So the Six pillars book was good? My hope was reading these type of books would provide me insight on building and maintaining self-esteem in a structured manner, and to perhaps better understand it.
Oh man, Daddy it's changing my life. I've got both the paperback book and the audio book and have been listening/reading both, just to make sure all the concepts soak into my mind.
And, it's very well-written, very structured and sensible. I cannot recommend it enough. He begins by explaining the two primary components of self-esteem - self-efficacy and self-respect. After that he talks about the 'face of self-esteem', the illusion of self esteem - things people use to try to raise their self-esteem that don't work, then goes into the six pillars. There's also excellent exercises for each pillar. It's a very thorough and well-thought out reference book. I hope you try it and have as much good experiences with it as I have had!
I cannot complain for not receiving from others, that which I've never asked them for.
Part of respecting him is knowing that he has a choice of whether or not to respond to my requests, but can I live with his response? If I can't, can I live with mine?
Right now, I'm in my own withdrawal.
It's not about self-esteem, right now, because I know I can live without a relationship with him, and I can live without a relationship with anyone. I don't "need" a man to be happy and satisfied. I do have a life outside of romantic relationships. If nothing else, I have a fulfilling and extreme thought-life. ;p
I'm also not saying I don't expect answers, but I am saying that I expect them, in time. I ask for the answers, and he'll either say he'll tell me later, or that was all of them (which usually those ARE satsifactory), or indicate that he's not ready to talk about them right then. Just because I'm not satisfied doesn't mean he hasn't answered, at least, in part. That's the part I'm referring to as the answer being unsatisfactory...it isn't complete. When he's put me off, due to the presence of his flatmate, I have asked for a time frame. He doesn't seem to do well with them, and neither do I, so I try not to ask for it. I just try to remember to ask when I think it's a suitable time for him to discuss it, and that has worked out fairly well.
Also, I hope you will trust me when I say that I'm very loud when I feel disrespected. Yeah, that doesn't go over very well. The problem now is to learn when I'm truly being disrespected, and when I'm not, or when certain deeds strike me as disrespectful, regardless of intent and how able I am to cope with them.
Let me also take this moment to say that there are significant buffers between him and me. It doesn't mean I don't hurt, but I do think the hurt could be much greater, if those buffers weren't in place. I'm more able to look at my situation with him with logic, rather than just feelings. One of those is that I'm continuing with the notion that he and I are "just friends," right now, until and unless we can come to some sort of understanding, and that does include deep talks about why he does some of the things he does. I cannot go forward in a relationship without that understanding. It has to be real, not synthesized by my mind.
You certainly did NOT give the impression that abusive situations shouldn't end. You would know if that was my understanding. lol!
I'm NOT offended, at all! I hope you can see that I'm just running down the situation in light of your post, not taking offense or feeling defensive. I have areas where I don't perceive myself well, but other areas, I have no trouble with esteem. I have been through the ringer, and to stand up for myself has been a challenge, but I've finally learned how to do that. This R may be another keystone in that process, and I'm willing, for whatever reason, I'm not entirely sure, to go back into the fray for this guy.
I'm willing to be patient, to influence, and to hopefully, embark on a new relationship with him. All the while, you are right that I need to keep my self-esteem in check. If I get into the red on my self-esteem, I will know that I just can't continue in the R, and I will back away. I was seeing the possibility of strong hits to my esteem, and that is why I backed off to friendship. Can't go there, again. Can't feed the depression. I won't sacrifice myself, as there are others who depend on me.
So the Six pillars book was good? My hope was reading these type of books would provide me insight on building and maintaining self-esteem in a structured manner, and to perhaps better understand it.
Oh man, Daddy it's changing my life. I've got both the paperback book and the audio book and have been listening/reading both, just to make sure all the concepts soak into my mind.
And, it's very well-written, very structured and sensible. I cannot recommend it enough. He begins by explaining the two primary components of self-esteem - self-efficacy and self-respect. After that he talks about the 'face of self-esteem', the illusion of self esteem - things people use to try to raise their self-esteem that don't work, then goes into the six pillars. There's also excellent exercises for each pillar. It's a very thorough and well-thought out reference book. I hope you try it and have as much good experiences with it as I have had!
I'm going to be checking out audio books, thanks for the feedback. I will get it as soon as I can afford it, prolly the next paycheck.
Oh man, Daddy it's changing my life. I've got both the paperback book and the audio book and have been listening/reading both, just to make sure all the concepts soak into my mind.
It's such a long process, but I'm glad you're well on your way. Also, I didn't mean to imply that I don't have things to learn. I think we all can continue to improve, even, perhaps the author of this book you're referring to.
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And, it's very well-written, very structured and sensible. I cannot recommend it enough. He begins by explaining the two primary components of self-esteem - self-efficacy and self-respect. After that he talks about the 'face of self-esteem', the illusion of self esteem - things people use to try to raise their self-esteem that don't work, then goes into the six pillars.
