Thought I would start this topic as it has reared its head a few times and I'm a bit confused on it myself.
Most of the advice I read from the "greats" (Allen, Puppy, Robx, Gucci, Sandi, to name a few...) say you should NOT be "friends" with a WS. That's not that you can't be civil, cordial, etc... but you don't positively reinforce their bad behavior by remaining friends. I agree with this, personally. Why would I want to be friends with someone who wants to abandon me and destroy my family....causing my children damage for a lifetime?!
It also, to me, just allows WS to disrespect you. You're going to say, "I'm willing to be friends" while they are telling you they have no feelings for you or worse, are off running around with someone else???
BUT...I remember one of the first things I read on the homepage of this website was a story of a man who remained friends with his wife - Best Friends, it sounds like - and was able to restore his marriage. Does DB/DR not endorse remaining friends???
I guess my stance - and it's a difficult line to find - is to keep the door open but I'm not going to be buddies with someone who is treating me badly or at best, with no regard.
Thoughts on practicalities of this subject? I am posting this on both Infidelity and Newcomers as I know different people hang out on different forums.
H and I are still living together - still sharing the same bed in fact. Right now we are on friendly terms, I guess you would say. We still do things together with the kids like eat, go to the movies, and even to church. However, H shows no interest in working on our R. I am friendly towards him, but I am not going out of my way to be "friends" with him as I am distancing. I know he wants to remain friends even if we D. I will tell him absolutely not, if it comes to that! I will be civil, polite, etc... but I am not going to make it easy for him to have me there for him and cut and run at the same time!
A lot for me depends on how this marriage "retreat" weekend goes next weekend. I'm biding my time on any further actions until after that weekend. www.savemymarriage.com for anyone who wants to check it out.
I agree, esp. with currently studying "Human Growth and Development". BUT...I think LBS's do it - remain friends - because it's less painful. Friendliness towards WS brings friendliness back in some cases. They mistake that for the WS changing their mind or coming around. Maybe it is in some cases, not for me to judge. When LBS dares not to be nice, WS's get angry at times and say things or do things that hurt the LBS. That causes the LBS pain. It's EASIER to be nice: nice equals less pain. However, nice doesn't garner respect when WS is doing things he/she should not be doing!
Therefore, to me, being friends is counter-productive to trying to save a marriage. I think it's Sandi's tagline to "do what works, not what feels good"
So - why the story about remaining friends on the homepage? Why would anyone endorse positively reinforcing negative behavior???
So - why the story about remaining friends on the homepage? Why would anyone endorse positively reinforcing negative behavior???
I'd love to know the answer to that one, Sunny. It wasn't written by MWD, and it doesn't even match some of the stuff that she herself teaches in DB/DR (boundary-setting, LRT, just to name two).
See my thoughts on your other thread by the same name in Newcomers. Suffice here for me to say: IT DOESN'T WORK, and DBing is supposed to be all about "Do what works."
I suspect it was a motivational piece to demonstrate that even if your spouse cheats on you, abandons you, and shaks up with someone else... there is still hope.. that they do sometimes come home.
I take it that way, simply as a motivational piece, not a sample of good db strategy at all.. Except maybe to demonstrate the importance of maintaining a degree of composure
SunnyD a few weeks ago I was trying to find that article too because I read it early on and noticed it ran contrary to the DBing advice in some ways, but I was feeling myself that "well, if I couldn't have my husband in every way, shape, and form, maybe at the least I could have him as a friend." So I tried to find that article but couldn't. Anyway given some time to think about it, I think that my wish to try to be friends with him through this comes from me again not letting go of him. I don't want to be friends with the guy he is NOW. No way. I was trying to be friends with who he was to be pre-affair. The problem is that his behavior now crossed a very big line, and it's wrong and continues to be, and I think his wish to try to remain friends with me comes from him trying to not feel guilty over his actions. Think of it this way, if he is able to keep me as a friend, then he can tell himself that what he did to me and the marriage "really couldn't have been that bad" because "she seems to be ok with it." Well I'm not. I understand my role in the foundation of the marriage cracking before the affair, but I did everything I could to try to get him and me into counseling LAST year before he started up this affair, and he wasn't up for the work. So this affair is NOT on me at all.
So I think that the friend thing as expressed in that one story might have worked for one sitch, but I think in most cases it just makes the LBS into the safety net and doormat. I mean if I say "ok I'll be your friend, I'm ok with the affair", even if he comes back he'll come back into the rel. with the idea in his head that I'd let that go again and there would be no real change on his end.
M45 Bomb 6/09; EA 6/10; Divorced 1/11 Proud single mom of 7 little feline girls and one little feline boy "Fall down 53 times. Get up 54." -- Zen saying
Hi Sunny, I am sort of in your sitch--have an H that just refuses to work on the M. Not involved in an A, as far as I can tell, but does use porn and neglects me.
I went to a C, then we both went for about 6 sessions, then he quit and has been hostile and disrespectful for months (since Nov). I tried to be nice--tried to be the better person, tried to make the M a better option. Did all the DB stuff (and I did it 6 years ago--he was going to walk out then but I DB'd him back).
He has just gotten worse--more and more disrespectful. He just wants "out" and refuses to do anything. The C told us we were wasting our time.
I am no longer this person's friend. In fact, I want him to really feel the consequences of being such a jerk--and want him out. No, there is no affair that I can tell (and I check all the time--he is around here 24/7 pretty much) but so what?? His behaviour is still wretched and why am I trying to be this wretched person's friend?? What is that teaching my S14??
I am over here looking for the thread that give creative ways to get your S to leave. We have another home that we own and he can go to and he STILL refuses to leave!! I thought without proof of an affair, is this the right thing to do?? But I read Dr. Dobson's book and it has made me think that it doesn't matter--this is someone who is emotionally being abusive and we are still trying to be friends with this person?
I'm not feeling a bit guilty--this is wrong behaviour from a person that made promises to love, honor, cherish and all that--this has been going on for 8 months and it's time to say adios!
