Where Does it stop!!

[Forrest Gump]

"I can smack her for you if you'd like. I run that side service."

What do I smack her with thou?

You could do it.. but it would show up like a "Random Slapping".

I get that I have not found the thing that will get her moving.

You really don't what to know how this applies to my job also right now.

Lets just say.. I am stuck. I am looking at the angles and I just don't "see" a spot where I can start "working".

As far as "Romance" and "Diamonds" are concerned.. I can bring both. But I feel like I should hold them until I see her "Move". I am at a place where she needs to make a choice. I am watching and waiting. Maybe I am DB'ing too much. I have seen that happen. But for me.. I don't think I am.

[Forrest Gump]

"2 - accept the status quo and a loveless marriage, wait to die."

This is me.

"I believe we get what we give, eventually."

Yea to a point.

"What is her love language?"

She is claiming "Quality Time".

Not sure I fully agree with that.

I have done QT. I have done "gifts".. I have done "Physical".

Honestly nothing seems to hit the mark.

I question if she really knows what she wants.

This plays into my "ideas".

I have always known who I am.

What if she just does not know. She has been searching. Nothing has really "stood out". And she withholds.

"Try being nice without expectations, it cannot upset you anymore than you are already. Well it can...but that's because you let it. "Why isn't she responding? Why isn't she being nice back? Why don't I have a pony?"

Jack.. I have my pony. I understand that you might think I am bitter or angry. But really I am not. I mean if I wanted to go.. I could. If you really look at it close by the time we actually can get a D I will only have 1 child to support. She is now making almost as much as me. I can afford to the "support". And most likely I can find "another". I am not the best looking guy in the world.. but I have to think "someone" would find it attractive. It may take a while.. but I am sure that I could manage.

The issue is.. I made a choice and am now 17 years into it.

How do I make "that" attractive enough to evoke a change?

[fb2]

<< "No, it was a ploy for copious postings with minimal effort on my part."
<< This I do not believe. I know you too well FB2.
Seriously, I wanted to direct traffic your way.

<< Honestly nothing seems to hit the mark.
A lot of the advice you gave me I really didn't get! Just went by over by head (DAMm!). Its like listening to the Beatles, sounds very good, but makes no sense to me. But I do (at least vaguely) remember some of your famous slogans like "you post, you got my vote" and "Dumb Ass Man (DAM)". Among these there was one which effectively said "do something, anything, take a stand, make a move". Its rather vague in my mind now and I'm too lazy and busy to go dig it up but there ... that was your own advice. Just throw something out to Jenny at random every couple days and see where it lands! If not give her a spanking or start a pillow fight.

<< If you really look at it close by the time we actually can get a D I will only have 1 child to support. She is now making almost as much as me. I can afford to the "support".
I almost forgot ... you advanced DAM! And how about the home equity and retirement savings? And college?

[Jack_Three_Beans]

"2 - accept the status quo and a loveless marriage, wait to die."

This is me.

That blows and you know it. See far below for further comment

"
"I believe we get what we give, eventually."

Yea to a point.

...Yes, I'll agree.

However we owe it to ourselves to point out a lack of perceived reciprocation or appreciation.

I have found that telling my wife: "I'm begining to feel like the low man on your totem pole." Seems to work wonders, no fighting words, no accusations, just how I feel.

"
"What is her love language?"

She is claiming "Quality Time".

Not sure I fully agree with that.

...

What if she doesn't know...

I don't think it is your best interest to listen to what someone says there LL is. You on your own should be able to figure it out. Most people aren't honest enough with themselves to be accurate...and I figure Forrest...maybe look at what she does with the kids, cause you and her are a bit broken.

Her giving you the cold shoulder isn't an Act of Service. : )

It is very likely she might not know.

Ironically we also tend to give the LL we want in return.

Jack.. I have my pony. I understand that you might think I am bitter or angry. But really I am not. I mean if I wanted to go.. I could. If you really look at it close by the time we actually can get a D I will only have 1 child to support. She is now making almost as much as me. I can afford to the "support". And most likely I can find "another". I am not the best looking guy in the world.. but I have to think "someone" would find it attractive.

Oh I really don't think your bitter Forrest.
I wonder a little if your screwing around.

