18 Wheels and a Dozen Roses

[AJM80]

Erg. I am seriously so, so frustrated. H just left. I asked him earlier if we could talk. He wanted to watch a show. He seriously sat and watched a tv show. When I laughed at that and said something (nicely) he said, really, you wanted to talk? (No, I just brought it up for the hell of it, not because real life matters.) After the show, near the time his train was, I said, can we just talk now, can you take the next train?

h:No. The kids will be up soon and I'd really rather just talk when I come on Wednesday. (some other calm convo took place here - I did tell him that rationally I realized he cares, but the lack of emotion he shows (@the kids/moving away/etc) is kind of hard to deal with/hurtful) I'll plan on staying later and we can talk after they go to sleep.

I said, what do you want to discuss, just so we're on the same page. (yes, I feel that we need to talk, but I am not trying to force everything down his throat/blindside him. We can start with what he says. If he keeps avoiding any convo, I'll just do what I think I need to without regard for his schedule/feelings or scream at him....)

h:The schedule for the next few months, then the plan after that.

Ok, but I see myself as having limited options for the after that part, so please consider that and let me know if you have any suggestions. (we'd briefly talked the other night that $ would be tight to stay here and I'd welcome any thoughts he had)

h:Left, asked me where the trash can was in the kitchen, and said goodbye. threw away his trash from the kitchen counter before he went...that was big - he'd always left takeaway contairs, etc out on the counter and never saw them.

So now what? I'm so annoyed. I know a tv show was not more important to him than his family and that he was just avoiding things.

Seriously, my hands are shaking (it could be because it is freezing outside today). Am I stinking at DBing? We had a nice visit today - he'd repaired my necklace for mothers day (was behind on that - I let him know a quick fix place last week and he got them to do it yesterday), took a walk, played with the kids, he took D out and I stayed in and took a nap with son, lunch, playtime, some talking about general stuff. He's seeking me out, trying to come up with news items of interest, etc. He's leaving the kids alone in the living room to come talk to me in the kitchen. He rushed to get the kids ready so they could come with me on my walk this morning (I was going without them, but he asked if they could come too).

Should I just be happy with that and back off? I feel like time is slipping away, he moved out 7 months ago, cheated a year ago (May 30th - does Hallmark make a card for that?).

The lease runs another 3 months, plus a week or two. My dad would move us back at the start of Aug. With vacation and time with family, we'll probably be gone 4-5 weeks of those months. My landlady will probably ask me to let her know about the lease by the 7/1 rent check, so she has 2 months to market the apartment.

I'd love to stay here. I'd love to have my kids see their dad and hopefully have us work out some sort of long term monogamous relationship instead of a divorce. BUT, not at any cost. Not for my financial (spending money I do not have) or mental (cutting out all activities and living in a crappy 1 bedroom apartment to cut costs) health. Neither of those things help me or the kids.

So now what? Do I go dark and let him stew in it all? Do I keep things light, happy (send my usual kid pics and updates between now and weds)?

Song of the day, in a nod to Abbey - I Don't Know How to Love Him (from JC Superstar) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXdNEh97478&feature=related

[AJM80]

Haha - it will be a no to going totally dark..H had mentioned an article of interest to both of us. I read it and wrote a very brief note agreeing with his opinion. He wrote back and said it was all hype. Then wrote another email with a headline about another issue we discussed. I wrote a quick email back confirming he'd found the article I was referring to and let him know that D was doing something silly.

I cannot help but feel this casual conversation both helps and hurts my situation.

[OnMyWay]

I'd love to stay here. I'd love to have my kids see their dad and hopefully have us work out some sort of long term monogamous relationship instead of a divorce. BUT, not at any cost. Not for my financial (spending money I do not have) or mental (cutting out all activities and living in a crappy 1 bedroom apartment to cut costs) health. Neither of those things help me or the kids.

I'd tell him exactly this. This is honest, how you feel, straight to the point, and completely reasonable.

Consider copying and pasting this into an email and send it to him. You wouldn't be putting him in any position where he needs to take action (which he obviously wants to avoid). It leaves the door open, yet sets clear boundaries as to what needs to happen. I like it.

[AJM80]

Thanks! He actually called tonight to let me know the name of a friend's new baby and to ask how the kids were (as if they'd been sick or something..D has been crying for him lately, so that may be why he asked). D wasn't interested in talking, so I gave him a quick update and said bye/had her say bye.

I think the upcoming vacations will be good for all of us. I will plan on keeping my comments Weds pretty much to what I said above. If he's pushing for us to stay here, I do want to know if OW would be a part of the time he spends with kids and what the financial plan would be. Otherwise, whatever, it's his life. A week from now I will start 2 weeks of family visiting/travelling and minimal contact. I'll have to see if I can refrain from sending pics/updates.

[sparks14]

AJ - I just caught back up with your sitch. It sure sounds like things are improving between you and H. I read the list of things your H is doing for and around you and feel envious.

I wouldn't sweat that the talk did not happen on Sunday. I know it seems like he dismissed it for a tv show, but in the end, he was just not ready to have "the talk". I am sure it is stressing him out as much as it is you.

