My quick over is - I have a 42 year old husband in MLC - we have been living apart since October 1st 2009. We have been together 18 years and married for 14. There is an OW involved (an ex-girlfriend of 5 years from 25 years ago). We have to children aged 11 and 8. I believe my husband has been in MLC for at least 18 months - his Mum died when he was 15 and his father remarried within a year and moved on with his life (2 further chidren) - his Mum's death was very badly handled by his whole family. I believe he is still in Replay and I have witnessed very recent touch and go with friends and his family. He is still angry with me - I am firmly NC unless about our children - last angry outburst was February 14th - he still blames me for his affair and the breakdown of our marriage - his Dad also got an anger outbusrt that day too. He has spent an awful lot of borrowed money in the last year and I do not really know how he's making ends meet but that's not my problem. I am having counselling, cracking on with my life and seeking to protect the children from the fallout of this situation.
My question is about "children" I have witnessed my husband becoming - the thing is I have witnessed them for the last 18 months and I would be quite startled by them. One is almost like a teenager - obsessed with porn and masterbation, saying really inappropriate things at inappropriate times etc. Very angry, flouncing out of the house, slamming doors etc. Believes he has the right to do as he pleases.
The other "child" is less beligerant but very demanding - feels like he is younger maybe 11/12 or so as I see some characteristics of my son - is more helpless and needy - maybe more passive/aggressive type character.
I could do with a perspective - I had read that children only emerge during Withdrawal/ Accpetance stages but my husband was still in the early stages of his MLC whne I witnessed these 2. I still see the teenager in occassional paranoid outbursts.
Is this my mind playing tricks on me or is this part of the whole MLC journey?
Any help anyone can offer me would be really apprecaited.
lalxx
Choose Life Me: 45 Him: 44 S:11 D:8 Met in 1992 Married in 1995 Bomb drop September 30th 2009 Divorce final April 16th 2011 exH Marries OW June 17th 2011
Is this my mind playing tricks on me or is this part of the whole MLC journey?
No, your mind is NOT playing tricks on you, and the "children" are but a part of the MLC journey. They are the children of his issues, it is my understanding that something happened to them around those ages, and that is why they show up to speak their piece.
It was also my understanding that the children generally show up in the Acceptance stage; that is how I'd seen it when it was happening to my husband years ago.
BUT-the stages can mix up and not go in any one order; as I've seen from reading different people's posts.
From what I'm reading on you, your husband is still firmly planted in Replay; the OW is not gone, and the "seeds" of different stages are within him. He is having a terrible time with this; and you're right to continue to let him go, and get on with your life; dealing with no more than you have to in the way of his drama.
When/if he gets into the actual acceptance stage, they may show once again; even if they back away before then.
I'm trying to remember if I saw any children before the Acceptance stage, and the only thing I can come up with in memory; is that the problems my husband had outbursts/porn problems/OW were evidence of teenage behavior; and that was VERY evident during Replay. I remember it fading as he got rid of the OW, dumped the porn, suffered the withdrawal from her, and came forward into Depression then Withdrawal. That took time to complete. The second child I didn't see until Acceptance.
When he headed into Acceptance, I saw the break/disintegration, and it was two children I saw. The outbursts didn't come that time, just the children. The most my husband did in that stage as the teenager was complain and loudly. The other one was 4 years old, and loved affection, the more he could get, the better.
I can understand you being startled by them..you never know what you're going to be facing from one day to the next.
Do not know if this will help, but I thought I'd at least tell you that you're not losing your mind; what you're seeing is not a trick of the mind. This is real, not only to you, but to him. He seems to be in a place before you met him, and if you look at him, you'll see he doesn't "know" you..and that is really startling. I've seen that, too.
Have a good one.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
I agree to disagree w/what HB has stated. The children will appear in replay and will continue throughout until they have resolved all of their issues. HB may have seen the children appear in h's situation during acceptance, but the cases that I have had the "pleasure" of witnessing have begun in replay and carried forth until the final settling.
They have to go back in time to the where they were emotionally stunted; and in many cases, that was when they were very young or teens....that's why you see them pop out periodically. They have to go back and deal w/the issues and learn how to grow up. They are "teething" when they are acting out as young adults. It's normal and if you can step back and detach from the drama, you will see and hear many things that will clue you in as to where they are in the "age" stunted periods.