"Give me idea's!"
"Nope that won't work, nope that won't work."

THAT gets a little tiring, but not enough.

I KNOW you could go, but you haven't, so I'm trying hard to figure out what idea's you think will help.

I am just hoping that you have either already tried them, or have given them enough TIME to know that they won't work, and that you aren't dissmissing them out of hand, looking for that magic bullet that doesn't exist.

BTW, I find you attractive. All mopey and obtuse. I just don't bat that way.

It may take a while.. but I am sure that I could manage.

Want to hear something funny? Guess what else would 'take awhile'.

The issue is.. I made a choice and am now 17 years into it.

How do I make "that" attractive enough to evoke a change?

I am reading stuck with that choice.
Resignation...

Man it is your life Forrest, how YOU view it is up to you.
You want to see a pile of silver and look for the dark cloud? I can't stop you.
You want to see the dark cloud and see the silver lining, I also can't stop you.

There is nothing I can do, besides somehow induce amnesia, to make you look at life from a different angle.

Your reality is all about your perception.

You don't like your reality? Change the way you look at it.

[Starsky309]

"2 - accept the status quo and a loveless marriage, wait to die."

This is me.

That blows and you know it. See far below for further comment

"
"I believe we get what we give, eventually."

Yea to a point.

...Yes, I'll agree.

However we owe it to ourselves to point out a lack of perceived reciprocation or appreciation.

I have found that telling my wife: "I'm begining to feel like the low man on your totem pole." Seems to work wonders, no fighting words, no accusations, just how I feel.

"
"What is her love language?"

She is claiming "Quality Time".

Not sure I fully agree with that.

...

What if she doesn't know...

I don't think it is your best interest to listen to what someone says there LL is. You on your own should be able to figure it out. Most people aren't honest enough with themselves to be accurate...and I figure Forrest...maybe look at what she does with the kids, cause you and her are a bit broken.

Her giving you the cold shoulder isn't an Act of Service. : )

It is very likely she might not know.

Ironically we also tend to give the LL we want in return.

Jack.. I have my pony. I understand that you might think I am bitter or angry. But really I am not. I mean if I wanted to go.. I could. If you really look at it close by the time we actually can get a D I will only have 1 child to support. She is now making almost as much as me. I can afford to the "support". And most likely I can find "another". I am not the best looking guy in the world.. but I have to think "someone" would find it attractive.

Oh I really don't think your bitter Forrest.
I wonder a little if your screwing around.

"Give me idea's!"
"Nope that won't work, nope that won't work."

THAT gets a little tiring, but not enough.

I KNOW you could go, but you haven't, so I'm trying hard to figure out what idea's you think will help.

I am just hoping that you have either already tried them, or have given them enough TIME to know that they won't work, and that you aren't dissmissing them out of hand, looking for that magic bullet that doesn't exist.

BTW, I find you attractive. All mopey and obtuse. I just don't bat that way.

It may take a while.. but I am sure that I could manage.

Want to hear something funny? Guess what else would 'take awhile'.

The issue is.. I made a choice and am now 17 years into it.

How do I make "that" attractive enough to evoke a change?

I am reading stuck with that choice.
Resignation...

Man it is your life Forrest, how YOU view it is up to you.
You want to see a pile of silver and look for the dark cloud? I can't stop you.
You want to see the dark cloud and see the silver lining, I also can't stop you.

There is nothing I can do, besides somehow induce amnesia, to make you look at life from a different angle.

Your reality is all about your perception.

You don't like your reality? Change the way you look at it.

Starsky

[Forrest Gump]

"A lot of the advice you gave me I really didn't get!"

I understand.

But the best advice I gave you was to hand over the papers.

Trust me.. I was there with you on the steps. I remember the post. Still to this day I hate I had to tell you to do that. I still question whether it was the best thing to do.

But I know without a shadow of doubt that me telling you to do that changed things. From what I read here you are still searching for the answer. Which implies the door is still "open".

I like you posting FB2.. Glad you are here to keep pushing up my post count.

[Forrest Gump]

"I have found that telling my wife: "I'm begining to feel like the low man on your totem pole." Seems to work wonders, no fighting words, no accusations, just how I feel."