I like how you have been approaching the financial matters regarding a potential move versus staying. You are giving your H all of the info and allowing him to digest it all. This does not force him into anything but also gives him all of the info he needs to make a decision that is best for him.

Hope you are able to have the serious conversation tomorrow. I look forward to hearing about it.

Take care!

[AJM80]

OK, so day 2 of min contact with H - nada today from either of us. Kids and I went to park, class, good stuff today.

Also logging food/exercise at a free site I found. WE'll see if I keep that up through vacation, but so far I like it and it's helping me not to overeat out of boredom/solitude post kids going to bed.

So, good calm things here.

[AJM80]

Ok, I was good and didn't do any random texts last night or this morning. I've got to start weaning myself off our friendship and detaching more. He still has way too much power to hurt me - I'm ok with being vulnerable and open, but I think I may be too isolated lately.

I keep falling into a (bad? I think) habit of pausing my life to let the settle a little more. I don't want my D and I to make a bunch of new friends that we'll just leave in a few months. But I'm also not ready to just pack up and leave either.

If you pray, pray for me tonight. I don't know if the 180 is to sit and listen to him or to be very clear about what I want (seems like this could be controlling, even in the general language I used above?)

[JustStunned]

AJM80, I will pray for you.

IMO, do both, listen and be heard. Simply stating what you need and want factually in a non confrontational manner is not controlling.

Having expectations and attempting to steer the outcome to expectations is controlling.

Control yourself; allow him to do the same.

[AJM80]

H came over tonight, we went to dinner since landlady would be around to do moveout review on neighbors. Avoiding her questions and keeping time private. H was able to have a relationship convo for about an hour.

I honestly have terrible recall on this, so bear with me. I started out by giving him an opportunity to set some guidelines on the convo. I asked if he was seeing anyone and quickly clarified that I meant a psych or talking to a friend, etc. He said, no - that it felt sort of bipolar - sometimes he'd be really consumed by it all and the thought of us leaving/new financial situation and in general he felt like he was doing ok.

I said that I was happy with how we'd been getting along and he agreed. He asked how I was holding up. I said I wanted him to be happy, the kids to be happy, and I'd decided I was going to be happy. That said, I refuse to ever be cheated on again. However, I really struggle with the kid side of things. Some days there are moments when it is hard, when D says something or I just have a trigger. I also said, I worry about having someone else raise our children with me, and not ending up with someone with issues/weirdo/etc. He agreed and said men like my BIL (an amazing step father) are few and far between.

He said sometimes he wonders about asking me to go to more counseling and see if we can patch something together for the kids. But that he struggles with what remnants of our relationship would look like. And he repeated that while he feels that I am a good, good person, we had issues before this happened (later, I said I felt like our issues were very confusing and that I felt like he'd made a lot of conflicting statements and had rewritten history some. Not that I didn't validate his feelings/emotions, but that it was very unclear to me. He said maybe he had rewritten history, but that he had definitely been unhappy for a long time. I asked if he knew when he had been happy and he hedged, but thought he'd been happy when D was born)

I said I didn't know how I felt about him/wasn't sure who he was. He expressed confusion about this - I kind of said I didn't know if he'd been faking the good person I thought I had married with who he is being now. But I didn't say it that bluntly. I also asked if he was still seeing the girl. He said yes. Long pause. I simply said, I'm really disappointed by that. He said, I know. He then said, I shouldn't say this to you, it's not relevant to the conversation/it's a lot to put on you, but "I've been trying to figure out how to end it with her. It's not like I love her and sometimes I really hate her." I let the dust on that settle and he said again, well, not that that relates to what we are discussing. I said, well, for what it's worth, some of the things I've read say that is pretty normal, to feel that way. I said my concern is that I would say something negative (like call her a prostitute) about her/him to the kids, and that I didn't like that potential flaw in myself.

[AJM80]

Ok, I had to hit enter because I was afraid I would lose what I'd spent so long typing.

He's been seeing this girl for a year - that makes me angry in a weird way...like, fine, you go do what you want buddy.

He said he felt horrified at the thought of us moving away.
I said at one point that I was happy with how we were interacting, that it was giving us some time to just be happy and enjoy the kids, but that I thought it was also isolating us from the pain/reality of the reality of our situation.

I think we left it as talking more on friday. He's trying to figure out if he can come up with another 500 a month to keep us around. I said, gently, that it might not be enough. I reminded him that if we D, I'd have to pay for insurance and other things. He freaked a little and said, I'm not ready for that/that's in the future. I brought it back to saying, look, these are things I have to think about before making a decision to stay or go. He asked if he was correct that I was leaning towards moving w/parents and I said yes, I struggle with it, but it kind of seems like the way it is going.

A good friend that I spoke to right after said, I have trouble believing him about breaking up with her. That was a good point. She said, you cannot change him and I want you to be honest about what you want and deserve. If you want counselling, that's ok, but be honest with yourself about what you're dealing with. And she said, ignore OW - this is about you and him (this is an unmarried accountant friend, not a DBer)