Step back, allow him to grow up, give him plenty of space and above all, dig deeper than you ever have for patience. Please try not to take what he says or does personally, for he is lashing out at the authority figure from long ago and the demons that have been buried so deeply for such a long time. Try to focus on you and your family, be kind to yourself, plan things that will keep your mind off of him and his behavior, above all keeping saying to yourself: "this is all about him, not about me".
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you so very much indeed for your posts HeartsBlessing and Snodderly, I really appreaite your time and perspective.
My husband is definietly still in Replay and the teenager i see would be the 15 year old boy who has juts lost his Mum. I would raise my eyes to the heavens last year and complain it was like living with a teenager - if only I knew then what I know now!
Is it possibe that there are also physical changes too that mirror a teenager?? My husband developed quite bad spots on his face like a teenager and also he smelled different (weird I know but he just smelt different and I could never put my finger on it). He would sweat more too in the last year or so we lived together.
I am continuing my stance of quiet hopefulness whilst building a life for me and my 2 children.
Thank you once again for your posts - they helped answer a small question which ahd been rattlinga round in my head for a while!
lalxx
Choose Life Me: 45 Him: 44 S:11 D:8 Met in 1992 Married in 1995 Bomb drop September 30th 2009 Divorce final April 16th 2011 exH Marries OW June 17th 2011
Those are interesting insights. I'm going to post a few things on my sitch over at my posting area so i don't hijack this thread. I'd like some insight by HB and the Snod on them if possible. thx!
Is it possibe that there are also physical changes too that mirror a teenager?? My husband developed quite bad spots on his face like a teenager and also he smelled different (weird I know but he just smelt different and I could never put my finger on it). He would sweat more too in the last year or so we lived together.
Quite definitely and this was from my own experience; there are changes that "mirror" a teenager, my husband DID sweat more, when he wasn't having hot flashes.
There WAS a strong smell on him; most likely caused by an overload of testosterone; he went from one extreme (low testosterone) to the other(high testosterone)..Our son was going though puberty at the same time my husband was going through MLC, so I KNOW for a fact, he and my husband, smelled EXACTLY the same; and it really surprised me. And it was STRONG..I never said anything to him about it; didn't want to make things worse. Apparently my husband must have been smelling it on himself, as he started taking as many as three showers a day. Then, when that didn't help, he literally poured on the cologne..anything to get rid of the smell; but until it was all said and done...it really never left him.
It always reminded me of a locker room in a gym..that's the closest I've ever come to describing that smell.
Thanks Snodderly for helping me out on the children. I'd thought, when I posted that, that I might NOT have it quite right. I remember clearly the ending, but not much during the crisis, and the memories I have come back in pieces.
I'm sorry, Lalxx, if I'd confused you in any way; that was not my intention; my husband's crisis ended 7 or 8 years ago, followed by my own, which lasted 6 years...and it has really fragmented my memories. I healed totally, as I was supposed to, but there are some things I will never remember correctly. I'd seen your post had been sitting for a time, and thought I'd at least reassure you that your mind was NOT on vacation. When it was me, I thought the same thing as you, when I'd first seen the children.Thought I was seeing things, or worse; I'd thought I'd cracked up from going through it for so long.
Our son saw them, too, so I knew we both couldn't be crazy...made me feel better that I wasn't "seeing things" that weren't there.
Believe it or not, I've talked about it in the past, and I've gotten some of the strangest looks you ever saw from people who've decided my imagination was pretty big. LOL!!
Have a good one.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Hi guys. Just wanted to thank you for the topic. I was reading this last night and it really hit me like one of Jack's patented 2x4's. I can actually identify two distinct "children" that I see in my own MLC. One who is about 6 and one who is a teenager. Both of those times are very significant for me. This was truly eye opening. Should be a good conversation tomorrow with the IC.
Thanks again!
_________________________ Me-41 W-39 M-15 yrs T-17 yrs D-12 S-9 S-8 B 5/08 S 1/09
HeartsBlessing - thank you for your post and you didn't confuse me at all - MLC confuses me sometimes but your post help me enormously to realise that I wasn't going completely bonkers.
The human spirit is an amazing thing and you seem to have weathered the emotional rollercoaster of not one but two MLC's and are still smiling and standing face o the sun to tell the tale.
I have found a little bit of peace when I 'help' my peers who are going through this journey. There are some incredibly kind and generous people who help, depsite their own pain and the impact they have on others will often go unheard - so thank you HeartsBlessing and Snodderly from the bottom of my breaking heart for your kindness.
