I have talked to a lot of people in the throes of unhappy marriages, and I can't tell who will be able to reconcile and who won't. But I do know that in order to reconcile, you have to be able to forgive another person. Only you know what your limits are. But, that is my little tidbit of wisdom after 3 years.
Having been on here pretty much the same amount of time as Lotus I have also seen similar things, both on this board, other boards and IRL.
HOW one goes about trying to stop the infidelity when it occurs , it seems to me, depends on the circumstances. Why did it get to the point where the person who is unfaithful is unfaithful.
In my M it was down to both my H and I - we both did things we shouldn't. That didn't make me turn to another person but it did make me turn away from my H; my H however decided to look for comfort elsewhere. I know for others there will have been different reasons and for some it will feel like they did nothing to make their S be unfaithful. Whatever the problems, I believe there is no reason for a S to be unfaithful.....however once it happens I don't believe it is unforgivable.
Only the LBS can decide how they want to handle it. Before I ever found this site I went through stages of great anger and was in the depths of depression and grief when I arrived here - even though the decision had been made to stay together and for my H to end his 18 month A. Forgiveness was a massive issue for me. Forgiving my H, forgiving OW, ....forgiving myself.
My H and I talked things out and we both owned our own part of the breakdown in the M....and we could also see other things that we hadn't done 'wrong' but that had contributed to the breakdown - like neglecting each other as we were so busy raising a family of four children. Forgetting who the other person was and that we actually liked each other, etc....
I still had trouble though getting my head round the fact that my H had 'cheated', and I would cycle and be ok and then I would berate him with his infidelity. He, man that he is, stood up to all that berating and he was completely transparent about everything.
Gradually the forgiveness for him came.....and I also realised that I had been unfaithful in my own way. I had used my friends to talk to about things that bothered me rather than my H. I had moaned about my H to GF's - and the more one does that the more one becomes to dislike the person one moans about. He stopped being my best friend and confident. I had rejected him and became miserable in my self imposed loneliness; so he sort a smiley face and comfort elsewhere. He was wrong, but so was I. The forgiveness on both sides came.
As for OW - well in my sitch she was a gold digger and I tried hard to forgive but it meant she took up too much space in my thoughts; so I decided to let myself not forgive her but just forget about her. That's what I have done.
As for forgiving myself......well that's a work in project, which is how I think it should be. I don't think I should forget what happened. Everyday I work at my M. It is the best gift I can give myself, my H, and my children.
I have seen a lot of direction on the boards about whether to expose or not....and who to if one does expose......and that is a personal decision and has different outcomes for different people. What I would say, is that for me, knowing WHY it happened was important, so that I could try and rectify that and work on making sure it never happened again.
I would be lying if I didn't say at times I thought I would never achieve forgiveness, but with the help of some of the fine folks on here, plus some other good cyber friends, and friends and family IRL, (who ALL were supportive), I feel I have come a long way.
It is true that forgiveness is a gift - without the ability to forgive there is no point in being here IMO - but it can take a while to realise that.
I feel deep sorrow for anyone who ends up needing this site, but you have also come to a good place, where you can hopefully offload, find friends and support, grow and heal.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Great post. Thanks. Helping me think through things/thoughts/issues as W and I piece
M39 W41 Two children WAW bomb dropped 11/7/09 Piecing Aug 10 - Nov 10 No longer piecing...Nov 10 Separation Jan 11 EA ends again Feb 11 Piecing attempt #2, Mar 11
Thanks for taking the time to produce such a balanced, helpful post on forgiveness. I think that, whether or not a marriage is saved after a breakdown or affair, forgiveness is absolutely necessary to either partner in order to be able to heal.
In my case, I had been a sexually abused child who spent 22 years going through the almost impossibly difficult process of reclaiming/saving myself. During this time I got married, had children, etc, but my marriage suffered because I was often acting in ways that were not yet healthy. Of course, my H, too, had physical and verbal abuse in his past that he minimized and had not yet addressed.
Quite unexpectedly, the abuser became quite prominent (nothing to do with his sexual proclivities), and I became distraught and almost suicidal. Someone suggested I needed to forgive him, and at first I though I couldn't because he was unable to admit his guilt or take responsibility. However, I learned that the forgiveness had nothing to do with him; rather, it was a way to remove him from being a figure of any importance in my life.
Forgiving him was the best thing I have done in my life. Soon, he became irrelevant. I stopped having the nightmares, the depressed periods, the feelings of being a victim, and felt a sense of peace and being "present" I couldn't ever remember having had.
A week or so later, my H started raving about this amazing woman at work who was brilliant, the nicest person there, needed a ton of help from him to get the job she really ought to have--the whole OW deal. And a part of me thought, I always wondered why I was chosen never to have a normal childhood, etc--but now I think part of it was so that I could learn to forgive. And now I'm going to be tested on that....
My H's MLC and EA eventually ended. By then we'd both done a lot of growing, and knew how to love each other in a mature and non-codependent way. I learned to forgive myself for everything I'd done wrong in the marriage, but in a compassionate, "you did the best you could at the time with the resources you had, but how would you like your best self to act from now on?" kind of way. I went through the process of forgiveness for my H when I was finally ready to do it without anger, and eventually he forgave himself for the EA as well.
Like Saffie, I didn't forgive the OW, though I did allow myself to feel some compassion for someone who is so obviously damaged, but she has receded to some unimportant place in my mind.
Forgiveness truly is a gift you give yourself. It's the difference between fumbling around in the dark tripping over obstacles, and turning on the light to see a clear path in front of you--it gives you a sense of peace and clarity that is invaluable.
