She calls you, and lets you know when he is at a gig. I see her trying?
Is she blowing smoke up your kilt?
Do you have good reason to belive she is?
Good reason?
Because outright accusing her of still contacting him without any proof, and you look like some paranoid control freak.
You know, there might be some times when she doesn't tell you he was at a gig, to avoid the obvious discomfort it creates in you and really probally because she doesn't want to deal with it.
I agree don't be naive, if she is out 6 hours past a gig, and has condom wrappers in her purse, don't bury your head in the sand.
But don't be insisting that the other guy is still around when she is trying to prove otherwsie.
Denver, I have to say that my sitch and yours are really similar in that they are so damn emotionally and mentally confusing. Since I'm so new, my story hasn't been cleared yet, but hopefully you can take a look once it gets cleared for posting.
I feel your pain re: any contact with OM. My W had an EA with a fellow grad student who is much older than her (and me), basically stemmed from her confiding in him that she was considering divorcing me because she knew he had been through a messy divorce himself. W confessed that he kissed her one night when she had been crying and upset over things with me. I found out, and she swears up and down that she told him she couldn't have any contact with him beyond school related stuff...but they have a class together and since the program is so small they regularly have to interact, usually at least twice a week. My only solace is that there are always other people there, and her other friends know we are trying to work things out. Unfortunately, I know that he is still pursuing her/flirting with her (through email and text mostly...snooping on my part, but I needed to know).
So, IMO, I think any contact with OM can be detrimental, especially because he wants her for himself. Again referring to where I am, I don't care if he did honestly treat her as a friend with advice and that sort of thing. Once the relationship crossed that line, anything he said and any advice he gave becomes incredibly suspect.
I have to agree with Jack's post above though...if your W wasn't telling you anything at all, then I'd be worried. In a situation where you know for a fact there is still contact with OM, it really come down to where you are on forgiveness. I know for me, I made the conscious decision to forgive W almost immediately because I knew that my emotional unavailability drove her to confide in someone else. Not excusing what she did, but I'm saying I understand why it happened and my role in it. From there, it's rebuilding the trust that was broken. I have been asking when I have definite knowledge of some kind of communication, but other than that, I've had a painful couple of weeks of learning to let go of my suspicions...it's really the only way to concentrate on what I need to work on in myself to make things right.
Hope that helps, and I also wanted to say that your story has been one of the most inspirational I've read so far. Stay strong man, I'm pulling for ya.
Hi all. I have updates, but just haven't had the time to put them down. Work has been pretty busy. Hopefully in the coming days.
NE - I would be happy to take a look at your sitch as soon as I have a chance to spend some time here. In the meantime, seek out 2Stepboogie... I'm sure he'd be happy to give you his 2 cents.
BITS Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Denver, hope all is going ok for you. Haven't seen you on in a while.
BITS M: 35 W: 27 T 7.5 years M 5 years No kids My EA: 3/08 Her EA: 1/11, discovered 3/11 (ongoing?) ILYBINILY, D mentioned 3/8/11 W at parents house: 4/16/11
Thanks NE. I haven't been on in a while. I have been busy at work and kind of need a break.
Quick update. I don't feel like going into specifics. W has continued to pull back. She says that she is not ready to commit to me or anyone right now. Says that she needs to decide to commit to M on her own and not bc it is what her family or I want her to do. Apparently, she is feeling pressure to reconcile with me from her family. She does say that she enjoys spending time with me, but that it feels weird. I don't really know what to do.
When I asked her what she wants me to do, she told me that she just wants me to just be patient... that things are not going to happen on my timeline. Where have I heard that before? When I asked her if she wants me to just walk away, she told me, 'that would say a lot about you and your feelings'. She told me that I need to realize that she never had intentions of ever trying to work things out, that she never thought that I would try so hard to fix things. That my changes, which she repeatedly acknowledges, took her by surprise. That I need to realize that she was 'dating' someone. That 'this' isn't going to happen overnight. She also admits to having some of the feelings of anger and resentment that she had toward me when she left... 'although not as bad'.
Some positives comments that W has made: She commented about a couple of things that my mom did decorate around our house when she was visiting. W said that she was 'annoyed' that my mom had done some of the things she did. W asked me, jokingly, if I was going to replace some carpet in our house. There have been other small, passing comments that W has made that refer to us having a future together. But then again, she is admittedly confused.
She is having contact with OM at this point. Mostly phone conversations, but she did have him over for dinner last night. She was very upfront about it. Said it was bc his father is dying and wants to be a friend to him. But she has also admitted that she is having a difficult time 'just dropping him' when he has been so good to her and just bc 'you decided to get your your sh!t together.' She says in many ways, she feels that isn't fair. She also asked me what I thought would happen if she rushed back into committing to the M and moving home and still had 'feelings' for OM. When I told her that I didn't really know, she told me that she didn't think that it would be good. I don't know what she intends to do with these 'feelings' or how she thinks continuing contact with OM is going to resolve that, but maybe she is just processing her feelings like she says that she needs to do. Whatever. I can't control what she does or how she 'processes' her feelings.
I asked her how she sees things moving forward... she says that she doesn't know. That she just needs time and thinks that things will 'sort themselves out'. I have absolutely no idea how that is going to work, but again, whatever.
Pretty clear that W is extremely confused. But she is also cake eating to an extent. I know that Jack3beans may disagree that what she is doing is cake eating bc she is being upfront about things, but it sure seems like all she is doing is cake eating knowing that she has the power to do it.