I have done this both in RL and in C. My words just don't seem to be heard. She says she understands in C.. but that does not translate to RL.

"Oh I really don't think your bitter Forrest.
I wonder a little if your screwing around."

I will assure you I am not screwing around. I know my post came at a weird time and that it could be me just trying to get things going around here again. This is not the case. I have always said I was a newcomer. I still stand by that. I can "fix" the people that post here. Even if it in only 1% of them. Beyond that.. I am "hopeless"..

"THAT gets a little tiring, but not enough."

But Jack.. what has really been presented to me beyond the stuff I have posted about. I understand that my situation my have you flustered.. and not knowing what to say. But I am really thinking there is a step above. Maybe I am wrong in thinking that.. but it is how I feel. I mean if I throw in SmartCookie or LostPhil.. I am not "fighting" it. I am not telling you that you are wrong or banning you from my post. I just have not read anything that I have not tried. I have even tried ignoring things.. just to see what might happen.

"You don't like your reality? Change the way you look at it."

The reality is I want my wife to see the value that I bring to the R. I want her to understand that I can see both sides. I want her to see the reality of me not walking away.

What about that should I change?

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I have done this both in RL and in C. My words just don't seem to be heard. She says she understands in C.. but that does not translate to RL.

Forrest,
Give me a ballpark figure here.
You and you wife:
Get along and interact nicely: 0% of the time? 10%? 30%?

I can "fix" the people that post here. Even if it in only 1% of them.

Fix? Or help, advise, support?
For me; 'fix' sends warning bells. If I fix someone, what happens if they 'break' later? Do I get to 'fix' them again? What if I'm not around? Shouldn't they be capable of fixing themselves? And if they are fixed, are they going to be using the skills they hopefully learned to keep up on maintenance?

I am not "fighting" it. I am not telling you that you are wrong or banning you from my post. I just have not read anything that I have not tried. I have even tried ignoring things.. just to see what might happen.

I get that Forrest, if you told me to back off I would.
If I got the feeling that you were really just screwing around, I'd find a better use for my time.

The reality is I want my wife to see the value that I bring to the R. I want her to understand that I can see both sides. I want her to see the reality of me not walking away.

What about that should I change?

You're answer is very 'Wife-centric' and not Forrest-centric, let me switch that up.

What value DO you bring to the relationship?
You SEE both side's but do you show it?
And what is the reality of you not walking away?

While it is commendable, that you do contribute and can see both sides and have not walked away, do you wear your sufferance on your face; in your attitude; or in your words?

Are you passive aggresive towards her because of your wants are not being met?

[DumpedforMIL]

long time no post.

The reality is I want my wife to see the value that I bring to the R. I want her to understand that I can see both sides. I want her to see the reality of me not walking away.

it's her choice whether she wants to value it or not.
you could be crapping gold bars and it may mean nothing to her.

imo, your best bet is to let her go. let her see the reality of you walking away.

do you really want to be with someone who doesn't value you? that you have to try to make this person see that value in you?

have you tried letting her go and filing for d? life is too short to waste on someone who doesn't see value in you. unless you don't value yourself.

[Forrest Gump]

"Get along and interact nicely: 0% of the time? 10%? 30%?"

60% of the time. You did say nicely.

Really it is not the issue of us interacting.

After all this time we can fake it pretty well. We have never gotten to the "core" issues. We both hold a "grudge" so to speak. I think she is "crazy" she thinks I am "hard headed"

If I look at it from my point of view I think she places too much value on "I am not doing enough for the kids". But.. I just don't know what else I could do. They have a good mother and a good father. It is almost like her overwhelming desire to make me a better father is driving me away. I mean I kinda need a little bit of direction. I mean if I am doing well should there not be some indication that I am doing well? I don't beat them. I have never discouraged them from doing anything. I have "given" them things I did not think they deserved.

I am not sure that tonight I have the brain power to look at it from her point of view.. and I will make that more clear at the end of my post.

"For me; 'fix' sends warning bells. If I fix someone, what happens if they 'break' later? Do I get to 'fix' them again? What if I'm not around? Shouldn't they be capable of fixing themselves? And if they are fixed, are they going to be using the skills they hopefully learned to keep up on maintenance?"

