And so it goes

[PEI]

Taylor,

PEI,

So, what you're saying is that you feel I am putting a check mark next to my skills at Validating and that I am quickly glossing over the subject of Validation..and you've come to that conclusion because of the comment I made saying that I'd read the thread recommended to me and I could see that I was doing some of those things already?

I'm not sure how you got that out of what I said. Help me to understand.

As Lance pointed out, what I said was:

Truly learning how to listen and validate is a skill that takes time to build. Really read the resources ... over and over again until they become a part of who you are and how you operate. Unfortunately, doing some things right gets 'cancelled out' very quickly by doing something wrong. Many positives can be obliterated by even a single negative sometimes ... and conversely, it can take many, many positives to override a negative. Fair? Nope. Reality? Yep.

In the beginning I thought I was giving my H space, was I? Nope. But I thought I was. I thought I was loving unconditionally, I thought I was validating, etc .... was I? NO. My intentions were good, but it takes time to understand, truly understand, the depth of some of this stuff. Now, I not saying you don't ... just that if I were you, I wouldn't be too quick to gloss over something and put a checkmark beside it - Yep, doing that!

So, it's not an accusation Taylor, it was a warning. Based on personal experience as I also explained (and I would also like to point out that your post followed Lance's (re)posting of the resource thread by approx 16 minutes). If you truly want to learn about validation and see it in action, read missherlove's thread ... he is far better at validation then I will ever be.

IMO..A little encouragement goes a long way when you're learning a new skill..or feeling like you're doing so many things the wrong way. I'd rather that someone asked me what I was thinking if they weren't sure, instead of assuming something that wasn't true.

Taylor, you've received nothing but encouragement. It just doesn't always come packaged in a way you want to hear it. Jack said to me once, and I'll repeat it here ... "I'm not your friend, I'm your support"... what I think he meant by that, was that he was here to tell me what he felt I needed to hear, not what I wanted to hear.

It probably doesn't seem like it, but I really do know this is going to be a long haul. Do I want it to be over as soon as possible so we can move on with being happy and having a normal life? I'd be a glutton for pain if I said anything by YES.YES.YES!!! Am I willing to put in the work to get there? Without a shadow of a doubt.

Ok, Grit ... this ones for you ...

Taylor ... the real question is "Are you willing to put in the work even if it doesn't get you there?" Hmmmmmmmmm. That is a much tougher question to answer. I would hazard a guess that most of the posters on this board would say "Hell YEAH!" to doing the work necessary with a guarenteed outcome. But what if I told you that the real work was all about you? What if I told you that you that all the work you really need to do might not save your marriage .... would you still do it?

I would answer those questions the same whether we stay together or go our separate ways. I'm trying to think in terms of "happy life" instead of "happy marriage". It's more healthy for me.

This sounds good Taylor, now live up to what you wrote.

What I was really trying to point out was that this process is like an onion (nickle Shrek) and the layers just keep getting deeper and deeper. I'm not judging you. I'm hoping you can learn something from my experience, from Lance, from eric, from punkin ... from any of the people here on the boards ... ultimately that's why we're all here.

Peace
PEI

[ericmsant2]

PEI

Spot on girly..and thank you for your response on my thread.

ITay - You know I have been where you are...I have and so have many others that post here.

- You see a glimmer of hope, that's good.
- You feel good, that's good.
- The crisis appears to be over, that is good.

Honey, I will keep telling you over and over...slow down...take it slow...

From your post it appears that you are WORKING SO HARD to “get it right”… working so hard to get back what you had. Man do I know what that's like.

You know, sometimes...doing nothing...is doing a lot.

This may be semantics...but one of your posts stood out to me. It made reference to learning a "new skill". I don't know what you meant by this and so I will give you my take from my PERSONAL experience.

When i arrived I did exactly some of the same things that it appears you are doing..I read and read so more. I thought I could "learn the tricks and apply the tactic" to get my W back - then I realized that tactics don't work. Tricks don't work.

Wanna know how I learned them….I learned by rushing and then making things worse when I pushed. I learned by trying to turn things around in my timeline and then getting frustrated when it didn’t happen. I learned this by using tactic to push, control and (sorry you may not like this) subtly manipulate my W in the hope that she would have seen that I have changed. Then something profound happened. I realized that honestly I had not made some of the major changes that I really did want to make. Then I realized that holly chit these change really do take time. Then sweetie…I realized the biggest gift that I have ever received…that DBing is not a tactic…it is not a trick…it really is a way of life.

