whatdidido has changed to whatamigoingtodo

[amorfidelis]

Whatami,

I am fairly new here to the DB forums. I am almost 8 months from D-Day. I saw your post and am strucl by how it appears we have married the exact same man.


Hang in there.
Let's support each other!

[saffie]

I can't imagine that's the only instance of self control not exercised in the marriage... the A being an obvious second...

I have to disagree with you on your premise regarding lack of control and trouble. Your M has had an A in it too. I personally think that by waiting so long to become intimate again you are probably making that side of the R into a problem area. But that is just my personal view. I think there is a big danger of moving into a SSM area and that can cause awful problems.

Sorry for the hijack WDID

[Allen A]

OK, I will handle saffie's point first...

The very common sex before marriage argument is something as follows :


a. You need to have sex before you marry so you get to test drive the car before you buy it


That's the colloquial.

There is the old school argument to which I am alluding :


b. Nothing worth having is earned easily. The longer you wait, the more mature you are. Make a commitment to abstain as a test of your long term viability to one another.


BOTH a and b have merit.. This is a complex debate and I don't intend on resolving this two arguments.

It's not just your personal view saffie, it's a very common one today.

I am just bringing attention back to the old school abstinence viewpoint that's been forgotten.

Yes, it is VERY important to ensure there is sexual compatability etc. I can't dispute that. But when people choose to leap into sex showing no restraint or willingness to wait it does send a hint that self-control issues will appear on the later horizon for some of these poor souls.

And yes it is equally arguable that abstinence for a long time may avoid learning some important facts about your spouse, and if the abstinence is successful it may paint a picture of a sex starved marriage on the long term horizon... Or put as a question in the mind of some : Is he/she waiting because she's mature or because he/she is frigid?

The question then is this :

When and how does one safely integrate sex into a long term commitment such that we learn both that our spouse can demonstrate self-control and that our spouse can satisfy us sexually as well?

That is not an easy question to resolve.. I won't touch that one, that belongs on the SSM forum.

[newmama]

glad to see you will answer Whatami's questions since this is her thread lol!!

But I just want to say that from what I have read, the betrayed husbands OFTEN avoid sex with their former wayward wives once the affair is over. So maybe it is due to the differences in a man v woman thing! I know that I would be wanting to "claim my territory" again if WH and I reconcile.

[Allen A]

Allen- I don't need you to acknowledge my feelings or even understand them, but I'm going to keep telling them because they are important. Perhaps we will help each other.

You said to write down specifically what I need from my partner. I did. What about what I came up with?

OK, lets have a look... I have had similar challenges with my own spouse, so this is of particular interest to me...

1. Find one interest that makes you happy and do it at least once a week. Share your thoughts and feelings about this interest with me.

OK... I am wondering at the moment what he does with his time... What are the actions he does regularly, what are his daily routines?

Sports? Computer games? Chess? Skydiving? Does he play Piano? What does he DO with his time at the moment?

2. Find some guy friends that you have fun with, and do something with one or more of them at least once a week. Share your "good times" and thoughts after spending time with them, with me.

OK, this is an interesting one... I have heard it myself from my own spouse...

I am going to give you a homework assignment for this one. There's a great film that came out in 2008 called I Love you Man. The story is a romantic comedy about a young man who asks his girlfriend to marry him. He's handsome, mature, well-mannered, gainfully employed... The problem? He's a great catch, He's had a few relationships prior to this one with other women long term and he invested all of his time into them. This guy has no guy friends. He has no "buddy" or "drinkin pals" to speak of to invite to his wedding party... So, he and his wife have this dilemna, who is goign to be in his wedding party? He sets out on a quest for the remainder of the film : Find some freinds, make a good friend you can invite to be your best man at least...

The film is very good and funny too... His girlfriend DOES get him to make a friend, who turns out to quite the hell raiser and this fella's girlfriend gets her fiancee to have his pal AND more than they both bargained for in the deal...

Watch the film...

