Sweetheart, it's been six years. He still needs time to make a decision? Yes or no. In or out. If he wants this marriage he will do what he needs to do to stay in. Otherwise he is out.
Thing #1 that he needs to do is the no contact letter. Thing #2 is transparency -- you check his phone, his email accounts, etc. Why? Because trust hasn't worked. Trust has to be built all over again one day at a time. And I know you are trying to see a IC. That is good. You both should be talking to someone. And then you need professional help.
Marital counseling can help. I know Retrouvaille does help. I could not have reconciled with my husband without it. And we both learned from it how to stop being so self-centered and start doing things because we really do care about how the other person feels.
Maria has been through something very similar to your situation. I trust her advice in all of this.
Sweetheart, it's been six years. He still needs time to make a decision? Yes or no. In or out. If he wants this marriage he will do what he needs to do to stay in. Otherwise he is out.
Thing #1 that he needs to do is the no contact letter. Thing #2 is transparency -- you check his phone, his email accounts, etc. Why? Because trust hasn't worked. Trust has to be built all over again one day at a time. And I know you are trying to see a IC. That is good. You both should be talking to someone. And then you need professional help.
Marital counseling can help. I know Retrouvaille does help. I could not have reconciled with my husband without it. And we both learned from it how to stop being so self-centered and start doing things because we really do care about how the other person feels.
Maria has been through something very similar to your situation. I trust her advice in all of this.
I thought the point of his meeting with her to break up was the fact that he chose you.
I like Lotus' advice.
How would you feel about counseling? Would an intensive with Michele and the two of you be an option? I think it's expensive, but not nearly as expensive as divorce. (I don't get paid for saying that. I know Michele has a real clear head even in the midst of major emotion. And I know she can detect BS and help work through a lot of things.)
I don't usually suggest retrouvaille because it seems that most folks go into thinking this is their last shot, and if it doesn't work nothing will, and if only one partner is interested in saving the relationship, and the weekend didn't bring them closer, they feel their fate has been sealed. But it might end up being very helpful for you and lead you to someone who could help you heal over the long haul.
What are your thoughts?
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
I don't know if an intensive with Michele would work for me because I know I will need much more than a couple of days with a professional to work beyond this. I would prefer to find someone local so we have someone to discuss issues with on an ongoing basis, as I anticipate I will need help resolving questions for months to come.
I've considered Retro in the past, but I'm not sure if it's something I need right now. I suppose it couldn't hurt, but I'm somewhat turned off by the religious aspect of it (even though it isn't overly religious, I have issues with people who 'preach' because I have seen too much hypocrisy from religious leaders - no offense to anyone for their beliefs. I believe in God, but I don't believe in religion.)
I don't know if I made the right move last night. We sat down to talk when we got home. I told him that I wasn't as clear as I needed to be with my expectations, but that I would now lay it out for him in unmistakable terms. I told him that it has taken me time to find clarity, but now I am very clear with my needs, expectations, limits and non-negotiables.
When I told him I expected him to tell me when she contacted him and when he contacted her, I should have told him I expected him to establish No Contact after his conversation with her on Sunday. I understood that he would be hearing from her, which was out of his control, but that he did have control over how he responded to her.
I told him I needed him to tell her that he and I are going to work on repairing our marriage and in order for that to work, he would no longer be communicating with her.
I told him if he was undecided, then please take all the time he needed, but that he wouldn't be doing it while living at home.
I told him that these needs are non-negotiable and he probably feels I'm holding his hand to the fire but in reality, it is OW who is doing that.
He said he understood my expectations clearly now. He thought that I wanted all of us to have proper closure so that we could move forward - which, in fairness and full-disclosure, I did express in the beginning - (and he thought as long as he was transparent with me when contact was made and what was said, I was OK with continued contact), but he now understands that OW's 'closure' isn't my problem to deal with.
Did I make a mistake in not forcing him to leave last night? I don't know. I know that "Not Just Friends" says not to make any decisions for several weeks and I know that I wasn't as clear with him as I needed to be. He and I both now know what my limits are and that I'm not afraid to enforce my needs. He understands I won't be manipulated or guilted into letting him stay by the threat of his leaving being permanent. He knows I can't and don't trust him and that I will follow up with vigilance to protect myself going forward.
M: 37 H: 36 Married: Aug 13, 2004 Decision to Divorce: July 20, 2008 Reconciled: September 2008 Current: Ambivalence
I fully understand your not wanting anything from him that is not freely given. I reached that point, too. But the thing is, when I got to that point, he was no longer in the house with me and we were no longer acting as a couple. At that point, I refused to ask for anything that the man who loves and wants me should automatically give.
But after the infidelity, I put my foot down. Me or her. No contact with her at all. Ever. And if you see her across a crowded room, driving down the street, wherever, I want you to immediately call me and tell me. Those were my conditions of me remaining in a relationship with him. This is a boundary that you need to establish IF you are going to continue to live with him and work on your M even the slightest bit.
Now, if you are wanting to separate or get space, I could understand you not making demands.
Me: 33, H: 32 M: 12 years T: 13 years No kids D-Day: 7/2009 Separated: 10/12/10 Future Unknown GITS
"There's a fire starting in my heart, reaching a fever pitch and it's bringing me out the dark." - Adele
Sweetheart, it's been six years. He still needs time to make a decision? Yes or no. In or out. If he wants this marriage he will do what he needs to do to stay in. Otherwise he is out.
Lotus, I have to tell you that I read your words last night before I spoke to my husband and you really helped me find clarity.
Every one of you that has posted to me has been a tremendous source of help.
I realize I may not have been as strong as I should have (by forcing him to leave last night) but I am confident that I can make that choice if any of my boundaries are crossed. A deal-breaker is a deal-breaker and he now knows what my deal-breakers are.
M: 37 H: 36 Married: Aug 13, 2004 Decision to Divorce: July 20, 2008 Reconciled: September 2008 Current: Ambivalence
You did good. Do NOT fear. What he did is not a mistake. Be as firm as you want to be. If he backs off, that will be the answer you are looking for. This is it. As Lotus says, six years is a long time. This is not only about him, this is YOU deciding how you want things to be from now on. I sense you are too careful not to "hurt" his feelings. Time to be a little selfish. Now. After a while, you will have to be "reasonable". Now is when you can have the strongest stand. Not sure I explain it right. Love K
I never have a hard time understanding you; you explain things perfectly.
You are right. I am always careful to try not to hurt him. He hasn't shown me the same courtesy, obviously.
I haven't received a copy of a proposed "no contact" letter yet. I didn't bring it up last night. I attended the funeral of my friend and wasn't in the mood to discuss anything, and h didn't bring anything up either. He watched some T.V. and then read some of "Not Just Friends".
It was his birthday, and I didn't do anything for him other than wish him a happy birthday. I'm trying to be kind and courteous (as you would treat a stranger) and I've been mostly successful, but I feel like every day is Groundhog Day. I go to sleep feeling a certain calm but when I wake up all the emotions, anger, betrayal, etc. are brand new...
I did get a 'vibe' from him that he was upset/irritated/agitated that I was taking such a firm stand. He liked it a lot better when I was letting him co-pilot, and it's an uncomfortable adjustment for him to allow me to take the wheel completely.
I feel our roles have finally reversed.
I still struggle with knowing what I want. My concern is that I have lost too much respect for him.
M: 37 H: 36 Married: Aug 13, 2004 Decision to Divorce: July 20, 2008 Reconciled: September 2008 Current: Ambivalence