You are working so hard to save your H, to give him time so that he can snap out of it. You are doing this because you love your H. Consider this….

To love something so much that you will do anything to keep it, is a sign that really what you may be dealing with is not love but rather codependence. To love something so much that all you want is what you want is usually a sign of an unhealthy R.

Now…..to love something so much that you will wait…that you will sit back, live your life, that you will do what you really want to do, that you will let it go and let what God wants to happen, happen in His time, to truly love it even when it decided to do something that YOU do not agree with…well IMO – that is Love.

And that love take time to rebuild, regrow, to allow the seed to blossom into a flower.

Itay, I soooo want your M to work…man if I could only look you in the eyes you’d see it. Trust me. Please honey….take a look at YOU…and I mean really take a look at YOU.

Everytime you are going to do something for YOU I want you to stop for one second and ask yourself….this one simple question….

Is this really for me or am I really doing this because I think this will help get my H back. If the honest answer to yourself is….for ME – then go for it. If the answer, is really I don’t “think or feel” like I want to do this but it may get my H back.. Then you are taking the wrong approach.

I am not a book, I am not a video tape…I am only a guys that has been through hell and I just want to make sure that you do not repeat the mistakes that I have made.

Time, patience’s, love, understanding, communication, peace – read all you want about them, true change comes from within – comes from a commitment that we make to our self – true change is really what DB is about – not tactics.

God Bless,
Eric

[LanceSijan]

PEI & ERIC

Great posts both of you.

One thing that I have learned, and I will try to explain here.
Jack says "there are no tricks here in MLC"

I mostly agree with that however there is one trick.
All the instructions are written down in this forum exactly what one must do.
The "trick" is to listen to them all and follow EXACTLY what they say. No deviation, no half stepped try. You must listen to the advice you are given, verify it in the resources and other written material and carry it out.

Like Eric said sometimes the BEST advice is to do nothing.
If you are unsure what to do, it is the best advice.
Patience is something that is a must learn.

I say the single most important thing you must learn is detachment. I will stick by that advice.

Taylor we are all just trying to tell you that we have been in your shoes, been in the spot that you have been in. We have walked this journey and it is a long road.
You can do it too, you just start by putting one foot in front of the other and moving forward. You can do it,
No one here says you can't. No one is stopping you.
It is all up to YOU!

Knowledge is power.

[PEI]

I realized the biggest gift that I have ever received…that DBing is not a tactic…it is not a trick…it really is a way of life.

Time, patience’s, love, understanding, communication, peace – read all you want about them, true change comes from within – comes from a commitment that we make to our self – true change is really what DB is about – not tactics.

A-freaking-men.

..and thank you for your response on my thread.

You're welcome.

I say the single most important thing you must learn is detachment. I will stick by that advice.

I concur. Absolutely.

Peace
PEI

[ltaylor]

Well guys..not sure what to say except that I think I'm feeling differently about all this than you all think I am. I understand why you would since I have been all over the place these last couple of months.

I hear you saying that detachment is key. That doing stuff for me is key. To slow down on trying to "fix" things. That it isn't going to happen overnight. That I have alot yet to learn (that actually energizes me..cause I like to learn). I just want you guys to know that I get all that. I really do. I have read and read and listened and I understand.

I posted awhile back about the "calm" feeling that had come over me and it's still there. I don't know what happened to get me to that place, but it has put me in a different frame of mind. It didn't happen overnight as it appeared..it was a long process to get there. It has been very gradual..happening over the course of the past year and a half. I'm not saying I know it all, that I know things will work out for us or that we'll be ok. What I'm saying is that I know I will be ok. No matter what happens. And yes, I hope with all my heart that we can save this marriage, but I am not scrambling around thinking about nothing else besides "fixing it" "fixing him" anymore. I was..but I'm not now. I have also taken a break from reading the self-help marriage saving stuff..just because I needed a break. I just want to think about some other stuff for awhile. Not stop working on it or anything like that..but take the focus off of the R and the M for a little bit. The last nine months since the Bomb thing has just exhausted me. And yes I guess it helps that my H seems to be in a different frame of mind too..but I want you to know that I hear you when you tell me that he is not healed and there is plenty more to come on that front. I need to regroup to prepare for that..whatever "that" might be.

