes to our house whenever he wants and w/o previous notice. On weekends, he usually waits until I ask or until the weekend arrives to talk about a schedule as well.
My rationale for it, and part of the strategy I set up with my DB coach, has been that the more time he spends at our home and feels comfortable there, the better. Plus it's time that he is not in contact with OW.

But this "open door" policy has also led him to just come and go as he pleases. Since he left 8 months ago, the kids have spent the night at his place only 5 or 6 nights total. Those have been the only nights off I have had, while he has been free to travel or go out whenever he wants.

So when he said he would not change his plans on Oct. 1st, I really lost it. I not only raised my voice to tell him how selfish and unfair he was being, but also brought up a lot of the things that I should have not said. I brought up OW, his lies about her and our finances, how much he hurts me, etc, etc, etc... All the stuff I KNOW I should NOT bring up.

But the worst part is that our daughter was present and that really upset my H (as it should have). After he left I immediately sat her down and explained to her - in a way that a 3-year old would understand - that my getting upset at daddy was wrong and how sorry I was to hurt her and scare her. I reassured her that we were ok now and promised to try my very best so it would not happen again.

I am so disappointed and upset at myself for letting myself argue in front of her... Both H and I have always agreed that that behavior is simply not acceptable in our family. And to say that he was immensely upset at me is an understatement.

Besides, getting angry with him gave him yet another opportunity to remind me why he left, why he doesn't love me and why he is going to divorce me. He told me he is going to file as soon as I get back to work and we sell our townhome.

And so then I tried to convince him that I am working on changing, that my outburst was a setback, and started pleading, etc. All VERY UNATTRACTIVE and UNPRODUCTIVE.

Today when he came over I apologized to him for losing my cool and hurting him with what I said. I made him dinner (as I always do) and his mom stopped over to see the kids.

I was upbeat and happy thruout and was attentive with him when he talked and was supportive when he shared his worries about work (he is under a lot of work-related stress now.) We all had a pleasant evening.


The only bummer was that he did leave his phone on the table as we were finishing dinner, right next to me and a text pop-up from OW came in saying how much she loves him and how she can't wait until Thursday to see him (That's his birthday

And when he left, he said to his mom from the door "love you mom" and then turned to me and only waved in silence. ouch...

[keep_going]

Here is the email my H sent me after our fight on Saturday and my responses (in blue). In Re-reading this, I clearly see how angry and hurt I sound. I can't believe I blew it like this. I am so ashamed and embarrassed about my behavior, but sharing it here and being accountable for it is part of my recovery.

The truth is that I should have never responded to his email. No wonder he wants a divorce. I can't believe I have fallen so low

---

Hi,

I'll start by saying I'm still in a bit of shock right now. I sent a text earlier, but I was trying to wait until I stopped choking up before I wrote something more to you.

After reading your email, I am also shocked. There is sooo much we are just not in sync with and I hope that my responses can move us closer to an understanding. Please know that my email is coming from a place of GOODWILL and a desire to try to communicate better and resolve things and NOT from a place of anger.


I am very sorry that my comment was snide. I was responding to a comment that you made about me needing to be there.
I said "the girls need you" (which is true) NOT that "you needed to be there." It's not my place to give you orders or tell you what to do.

I know you didn't intend to be snide, but coming off the fact that 20 minutes earlier you got mad at me about spending time with the girls,
I want to clarify that I got mad 20 minutes earlier about a SCHEDULING issue, not about the AMOUNT of time you spend with the girls. The issue was that I asked you to take the kids on Oct. 1st, and you didn't want to change your plans, even though you were the one who established the "first come, first serve" system just a couple of weeks ago.

you have to admit it was NOT a stretch for me to think you were being snide to me. Whether you were or weren't, my comment was not appropriate, and I am truly sorry. What ensued from that one comment felt like a blitzkrieg to me. I was totally stunned, because I thought we were doing so well. My only conclusion is that something else tipped you off… seeing a text message (I did leave my phone on the table) or seeing a charge on my account that you weren't sure about? Whatever it was, It was about OW I'm sure because you jumped from spending time with the kids to "xxxing OW" in about two seconds flat.

What set me off is what always sets me off... you thinking the WORST of me. I have to admit that this is the single biggest trigger for me from you. It hurts me when you don't give me the benefit of the doubt.

I've been trying to avoid the subject of OW for awhile now. You said you didn't want to talk about it, and it only makes you angry. I tried to avoid it again today, but it's hard to listen to you blast me, make things up, not let me speak, and have to just sit there and take it.


I DO care what you think of me, and it hurts that you accuse me of so many things that aren't true or make assumptions about my relationship with her.
I don't make things up - I just go by what I have seen happen since Nov. 11TH. Believe me - I was in denial for MONTHS, and I defended you with a lot of people. But unfortunately, it is all there, on paper, in black and white and with plenty of actions from your part (and things you said directly to me) to corroborate what I refused to believe. But you think I have made some things up, and if so, I am sorry about it. So please, please tell me what it is I am making up so I don't repeat it again.