This does sound interesting. It's kind of funny, because I told my SO/friend person that I didn't care if he went to Timbuktu, just that he needed to get his self-esteem issues taken care of. lol.
I definitely think he falls into this trap, as does my ex. I have reason to think that my ex is a narcissist, and for him, he can always find narcissistic supply. But for the new guy, praise from me or others has only a temporary effect on his self-esteem. He needs to learn these things at his core. He needs to know and believe he truly has the value, or he will always suspect someone's praise, and he will never be able to withstand self-esteem hits. Also, he'll always struggle with whether to believe the negative or the positive, and will likely give more weight to the negative.
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There's also excellent exercises for each pillar. It's a very thorough and well-thought out reference book. I hope you try it and have as much good experiences with it as I have had!
I went through The Search for Significance, which was pretty well-done. It helped and I keep referring back, in my mind. My counselor was also having me do these exercises to help me realize my value.
And yeah, in light of that, I'm sure that my last post seems rather odd, heh.
Okay...thank you for your frank response...I deal that way too.
I'm not new here so my first question is....your premed...or was....what are you a premed of? You have awesome replies to every question and analyzations of the ex and your male friend now.
Okay...don't get me wrong....you are here to save a relationship. You have never lived with him.....sooooo....moving in with each other is not an option?
Okay, so a summary of things I'm asking for/needing/wanting from this board:
--help with 180, feedback and tweaking, along with accountability. --any other insight into how to deal with my boundaries (which are apparently sloppily applied). My counselor suggested I reread Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. --how to get out of this quagmire of inequality, without necessarily giving up the R. Is there a way?
What are your goals? Is one to not react when he tries to get your goat? Do you also want him to initiate more contact/time with you?
What is he doing that is causing you to want boundaries in place?
How do you feel your R is inequitable?
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
lol...people ask me these questions, and find that I"ve given the simple answer. I'm not a premed in the usual sense. I have a premedical major, but I'm not going to med school. My actual major is a double one, Biotechnology and Molecular Biology & Microbiology. Really, I'm "pre-research." lol.
I'm still not done with this major, 2-4 more classes, whichever way you look at it. I've taken time off, just due to the sheer strain of my life, right now.
Thanks for the compliment. My life's been really, really exhausting, the past 7 months.
What are your goals? Is one to not react when he tries to get your goat? Do you also want him to initiate more contact/time with you?
What is he doing that is causing you to want boundaries in place?
How do you feel your R is inequitable?
Thanks for your replies, FA and newmama, before I go on.
I would just like to stop reacting. Mostly, my knee-jerk reactions are appropriate for my ex.
Let me describe my new guy like this: he's very cat-like. Mostly, I find this acceptable, due to all I know about it. I mean he's cat-like in that he seems to be very skittish about him and me. He won't go where he's not comfortable. He doesn't seem to mind my presence, but he comes closer when he's ready.
Again, I mostly am okay with that. I don't see it about him trying to control me, but him being comfortable with me, as a person who potentially has great influence over him, and a powerful ability to hurt, given the nature of the would-be relationship.
The boundaries come in because of the degree to which I feel his rejection. I want to be closer, and sometimes, we are. I want to be consistently closer, though, even though he wants to "hide under the bed."
The inequality comes because...in his effort to get away, he disregards my feelings. I'm really having to think this out, because I know what I know, and when I have some pieces squared, others don't seem to fit, right away, but then, some sort of validation comes that I'm on the right track, so just because things seem askew doesn't mean they are wrong. He's an interesting...um...cat. ;p
So, by his seeming disregard for my feelings, one might say, "He doesn't really care about you," or "He's playing you," or even, "He's leading you on." To be honest, these conclusions don't fit as well as the cat scenario. I fully believe that if he decided he was done, he would tell me.
That doesn't mean I should stick around, though. It's obviously hurting me, even though I can rationalize his behavior. As prairiegirl suggested, I think influencing him is a good idea. I really still like my open-handed approach. For a skittish cat (I own one), nothing builds trust better, and he's harped a bit on trust. lol. I think he may take for granted that HE has no ill-intentions, but forgets that I don't either, and if I have to prove myself, he does, as well. The other odd thing I can't seem to square is that in 10 months, he hasn't learned to trust me more than he has? I can find my reactivity at fault, here, but at the same time, I've done a number of other things to show that I am in for the long-haul, that I am not interested in anyone else, and that I'm willing to trust and to build trust.
The truth is, I don't want to date. I'm perfectly okay with being alone. I wasn't entirely ready for him, but certain things he said and demonstrated convinced me. They keep me here, waiting and wanting to get this worked out.
Umm, why don't you just ask him what you need to do so that he will trust you or how he's going to know he can trust himself?
To be serious, it takes a bit longer than 10 months for most people to begin to lock in. The first 18-24 months are the honeymoon phase for most men, so it's difficult to imagine what things are going to be like when that wears off.
Maybe there are things from your marriage that you haven't worked out that you are trying to work out in this relationship?
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
You would know if that was my understanding. lol!