I am going to suggest that for NOW 1 above may take care of 2... That's often how that happens... Watch the film with your H, it may be educational for you both.

3. Tell me good thoughts and bad thoughts as you have them.

OK, this is a bit vague, but do-able. I am thinking "If you feel scared, tell me when you do and why...", "if you feel lonely, tell me when you do and why.." etc...

It gives your H a bit more direction... Us guys are trainable... you just have to make the dots close to one another...

Maybe we can put a list of emotions you want to hear about specifically so he can build on them for you...

4. Tell me when you are angry and why.

OK, this is kinda like yours and my spin on 3 above...

5. Be upbeat and make plans on your own of what you want to do.

Curious, be upbeat meaning he's not cheerful at all? You think he is feeling sad lately? I am hoping 1 above will drive this one again...

Those things would move me toward that feeling I need to have toward him.....give me something to be attracted to...I thought they were specific....are they not?

They are more specific than before. I am really looking for an instruction manual... Kinda like a To DO list to make whatamigoingtodo happy.

What I am long term leading you into this something like this :

A whole yearlong calendar. Done in an actual pinpup calendar OR on an EXCEL spreadsheet if you like computers.

EACH DAY has a TO DO item on it that will make YOU happy... 365 of them... almost like an errand run

April 1 : Buy card, roses for whatmigoingtodo with a note "Just Thinking of you..."
April 2 : Tell whatamigoingtodo about what happened at work that day, no matter how boring... Tell her the whole story
April 3 : Go out to a movie on my own, pick one that I want to see and tell whatamigoingtodo the whole film as a story when I get back

etc

365 days...

That's long term where I am going with this... but right now the list isn't specific enoguh or NEARLY as long as we need it to be..

THe idea was you fill the calendar, and then give it to your H as a gift... a GIFT, not an ultimatum...

If he is passive aggressive this is a great idea... he doenst' HAVE to do ALL of the work.. you would likely be happy if he did even 10 or 15% of it... Your H can even have a few blanks to fill in of his own design AND he can swap days if he wants.. its customizable for him...

See where I am gonig?

It would work as a manual of how to please you... a specific, visual, BOOK of simple do-able ideas he can implement as written without much planning or financial investment (keep the tasks low cost and executable in one day)

I dunno if you have seen Fireproof, but the Love Dare introduced in that film is similar to this idea...

I am doing a more realistic 365 days instead of a measly 40 which isnt' realistic... AND the love dare can be a bit off-putting in that it's not very flexible... you cant swap days and it isn't designed to include work to make YOUR day more intresting, only the WS... Anyway

I'm way over trying to get some sweeping romance. I just want to desire him, to be attracted to him, to want to be around him, I want more than a roommate.

OK, and keep that criteria in mind when building the list I outlined above...

I'm around enough married people to know that they desire each other. I see it in the flirting, the touching, the innuendos about sex later that night.....nothing happens like that with my H and I. Never has.

I find it hard to believe it never has... I can very easily believe that you can't find those moments right now... They must be there, few and simple, lost in the shuffle of daily routines, conflict, child-rearing, and the challenges of marriage over the long term...

Again, look at my list and let me know where I need to be more specific.

A few are good as is, some overlap others, see above for the details

The flower thing was ONE example. It was an easy thing to do, something he knew to do, and he purposefully did not do it. I will talk more to him about it, and we'll see what happens the next Valentine's Day...but I would almost bet money it will be the same thing. I almost will have to badger him and remind him every day for a week prior to make sure it happens...and then,......after all that......it's not the same, is it?

Michele covered this in her DVD. To her mind if your spouse does something to meet a need of yours it's an act of love and you should accept it without further analysis. The idea that he's doing it because you badgered him, or because he doens't want you to be mad at him etc is errorneous. If he buys you the flowers, enjoy them and put the analysis in the trashcan where it belongs... It won't help you to second guess your spouses motives or expect their motives to be different than what they are.