She is not the problem and she didn't do anything to you.
You are right - she is not the problem, but she IS sleeping with a man who happens to still be my husband and the father of my daughters and my newborn son.
So to me, she is IS doing something very, very hurtful to me and my children every day, with every call, every text, every kiss and every intimate moment you guys have together...I don't think it's too hard to understand how I feel, and unfortunately nothing you or she say will change the facts or the hurt you both are inflicting on both your families now.


The reality is that OW is NOT important. You and I xxxed this up, not her or any other woman I've dated the last 7 months.
I totally agree that we xxxed our relationship up and I have taken responsibility for my share all along and have been working on changing my wrongs since you left.

Whether or not you and I have a piece of paper that says we're divorced, the truth is that we are no longer together and I've made that very clear to you since February. I'm surprised every time you indicate that you think otherwise.
I take my marriage promise to you very seriously, but most importantly, my love for you is my priority - I really meant it when I said "for better or for worse" and I have been trying to work on giving our marriage and our family another shot, and I have been very clear to you about it all along, so I don't know why you are surprised every time.

I've never said anything to indicate that I wanted to get back together with you.
I guess I misunderstood when you said you were unsure about what to choose between OW and your family - I really thought I was part of that family too. Sorry I misunderstood you.

To be blunt, you're right, I don't feel bad about dating. It was my choice to put myself out there after we separated, and it was nice to be with people that made me feel attractive and gave me attention. I wish you could understand that.
I do understand that, or I would have not been trying to make you feel attractive, or give you love, attention and affection all this time.

I just happened to hit it off with one of those women.
Bad luck for me, I guess

Despite the fact that OW is irrelevant for us, please don't assume things about her or make things up in your own mind. I've avoided telling you this, because I didn't feel it was any of your business, but if you want to know the whole story… OW and her husband have been seeing other people since before OW and I started to date, and they are both aware of it. They've tried to work it out off an on, but neither of them really has strong emotional feelings for the other. They basically lived together and tried to have a nice household for their kids, but realized it wasn't the best option if they weren't in love with each other. They don't argue about it (in fact they never argue about much at all), and they actually both really like each other, and to be frank, that's the issue --- they are friends, nothing more and they parent well together. Her husband doesn't know about me specifically, but he does know there's someone else. OW also knows there is someone that he is seeing, but doesn't know her personally.
Sorry to be blunt about this as well, but all of this information is of no consolation to me - on the contrary. they both sound to me like people of less than outstanding moral integrity. If anything, all this just makes me sad for the example they are setting for their daughters about what integrity and honesty should be, how a woman should be treated and the self-respect she should have for herself. But I am sure you don't care about what I think of them and you will probably resent me for "judging" them.

I have chosen not to talk about my relationships to anyone except to a select few friends. You should know that my boss is not one of those select few friends, and he never will be.
Never mind that it wouldn't look too good for either you or OW professionally...

And neither is my mom or my siblings. To be fair, these aren't people that I talked about you to either when I first started dating you. When the time is appropriate, I will. For now, it's too early in the relationship. It doesn't make the relationship any less legitimate or mean I'm scared of people's opinions, it just means that I'm not interested in talking about my personal life when it's going through so many changes all at once. All of my closest friends know I'm dating, and most of them know about OW. If they don't, it's simply because it hasn't come up.
It makes sense.

You said that I disrespect you, and I'm sorry if I'm going about this wrong, but I don't know any other way.
I did expect you to go about it differently when you left - facing and dealing with our problems directly rather than running away and start dating not even a month after you left your family. I understand that trying with me is not an option for you at this point, so I can see how you wouldn't see any other way than how you have behaved so far.

I'm working my xxx off, coming over to see the girls and then sleeping… that's it. On occasion, I get to see a friend, but probably less than you do. I am thankful that you are accommodating on these occasions, but I certainly haven't abused your accommodations, and I definitely don't "treat you like xxx."

I have to disagree here... As you know, except for the less than half dozen times that you have had the kids sleep over with you in the last 8 months, I am a parent 24 /7 around here... So no, I have NOT had more time than you for friends, fancy dinners, or frequent trips and fancy hotel suites.

If I can be blunt, I don't feel bad for you about "working your xxx off" as it relates to your comment here. I have also been "working my xxx off" since you met me AND I have been a full-time parent not only when we were together, but also since you left.

I am also at peace knowing that I have been trying to save US money whenever possible. I have also seen you spending money, miles and points who knows how. (Cause as you said today, you DON'T want me to know how you spend YOUR money, so I don't have all the details here. But by you being so secretive and vague with me about it, you have to expect that I will wonder if you are hiding something from me.

