well, it's not so much what I'm doing "these days", it's what I've been doing for the past few years starting in 2006 and started "being myself" again, which included (and still includes):
- left the big boring job I had grown to hate and took my freelance consulting business full-time (I'm a software engineer and started working for startups and small companies all over the country, specializing in building teams, getting them up and running, and trying to help the leadership figure out how to make money...and it's been a total blast)
- got back to lifting weights and running...been in the best shape of my life since my early 20s
- I was an amateur, occasionally paid (not often enough!) musician and guitar junky when I got married, and aside from playing around the house and with the kids, hadn't done much...so I picked up my guitars again, started studying music seriously again, and playing a lot and writing music
- when i start feeling a little shaky about things and feel like I'm in danger of reverting to past bad behavior, or just when I need to figure things out, I still see our previous MC by myself, which has been crucial for me
The new career path has meant I can work from home most of the time, with occasional interesting travel, which has been cool. I challenged the kids to quit playing so much Guitar Hero and just learn an instrument, and to my surprise they both did, so I've gotten to spend time just jamming with them at home. My oldest discovered he had a great singing voice so he's in college majoring in Music, and also plays and sings at events, weddings, etc., all over our area. Was finally able to always be at the kids activities and sports, every time, and have been the one who took them to school, picked them up, etc...at least until they start/started driving. With it being just me and my younger son at home, with the older one away at college most of the year, he and I have gotten closer with all the time together...he's my gym buddy and my fishing buddy, and being at home all the time, while occasionally challenging in terms of making him see that I DO have to work lol, there have been a lot of times where we've just been able to spontaneously hang out for a while, either just me and him or sometimes with his friends too, all of which has been super cool for me.
So there's been a tremendous amount of good going on, and that I've been able to do, that occurred as a result of going through what we went through, and that I may not have done otherwise...sadly, the only thing that hasn't really improved has been the marriage; the rest of my life has really been better than I ever thought possible when W first dropped the bomb in 2006.
And that's the thing...rather than being devastated because she "was my life", I am simply very sad and very disappointed that things are not working out, but things have changed enough for me that I can get through it without being crushed. Oh, I have moments where i get moody about it, probably always will because this marriage has always been important to me. But, really, I think I've been doing the best I can with the way things are and if she doesn't like me now, so be it.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
Great! Now the only thing missing is to join a rock band! That's what I did, lol. And I discovered it is IMPOSSIBLE to be unhappy when you are drumming Highway to Hell!
Oh man...I LOVE playing H2H and Back in Black...in fact, those two are part of my daily warm up...play the fun stuff before working on the difficult stuff.
It's also impossible to be unhappy when you crank up the Marshall with heavy crunch and bang out power chords
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
wow. I think you're right, TL... DB was great for me (as well as the great coach I had in you) helping me learn to be myself again, get stronger, become healthier. The going dark and other strategies gives a M time to see if it can survive by avoiding some stupid mistakes like begging and demanding. DB is good stuff. It can't save every M.
Curious, TL, what would you tell a new person on the boards, looking for help, hoping to save there M?
OT - good stuff. You make a strong point. What do you think now, after TL's response?
M45, W45,S15, D10, Bomb 10/3/06, Moved back in 11/6/06, finally ILY 9/07 last thread
Haha LN...well it would be really cool if my marriage didn't tank
As far as saving marriages...if I knew how to do that, I would've done it.
Like you said...DB works, so do that...ideally, don't wait until your marriage [censored] and your kids are hurting to do it. Because, again, I think DB can work because it's essentially taking the character and principles of what it means to be a decent, reasonably well-adjusted and strong individual and adapting it specifically to a situation where one or both spouses has failed to do that. And that's great because, no matter what happens, you're still probably better off. So what I'm trying to tell and telegraph to my kids is, Become an independent strong person with good values and a life, be realistic about your strengths and weaknesses, then when you meet someone who cares for you and wants the same general kind of life, you probably have a good shot. Make sure your values line up, you can work together on money, raising kids, etc. You're still going to screw up, make mistakes, and get things wrong, so to bridge all those gaps you still need to be with someone who understands the part of love that is a commitment, about the need to forgive, and the need to admit when you're wrong.
It's what premarital counseling is supposed to help clue you in on. And if you're too young, or haven't gotten to the point that you really know what you need and want, then you're probably not ready.
This will probably be taken the wrong way, but I don't think any individual can save a marriage any more than someone can "make" a flower grow. I think we can create the right environment, give it everything it needs to grow, protect it as much as is reasonable and realistic from threats.
The way we do that is by having a life first, learning how to make the right decisions without getting carried away by our emotions. I mean, romance is a fun and important part, I think, of a strong relationship/marriage...but it's not some kind of metaphysical reality that insures that "two people were meant to be together." And, of course, we have to make the best choices from the beginning...especially when it comes to dating people and even considering getting into a relationship with someone.
As I get older, not necessarily wiser, and especially as i watch my older son and his friends date, and some of my friends do the same thing, I see a lot of people choosing to be with others for what I would consider the wrong reasons...convenience, insecurity, apathy, etc. We tend to be really strongly driven by insecurities and other things that, especially in the US where our culture is so narcissistic to the point of discouraging rational introspection (as per Socrates: Know thyself) in order to cultivate an almost Pavlovian response to buy something (a pill, an iPad, a car, whatever) to make us just feel better, that it takes us forever to just grow up. A writer I like a lot, Thomas McGuane, says that we in the US attempt to prolong adolescence to the threshold of senility. We make too many of our decisions like teenagers.