C-Bart - wow your own MLC - I hope your session with your IC has gone well and you were bale to understand a little bit more about your situation and the influences these children have on you. My husband is in such pain and is still in deep deep replay so he will have no cognisence of his situation i imagine. This next request is without hope or agenda but a genuine wish to understand more - would you be abe to PM me with your sitch and what insights your IC gave you please? I would understand totally if you felt this course of action inappropriate but the knowledge I have gained from this Forum and various others has stood me in good stead and helped me make some right decisions for me and my 2 children. The time may be now or way in the future but I would welcome the chance to understand more.
Peace be with you all this evening
lalxx
Choose Life Me: 45 Him: 44 S:11 D:8 Met in 1992 Married in 1995 Bomb drop September 30th 2009 Divorce final April 16th 2011 exH Marries OW June 17th 2011
HeartsBlessing - thank you for your post and you didn't confuse me at all - MLC confuses me sometimes but your post help me enormously to realise that I wasn't going completely bonkers.
The human spirit is an amazing thing and you seem to have weathered the emotional rollercoaster of not one but two MLC's and are still smiling and standing face o the sun to tell the tale.
I hear you on that one. I sometimes feel as though I weathered quite a storm by going through his, then mine; but all things happen for a reason, and honestly; time DOES heal all wounds, regardless of how it all comes out. Memories do fade; and I was surprised at how quickly they did on me. All I retained were some "key" things out of this, mainly associated with the lessons I learned, even though I forgave all that was done to me. Because, if I forget what was done; I would forget the lesson learned; repeating the mistake at a later time, if that makes sense. I can see that from where I stand now. I never got total understanding for EVERYTHING that happened, but I can live with that, and did let it all go in time.
I do NOT live in the past, but live within the future, having learned also, the past has contributed to what I became..and that was a much better person than I was before. So, I'm VERY thankful for what I endured.
The only other reason I sometimes remember certain things is for "help" purposes, and then it is gone once again..back into whatever corner of my mind that it resides in The memories do not torment me at all, I accepted all these things long ago, integrating them into my life.
Life is always fraught with problems, but I feel I gained through both storms, the necessary tools to cope and deal with whatever life throws at me. It was a hard struggle, but I made it through.
And you will, too.
To me, NO ONE fails; this is not a test where you score based on how well you do. I see NO ONE as a failure, regardless of how it all comes out... the journey within to find YOU must be taken by all people, at their own pace; sometimes it is long and arduous, but worth every minute spent growing into what we are meant to be.
And, you know, I have found the growing really doesn't stop; it continues in many aspects. I found, back then, that while helping others helped me to heal, I learned just as much from them, as they did from me.
In time, the Lord healed me of all the pain from both my childhood, and marriage; and so on I go, by the Grace of God.
During my own journey, I found that ALL things come from within; we really do not need others to tell us we are doing well; you gain enough confidence within yourself to know how you are; personal happiness, self affirmation, self confidence and self esteem are not "arrogance"; these things are good when we learn to build them within ourselves.
It's OK, when you have great confidence and faith in yourself; you need those tools to learn to cope and deal in this world. We cannot and should not get them from any one person; we need to learn to know ourselves and our limitations; drawing boundaries when needed to protect ourselves.
There will come a time when boundaries are needed, and only YOU will know when to apply them..and when that time will be.
For now, it is enough to understand that the only person you can control in this life is YOU, not other people...this is the HARDEST lesson to learn in life.
I do alot of counseling in 3-D; and teach these same lessons to others; in other situations; most situations I encounter nowadays, have nothing to do with MLC.
Yet, I drive a truck for a living, LOL!!
Remember to try and separate the behavior from the person, that will help you to have a lot more compassion for him, Lalxx.
I remember having a hard time doing that, but when I finally accomplished that, I was more able to be compassionate toward him, although he was suspicious of me for awhile.
Blessings to you, Lalxx, may God continue to be with you and your husband as this is navigated, and regardless of how it comes out; know you will NOT fail; more will be gained out of this trial than you know.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Don't know if you have seen this post but I will put it here for your convenience.
Sorry you are here but you will find that this is a wonderful place. You will meet lots of really great people that can help you with YOUR journey. Start with the detach link.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
Remember that in the stages of MLC it does NOT go 1,2,3,4,5,6 but can get all mixed up and repeat itself and have more than one stage at once. Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