And believer me - I have resisted this thought FOR MONTHS, but unfortunately for me I HAVE found out about expenses that do not relate directly to the well-being of our family and I find that very hurtful and disrespectful. So I don't know... maybe some people would consider some of this as treating me like xxx, but I understand that you don't agree with me.


I have been honest with you to a fault lately.
I believe there is a difference between being honest and being disrespectful. You are honest when you say you are going on a trip up north, but not when you say you are going on a business trip. And It is NOT ok to start talking to me so casually about OW in front of our children. As I explained to you, that to me is not honesty, so I am glad we talked about it and I hope you understand where I am coming from. I am still your wife, and if that doesn't mean anything to you anymore (which it seems that way), at least I hope the fact that I am a HUMAN BEING WITH FEELINGS should.

I'm sorry that I wasn't honest with you about dating early on, but I always thought you'd just get mad and I didn't want to make my life more miserable.
It saddens me that your whole motivation was not to make your life more miserable. You stated your position very clearly today - you have a right to be happy and you have also said it before - it's all about "Live 4 today" I apologize if it sounds judgmental to you, I am just being honest and calling it as I see it.

Guess what? Now that you know I'm dating, and now that you know all the details you say you don't want to hear but try so hard to figure out, my life IS miserable. And the truth is, we're separated and the details aren't really any of your business. I'm sorry to be so blunt.

I am trying my best to move forward in the manner that both YOU and I agreed to … to be loving, friendly parents to our beautiful kids. This means we have to avoid the topics that cause us to argue.
In my view, avoiding things is a HUGE part of what destroyed our marriage, and I see it as RUNNING AWAY.
I believe with all my heart that to be loving and friendly parents to our beautiful kids we need to learn to DEAL with our problems TOGETHER and find a way to talk about ALL topics in a non-confrontational way. Until we BOTH make an effort to do that, we will NEVER be successful. I hope someday you can agree with me on this and get on board with me to figure out how to get us there - not for the sake of our beautiful children, but for our own happiness


Yelling in front of the girls is not appropriate no matter how mad you are at me.
I TOTALLY AGREE. As I said in my text, I already started to fix this and have apologized to the girls. It will not happen again.

Today, you must have said "xxx" a half dozen times and then D heard you call me an xxx. What were you thinking? I mean, who does that? How do you rationalize hurting your kids like that?
I have not and will not rationalize my behavior today... I take full responsibility for it - it was WRONG.

If you want to believe my relationship with OW is about sex that's your opinion, but keep it to yourself and please don't talk about it in front of the girls.
I know perfectly well it's not just about sex. Believe me - I wish it was...

I can just see D going to school on Monday and saying "Mommy says Daddy xxx OW". Last week, D asked me why you were mad and asked if you needed a nap.

With all my heart, I believe that the kids are better off without us together. They don't deserve to see people fighting.
I agree that they are better off without the relationship we had. I DON'T WANT THAT FOR THEM - I WANT A NEW RELATIONSHIP WHERE WE SHOW HOW WE LOVE EACH OTHER AND CARE FOR EACH OTHER.

They deserve to see examples of people that love each other and care for each other. As you know, yelling in front of the girls was the last straw for me in December, and I'm mad at myself that I let you keep going today. Unfortunately, I had this overwhelming need to tell you you were wrong and correct your lies and innuendos. So I stuck around and tried to get an honest word in, when I should have just left and saved the girls from experiencing that.
As I said before, I am sorry too that they experienced that as well.

If you want to move forward with the divorce, I will do as you wish.
? I don't know what info you have to try to put this on me. I will repeat it again - I DON'T WANT A DIVORCE - NOW OR IN THE FUTURE.

As I've said to you on numerous occasions, I wanted to work together with you financially until you felt it was appropriate to head back to work. I thought that is what you wanted to do too, so now I'm confused
??? We had never discussed working together financially until I got back to work RELATED TO A DIVORCE...I am totally lost here... In fact, today was the first time I got any sense that your motivation and the actions you are taking regarding our finances relate to moving forward with the divorce.
Since January 31st, you had not brought up or used the actual word divorce with me. You have been clear about not being in love with me and not wanting a relationship with me, but I thought we were still both talking about a separation while you tried your relationship with OW. too bad for me, really, really bad

I'm not putting pressure on you. You need to make the decision about when you go back to work.
Don't worry - I feel no pressure, I know it is my decision, but thank you.

Knowing that you say things you don't mean when you're angry, I'd like to ask you to think about it and get back to me about whether you want to move forward with the divorce... or wait until we sell the house and you go back to work.
Again - please don't try to put it on me - I don't want a divorce.

Either way is fine, and I promise to do my best to keep helping you get through this critical time with S, and to keep being there for the girls. I know they need the attention.

I'll leave this up to you.
Nope - this is not up to me. If it was up to me, things would be very different and you know that