Someone said something about the crisis being over. The crisis is not over. In some ways it's just beginning. We are both different people now and if we decide to move forward with our marriage..it will be different too. And it needed to be. I love my husband and will keep trying as long as I want to. If I decide I don't want to do it anymore, then I will take the steps that I deem are right for me..and I hope he will do the same. I'm feeling pretty good, better than I have in a very long time. I'm learning alot about myself and that's always a good thing.

I had to reach a point where I backed off and reflected..I couldn't keep going the way I was. It was too much and would have sent me over the edge if I hadn't gotten a handle on it. We all come to these crossroads in our own time. I'm sure I'll run into alot more of them as I continue my journey. So, I hope you'll all continue to walk along with me and be my friends.

I'm good right now, really. Just taking a brain break.

[ltaylor]

It's been awhile since I've been on the boards. I hope everyone is doing well. I have read a few threads today, while I had a few minutes. I am still busy trying to fix up my resume and find a job. It takes most all of my time..in between mowing, cleaning, cooking, counseling, reading, exercising, errands, and babysitting my grandson when he doesn't have a daycare provider..which seems to be alot lately. I'm feeling good, things are about the same with my M..nothing much has changed.

I really like our new MC..we have seen him twice now and have another appt next Monday. I'm learning alot. I've been able to share some of the skills I'm learning with my kids as they seem to be going thru some stuff of their own with their significant others.

It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood today. 75, sunny and a nice breeze. I have been outside most of the day.

I hope to be able to join Little Friday tonight. I have to drop off some stuff at my son's but should be home in time.

Hope all is well with my friends here.

[punkin]

L,

Glad to see you back. Going on the alt, man, I don't know. After what I went through on Facebook, it's sort of like having an aversion to a food after you barf it up. Don't think I can go there yet. Check out my latest post. See how my day went.

[Grace_O]

Good to hear from you.

Sounds like things are moving in a positive direction for you, as much as they can.

Good luck with the job. It took me quite awhile to find a "regular" job. Still it was an adventure. I hope it goes smoothly for you.

HUGS

[Punktmann]

Taylor,

I had to reach a point where I backed off and reflected..I couldn't keep going the way I was. It was too much and would have sent me over the edge if I hadn't gotten a handle on it. We all come to these crossroads in our own time. I'm sure I'll run into alot more of them as I continue my journey. So, I hope you'll all continue to walk along with me and be my friends.

I'm good right now, really. Just taking a brain break.

We all talk about detachment here. It's different for everyone, easier for some to get to, and for the rest of us, incremental.

Yet, each step is our worthy goal, after which things come into focus a little more. A "brain break" sounds like a pretty good step in the right direction.

Good work.

If I could say one thing, it would be that each time you feel like you've detached, you should understand and expect that there will continually, forever, never-ending, be one more thing that will pull part of it out from under you and that you'll have to rebuild detachment again. The good news is that you get more detached every time and the more detached you are, the better you DB, and the better you are inside.

It doesn't mean you don't love. It means that you can love from afar and let another go their own way, regardless of your situation, however heavy that cross might be to bear. Regardless of their actions. Regardless of other peoples judgments.

Detachment isn't a switch one throws. It is a build-able aspect of our personality which grows as we do. We can contribute to it, or fight it. Others can impact it, but we are ultimately in charge of it. E.g. parents of drug addicts must decide to build this aspect of their personality or not. Either way it is excruciating for them. It's the same for us.

I really like the phrase "brain break!" Good stuff, good work! As you rebuild your ideas about your R, refer to your brain break and keep yourself sane!

Best of luck with the job.



(Miss ya Grace.)

Punkt

[Truegritter]

Detachment isn't a switch one throws. It is a build-able aspect of our personality which grows as we do. We can contribute to it, or fight it. Others can impact it, but we are ultimately in charge of it. E.g. parents of drug addicts must decide to build this aspect of their personality or not. Either way it is excruciating for them. It's the same for us.

This is a pearl of wisdom on detachment...

Thanks Punkt.