Things are beginning to take a serious emotional toll on me. It is probably obvious from the tone of this post. I don't think that I should continue to be crucified for my past f*ckups. I can handle being patient with her confusion, but don't know if I can if she continues to have contact with OM. I should say that I trust that she is not having any kind of physical R with OM at this point. Say what you want, but I know my W. Besides, she is being truthful about the contact that she is having with him and has been brutality honest about their R when they were 'dating'. I have no reason not to trust her at this point. But I simply don't see how she and I can get to the point of true reconcillation until OM is out of the picture for good.
Lastly, she decided a couple of weeks ago that she was not going to move back into the house when her current lease expires at the end of May. She said that she didn't think that it would be smart for us for her to move back in when she is still confused. I agreed. She said that she was going to find a new, cheaper, place that would give her a month to month lease. Her current place is way out of her financial means. So, I was a tiny bit encouraged tonight when she told me that she is renewing her lease with the current place that she cannot afford. It will be on a month to month basis. I guess I find this encouraging bc she knows that she can't afford it, yet she is choosing to stay there for the time being. Probably mind reading here, but I think that it is bc she has an idea that ultimately she is going to move back home. But that she just needs a little more time like she says. It would make sense that she doesn't want to go through the hassle of finding another place and moving all of her stuff if that's what she ultimately intends to do. At least that is what I hope. But I could be wrong. Obviously I was wrong about where things were heading with us 3 weeks ago. Guess we'll see.
BITS Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Denver, Your frustration and aggravation is completely normal. Don't fell bad about feeling that way. It does seem to me also that she is kind of sitting the fence to your detriment. I guess only you can decide how long you are willing to let that continue. Not to mention, the two of you were moving pretty fast toward something, so you have to expect she is going to pull back a bit. Only you know how long you are willing to put up with this. Only you.
As for the lease thing, don't worry about this. You are going to set yourself up for a fall again if you try to use your logic and reason with her decisions. I did the same thing back in December. I heard my W had to move out of her place and I got all excited. I heard she had no where to go and I thought this might mean she was coming home. I was wrong and I was devastated. Don't set yourself up like that. OK?
I wish I had some cool words of wisdom, but I don't. I have pretty much left the forum because I can no longer visit my sitch night after night. It is just too much. I posted an update tonight for the first time in a week. I too am very, very emotionally tired. There is a part of me that wants to blow the whole thing up with some stupid action just so that it can all be "really over." Today, it was 240 days since she moved out. I am starting to forget what it was like to have her here. Life without her is becoming the norm and it scares the sh*t out of me. Because if it is happening to me as the LBS, you know it is happening to her in a bigger and more profound way as the WAS. I believe my journey is coming to an end. But, you have some much more to fight for. Don't give up. Not yet. You and 2step are both dealing with WAS's that are confused. That means there is still hope. My WAS is not confused. She knows what she wants and she is going to get it.
Take care!
FOBD
Me: 39 W: 36 T: 15 yrs M: 9 yrs S: 09/10
So you can get on with your search, baby And I can get on with mine And maybe someday we will find, That it wasn't really wasted time...
I assume from your name that you are somewhere near Denver. Why not book some time with Michelle Weiner-Davis? I've heard that she is absolutely fabulous.
Your wife is waiting for Cupid to hit her with an arrow, or for the stars to align, or some other outside force to grab her and tell her what she wants in life. She needs to spend some time in a positive structured way to look inward and see what she wants. Love doesn't come from the outside. It is a decision. Waiting around for a decision to happen to you is not the way it works.
Of course, I recommend Retrouvaille. But I know your wife works weekends and won't give up a weekend for something else.
My husband and I went to a Retro meeting this past weekend because we both know that we are slipping back into roommate status. And no, the path of our interaction there was not natural. We neither could or would have had that conversation by ourselves. We were led to the topic by the leaders of the group. And it was a good bonding experience. Afterwards, we felt better about ourselves.
Marriage is a lifelong commitment. This won't be the only hard time. It's important to find a way of dealing with the problems that works for you. Waiting for them to just go away isn't it.
Your wife is waiting for Cupid to hit her with an arrow, or for the stars to align, or some other outside force to grab her and tell her what she wants in life. She needs to spend some time in a positive structured way to look inward and see what she wants. Love doesn't come from the outside. It is a decision. Waiting around for a decision to happen to you is not the way it works.
I completely agree, but unfortunately, she cannot make such an important choice while still under the emotional (and even physiological) influence of another man. And even Retrouvaille (which I heartily recommend!) won't take a couple when there is still an active affair going on.
You're in a tough spot, Denver, and I can't tell you what to do. I would, however, encourage you to STOP assuming that your wife is telling you the truth. I've followed your entire sitch, and she has not been honest with you pretty much the whole way. Just because she fesses up to some contact with OM, doesn't mean she's "being completely honest." In fact, nearly every person in affairs admits, when confronted, to some level of contact that's LESS than what's actually going on ("just friends" = EA, EA = PA, etc.). You need to base your decision with the premise that she's entangled in an affair with this man, and decide accordingly.
I'm sorry, but that's the way I see it. I'm sorry, but I've really grown to like and respect you, and the way you've fought for your marriage and your family, and your wife makes me angry -- angry FOR YOU. She's still asking you to jump thru hoops (change the carpet???), and WITHOUT any commitment from her!!
Finally, this:
Quote:
She also asked me what I thought would happen if she rushed back into committing to the M and moving home and still had 'feelings' for OM.
I think my answer would have been:
"I'd be fine with that; I'm not asking you to shut off your FEELINGS -- that's going to take awhile, many, many months. I'm asking you to shut off your CONTACT. Because until the contact stops, you're going to continue to have feelings for this man, and I refuse to compete with that."
I agree with Lotus. If not MWD, at least a call to your DB coach. She will know how to help get you centered again and back on track. Believe it or not Denver, your in a position that most of us on this board would kill for. Keep going my man, no one said this part was any easier.