I am in total agreement with the above. just completed Retrouvaille, and if i had not been able to say the past is past and move towards the idea of forgiveness then my M would be over right now. could not have gone thru Retrouvaille otherwise actually. after the many hours together over the w/e, i looked into her eyes and knew it wasnt over. then again, i suspected that before the w/e. the clincher was when she came to the same conclusion, however provisional it may be right now.
hard when u have friends and family who know but ultimately dont give one shat what they think. doing what u think is right can be lonely sometimes. but u cannot let that lead u astray from the path of forgiveness and righteousness.
forgiveness IS a gift: to yourself as well as to your spouse. i would hope a time comes when your H or W realizes the mistake they made when they did what they did. there are hints in my W's behavior which would make me think so. saw a small piece of her writing in her notebook at Retrouvaille where she asked "how can he forgive me? it is a big sin, one of the ten commandments." yes. I can do it.
she still has my heart, and I can hope we will be able to find a way to rekindle the fire between us and lay the foundation for a new marriage. my hope for the future is to renew our vows, maybe even marry her again. dreamer i guess.
do i completely trust my W? hmmm, mostly but not blindly. today for example she was at a friend's house for a couple of hours. i started to head out and saw her car coming towards me as i was driving away. she asked me where was i going? told her out. i did end up telling her that i "felt worried, uneasy, unsure." wouldve never been able to do that before. my problem was holding on to my feelings. no more. W smiled wistfully and told me not to worry. hugged me. hopefully a good sign bc it has been one month since exposure. W most def has to be in withdrawal or coming to ends of the acute stage of it.
do i love her? yes.
am i committed to her, our M and our family? yes.
and Cyrena, my wife was also abused sexually as a child at the hands of her father. she has always said she was over it, but dont believe it. dont think she has forgiven him (yet). the biggest moment early on in our R was when she told me about it. i have always supported her and tried to protect her. it did not change how i feel or felt about her (nor should it have). i have always wondered about the influence of the abuse on our current sitch.
and as for the OM2? hmmm, not sure if i forgive him. maybe in time. he is a FB predator (i absolutely detest facebook which thankfully the W now dislikes as well recognizing the danger inherent in it so much so that she agrees w/ getting our 15 and 13 y/o D's off of it), a tragic/flawed figure w/ multiple issues (drugs as youth needing rehab, alcohol now, anger, womanizer) who appears quite damaged, for how else could you do what you did knowing we had 5 children and he has 4! question for my W? maybe but I still know i can and do forgive her.
i actually did ask him one time in a text: "how much harm is enough? what did i ever do to u? My kids... no more. pls." when i did speak to him the one time i ever did and hope to ever do, he told me that that text devastated him. it should. too bad his conscience didnt stop him from doing what he did. thus forgiveness for him? good question. maybe God will lead me to the right answer bc He forgives us for our sins, no?
forgiveness is the light and the way. i see that now. i no longer obsess or think about the details of their affair. not interested. down that road lies darkness and dissolution. the past IS past as long as u do not commit the same mistakes that lead u astray.
________________________________________________________________ M: 42, W: 40 T: 18y, M: 15y S7 S9; D4 D13 D15 --------------------------------------------- Nov 2008 - Feb 2009 - EA/PA - OM1 Mar 2009 - Exposed - W didnt come clean 100%, admitted A, no details May 2009 - Nov 2009 - FT but no resolution Nov 2009 - DB'ing (not very well bc) Mar 2010 - ILYBNILWY - still ML regularly Mar 2010 - Wife shuts me out of FaceBook Mar 2010 - Sep 2010 - EA/PA - OM2 (lives in FL but working NY) 9/1/10 - OM2 moves back to FL, his M estranged in past, 4 children 8/31/10 - install keylogger (shouldve done it sooner, duh) 9/6/10 - Confront W/OM2/OMW2 9/7/10 - Exposure family/friends 9/7/10 - W says may file D, talk sep? 9/7/10 to present - OM2 discloses A in detail to OMW2, offers wife 100% transparency 9/14/10 - Communicated OM2/OMW2, end contact, sep no longer option Sept 2010 - W initially won't admit A until 9/16/10, wanting "closure", reluctantly agreed no contact Retrouvaille 9/24-9/26: great experience, W hopeful for 1st time, agrees FB/social networking is bad influence, texts/emails much less, mostly warm but some cold days, not physical yet but for occasional short kisses --------------------------------------------- Current - Contact with OM2 unknown, suspect done for now bc W acting strange, ?withdrawal Current - only small details of A revealed, but transparent Current - completed Retrouvaille, pretty good thus far, talking, sharing feelings, talks about future, wearing rings again (!!) after few weeks of not
she still has my heart, and I can hope we will be able to find a way to rekindle the fire between us and lay the foundation for a new marriage. my hope for the future is to renew our vows, maybe even marry her again. dreamer i guess.
That's what we did....but we made it a small thing - just H, me and the children. The vicar knew exactly what we had been through and helped us word things so beautifully. It was just right.
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do i completely trust my W? hmmm, mostly but not blindly. today for example she was at a friend's house for a couple of hours. i started to head out and saw her car coming towards me as i was driving away. she asked me where was i going? told her out. i did end up telling her that i "felt worried, uneasy, unsure." wouldve never been able to do that before. my problem was holding on to my feelings. no more. W smiled wistfully and told me not to worry. hugged me.
This will come in time. Trust has to be earned....and you will still have wobbles when similar circumstances present themselves.....but at some point it does seem to get better. You suddenly look back and realise you haven't been feeling those panicky feelings for a while and things are more relaxed.
Just don't forget that your M is something to KEEP WORKING ON.....DBing is for life, IMO.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