You have to realize that MWD is aiming for a SBT approach here.. meaning that the ACTION comes first, and FEELINGS will follow gradually over time.

He can buy you flowers and be even bitter about it... as long as he buys them
You can accept them, and even be bitter about it because you had to badger him

Over TIME as it is done more often, his bitterness and your bitterness will gradually soften into something much warmer and the feelings YOU are looking for will follow.. That's the theory of SBT... DO NOW, feel later. Invest in actions, with good feelings being the dividend.

Ok, maybe we haven't tried everything. That's what I was hoping I would hear from people on here. I need that support and advice. Because when I tell you how I feel and tell you that it FEELS like I have tried everything, I truly believe that.

I believe you feel like you've tried everything, but no I don't believe you have tried everything... subtle but important difference.

My husband not only doesn't know how to be romantic, he doesn't know how to show himself to anyone....he doesn't open up, doesn't have a personality, would say so much himself.....he doesn't know who he is!

He has a personality, everyone does. But he likely does NOT EXPRESS that to you or many, maybe not anyone... There IS someone in there... I can promise you that...

No, he doesn't think this is funny. He called a therapist because he knows he needs help, we need help.......

That's a good start...

Why not tell us about him to start with, it may spring some ideas in some of the posters here... what does he like to eat, listen to, see, read, and do with this time?

[Lotus]

In sign language, the sign for horny is the same as the sign for hungry, but done with more enthusiasm. Ever since I studied sign language, I have equated the two human hungers. I know for sure that if my husband said there was to be no eating at home, I would go to a restaurant. No one is cutting off my need for sustenance. And I am sure he feels the same way. IMO, if there is no sex, all bets are off on the marriage.

Sorry, Didi, I know that sounds harsh. But as so many people say, there are dealbreakers. For me, a sexless marriage is the biggest dealbreaker.

[Allen A]

A spouse cannot expect their sex life to be back to normal suddenly simply because an affair is ended (regardless of them being a LBS or WS).. healing takes time... MWD was very clear about that in her books...

And the idea that one throw about sex ultimatiums in the immediate aftermath of an affair is a bit ridiculous...

[Lotus]

Certainly, sex is a personal issue. And I don't mean to compare my sex life with others; that serves no useful purpose. Everyone must deal with it in their own way. I do believe that sexual compatibility is one of the cornerstones of marriage, though. And therefore, it is a very important issue to work out. It is good that Didi and her husband are taking a serious approach to this problem and trying to work it out.

[Esox]

I don't think anyone is advising throwing around sexual ultimatums. One of the most important things you can do for your marriage is to find out your spouse's emotional needs and work dang hard to meet them. If one spouse has a strong need for sex and the other spouse ignores/fails to meet that need there will be consequences in the marriage.

Allen, in your case, I can certainly see a valid concern for postponing sex of a period of time until you heal a bit. But if your wife is high drive and you are denying her sex (out of shame, or anger, or resentment, or whatever) then over time this behavior will hurt your marriage. And yes I realize that your wife has already hurt it plenty.

[Allen A]

Allen, in your case, I can certainly see a valid concern for postponing sex of a period of time until you heal a bit. But if your wife is high drive and you are denying her sex (out of shame, or anger, or resentment, or whatever) then over time this behavior will hurt your marriage. And yes I realize that your wife has already hurt it plenty.

In whatamidoingtodo's case Esox it is whatamigoingtodo who HAD the AFFAIR, and her HUSBAND is not pursuing sex right now... My household situation is the same as hers, but we are in the differeing roles... me being the LBS and her having been the WS

The sex-starved marriage is a complex subject, in the aftermath of an affair this is exponentially so...

I am not dismissing the importance of a sexual relationship in a marriage, but the suggestion that "all bets are off" doens't smack of a cooperative approach to a negotiation at all... Sex in particular is a delicate subject... With a painful affair thrown into the history this delicate subject becomes a thin sheet of glass...

Handle with care can't be emphasized enough here...