"Fix" has the bells for me too Jack. It is written in every post "here". People think I am weird because as I am "fixing" them I am also preparing them. Too a point I have kinda pushed for people not to "fix" and look at things from a different point of view. People should be able to look at the situation and figure out what needs to happen. But at the same time if people could do that.. this site and the many others like it would not exist. It is those tunnels with the cheese in it.

"You're answer is very 'Wife-centric' and not Forrest-centric, let me switch that up."

OK..

"What value DO you bring to the relationship?"

I bring me to the R. I bring someone that will strive to stand out to the people he holds close. I bring the expectation that when "that" happens people should see the value in it. My friends can "see" that. My co-workers can "see" that. Maybe to a point DB.com can see that. I am caring.. with a touch of sarcasm. I am loving cause I want you to be close to me. And if you give me the chance I will build you up.

"You SEE both side's but do you show it?"

Yes.. to me I have. She has pointed it out in C. She has said.. I can see it. But.. then she just keeps pointing out where I have failed.

An example...

I C we talked about how we need to come together on things with the kids. To a point that was focused on our D. She is 16. We came to the idea that if D was talking about doing something to her.. she would fill me in. If D was talking to me about doing something.. I would fill her in. I was reasonably sure that I was clear that this needed to be a face to face thing.. or at least a phone call.

So.. D texts me about going to the beach. She clued me in on what time she was leaving and what time she might be home. She had been with my W all day and had obviously been directed to contact me for approval. I did not respond. Mainly because I have been clear that it needs some face time.. or at they very least some cell minutes. I heard exactly nothing from that point on. My D came home hung out with some friends.. went to bed. I went to work the next day and then got home and D is not there. I asked the W if D had gone to the beach. Plans had changed and D had gone to Kings Dominion. She then asked me why I did not respond to the beach things. I told her that I was sure that I was clear that stuff like this should not be discussed in a text message. If she (W) thought I was not clear to D about that.. then I would handle it and make it clear. My W then told me that me not responding made her (W) sad. Things start to go a little sideways here. I get that my W may be sad about my "no response" but she is completely disregarding that "we" have said "texting is not acceptable". My W telling me that she was sad.. most likely elevated my tone somewhat. I again indicated that I would make it more clear to D that this was not the way to ask permission. Then I got that "people must bow down and kiss your feet". Lets just say there were lot's of FU's from me after that.

"While it is commendable, that you do contribute and can see both sides and have not walked away, do you wear your sufferance on your face; in your attitude; or in your words?"

Honestly.. Jack I try not too. Does it happen.. yes. I am not perfect.. nor do I expect to be. It is actually kinda cool that you used the sufferance word. I feel like I am.. but I do try really hard not to let that show. But if you think it.. you most likely look like it right?

Kinda like she is miserable living this life.. she would not tell me.. but I can see it.

All she wants to be is happy. I will assure you that I have not seen happy in her eyes in a long time.

"Are you passive aggresive towards her because of your wants are not being met?"

My needs.. are honestly just gone now Jack. I am just trying to "find" something to hold onto. I suspect that if she walked up tomorrow and told me she would fulfill all my "needs".. I would pass. How is that for honesty?

"it's her choice whether she wants to value it or not.
you could be crapping gold bars and it may mean nothing to her."

To a point I agree with you D4. I won't tell you I have been crapping gold bars.. maybe some copper ones.

"have you tried letting her go and filing for d? life is too short to waste on someone who doesn't see value in you. unless you don't value yourself."

I read the other stuff you wrote. I am discounting it somewhat. I know in my heart that she can "see" the value I bring. She very likely would never find someone like me. I can't say that I would have any better luck than her in that same search.

The reality of it this thou...

We had a talk tonight about I am done and do not want this anymore. She needs to decide whether we need to get the L involved or can we do this smartly.

We have a C session that is scheduled for today at 6 (EST).

She has said that she is going whether I do or not.

I have said I have no intention of going.

My plan is to sit down Fri night and get the "money" straight.

Sat we need to have a chat with the kids about what is to come.

So.. no.. I have not tied to let her go.

But it is in the works.

Someone once said to me.. people saying they are gonna go.. are not gonna go. They just want people to tell them to stay.

I am still not sure I totally agree with that.