But in the end it's the choices we make on a daily basis and our ability to be able to look and think critically about those choices. I think people who are truly successful in marriage simply GAL and get strong in themselves first, and then they are ready to commit. The problem with many or most of us in our troubled marriages is that one or both spouses haven't done that, and haven't learned to be realistic about themselves, what they really want, and whether they're really ready for something so important as committing to another person for life and creating a stable, healthy relationship where not only the marriage but a family can grow and thrive in love, security, patience, kindness, etc., just like a flower growing and thriving in the right environment. No guarantees, of course, because we're human beings and really make choices day by day, even sometimes minute by minute, that can throw a wrench in the works...but, just like with our pretty flower, if the right environment can be created first, then whatever we put there has the best chance there is of becoming what it is supposed to be.
In the end, it's not magic. It's about growing up and becoming a strong individual who can think for oneself, and committing to another strong individual that has your best interests at heart and can grow with you.
Since most of us didn't do that...or didn't keep doing it, for some reason, we find ourselves here. I certainly have made my share of mistakes but think that over the last few years I've done a fairly decent job of whipping myself into shape. Unfortunately, my wife has not responded to it like I hoped she would. When I first came here in 06, on the heels of her ending her long-term adulterous relationship, I was a total wreck mentally and emotionally. The stuff I learned here, which was pretty consistent with what my counselor was telling me, got me headed in the right direction. And it was hard as hell at first. Scary too because everything I was was wrapped up in her acceptance or rejection of me...and our R didn't start like that, but that was where I ended up. With the help of this place, friends, family, and my counselor, I feel very fortunate to at least be in the frame of mind I'm in these days...and also very thankful that I was able to get back on track with the kids in '06 and share so many great moments and times with them, experiences I, and we, would never have had if I remained on the emotional rollercoaster I was on. I mean...reading over this I don't mean to make it sound easy and that I'm totally together. The breakup of this family is breaking my heart. My initial post was made at 3am or something because I couldn't sleep and it was wearing on me. However, I haven't been reduced to a quivering mass of jello this time, either. I'm really sad about this, and have all the usual thoughts of it being unfair, etc. But in the end, Lord willing and the creeks don't rise, I have plenty of good years ahead, I have good relationships with my sons, and I still need and want to be there for them as they finish their education and move forward in life.
The best part, though, is that I have a clear conscience. I know I worked for and wanted the right things, and at least did the best I knew how to do in order to get it. That wasn't totally the case when I came here in 06, but it's made a huge difference in my personal strength and peace of mind since then.
It's never wrong, or the wrong time, to do the right thing, and that has made a huge difference for me personally.
This ended up being really long...sorry...that's one thing I always did with this board...get everything out of my head during those weeks I wasn't seeing my C
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
Great post about what DBing is really about. You definitely seem to get it, but you don't seem to be applying it to a big part of your life.
You wrote: "Things were better so I tried to engage her but it just didn't work, so I pretty much ignored her and went on autopilot in our life, as she did. Busy with work and kids' activities, it was easy. Then, of course, the same old fights returned. " You explain how she isn't part of your life. You state clearly that you are being totally passive at this point. You are letting your M die.
So, while you have made great strides in other parts of your life, you have not changed how you react and interact with your significant other. You will continue to have those same old fight with anyone you are with until you change yourself. Trust me. My old MC told me that and it is very, very, very true. Changing partners doesn't change the issues until the old issues are dealt with.
SOOOOOO, you may as well try to work out a new way to live and interact with a significant other while W is still around. While you have CLEARLY made great strides in terms of your personal strength and happiness, it doesn't seem that you've done much work on the R stuff. Why waste the opportunity to work through some of it??? You may very well not save your M. But, you WILL have completed some important work that you need to do in any case. May as well start getting it out of the way :-)
From your brief comments here, you seem to be being passive aggressive, part of which is being very withholding. I can't imagine why W would change her mind under such circumstances. And resorting to being passive aggressive as a coping mechanism will damn any future Rs. Sooooo, again, maybe time to work on your actions/choices now. You can't have the same old fights, you can't have the same old R, if YOU change.
Now, I agree, that you changing won't magically fix your M, but maybe it gives it a chance. More important, as you recognize, it will help you be a happier, stronger, more complete person. That is what really matters.
I don't get the "I'll spend my summer living in an uncomfortable situation, resenting a lot of it, and do nothing but watch the last tendrils of my M wither and die," attitude. What is this doing for you? Why do you want to do things like that? I don't mean these as rhetorical questions, I really am not getting it.
If you are convinced that W will file in the Fall, then why don't you simply file now? Why treat yourself with such little compassion or respect? Why not set some self-respecting boundaries? Why not tell her you love her? Why not shake things up? "W, I love you and I'd like our M to work. But, this M death watch doesn't work for me. I'm planning to file sooner rather than later, though I'd love to instead take your to Retrouvaille. For your sake, for my sake, for our sake, for the kids, I'd be up for seeing if that gets us to a different place. But, the M death watch just isn't for me. I want out or movement toward exploring whether we could have a great, vibrant, fulfilling passionate M that really works for us both."
Have you read PM by the way? If not, I think it would be a HUGE helpful book for you, regardless of what you do with W or want from W or what happens to your M. It is one of those books that is about making YOU a more complete person and therefore a better romantic partner capable of much deeper intimacy and greater compassion. Good stuff no matter what. Maybe read it and then see what you think about your current passive M death watch?
It isn't a breezy read like 5LL and it is much denser than DB, but I think you'd find it to be very useful stuff.
And, finally, and probably most important, join a band
