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Re: Will I ever be forgiven??? [Re: sandi2] #1964967
03/23/10 11:33 AM
03/23/10 11:33 AM
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musclegal Offline
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Thanks Sandi. Its a good reminder. Reminds me a little of Meryl Streep in "Its Complicated" when she admits to XH that she wasn't perfect, either and she had made mistakes. Only she didn't have to admit anything because he had an affair, so he was the bad guy.

I guess I'm struggling with the forgiveness question myself, too, and Mom of 2 Cherubs question made me think of a lot of things as the LBS. It is always good to recognize and to want forgiveness from someone if we've hurt them.

Last edited by musclegal; 03/23/10 11:36 AM.
Re: Will I ever be forgiven??? [Re: musclegal] #1965782
03/24/10 10:35 AM
03/24/10 10:35 AM
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sandi2 Offline
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I am so blessed that I have a H who understands forgiveness and can apply it. If it had been turned around, I don't know that I could have done it. He showed trust in a huge way. He did not demand transparency like it is suggested here by many people......but he did not have DBing tools, he just did what he thought was right for him. It must have been so hard to not check up on me, and I think he probably did check the computer history out for quite some time.....but it did not bother me b/c I owed that to him.

The main thing that I appreciated in my H was that he never threw it up in my face. He doesn't mention OM or what I did. He knows that that was not "me" and that I am back to my old self. What I learned is that I am capable of doing things that I used to look down my nose at others, so when or if I ever recognize that I am having signs of problems that sucked me into that realm.....I will be asking for help before I let it pull me in. I can look back and see where the condition I was in made me a perfect canidate for an EA. That's why I said that people have to protect themselves.

Forgiviness has to be an act of "will"and it takes time for the "feelings" to come. I have had to forgive others for different things in my life, but forgiving myself of an EA was the hardest thing I've ever faced. I have found that I have to continue to do it over and over again. Maybe that is what the S has to do also.

Forgiviness is never about "deserving". The wayward S does not deserve forgiveness. None of us really deserve forgiveness of anything, but it is for the wellfare of the one who is doing the forgiveness. It sets you free when you forgive. It heals both parties. Unforgiveness turns into terrible bitterness and that can be the foundation of all sorts of diseases. The S that was betrayed owes it to himself/herself to be able to set themselves free of unforgivenss and move on with living.

I am never easy on the S that has an A. But, I think in some cases I am more understanding than I use to be.

Thanks for listening.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: Will I ever be forgiven??? [Re: sandi2] #1965916
03/24/10 02:59 PM
03/24/10 02:59 PM
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dday101798 Offline
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Ditto on what Sandi said, especially on the forgiveness portion for the betrayed spouse. I've seen a few folks 'piecing' that still carry that anger at the WAS for the A and simply don't understand how they CAN be piecing? To me it's more like a lava flow under a sleeping volcano, will it subside or will there be an eruption?

Additionaly, in the beginning of our re-birth, I would have liked for 'transparency' with (x)W, but without computers involved and a tight nit town, it all works anyway. I admit to checking her phone log a couple times, conversely, I'm certain she has checked mine, so it's fair. However, the major relief is that (x)W has been open, sometimes more than I wish for in regards to her A with OM, that helps.


Me 35/XW 33
S13 & S12
M: 10/17/98
OM & S: 07/08
D final 06/09/09
12/03/09 - 06/13/10 "Piercing"
06/13/10: Engaged to Re-marry 10/17/10
06/25/10: Expecting baby #3 2/14/11
Re: Will I ever be forgiven??? [Re: dday101798] #1965968
03/24/10 03:56 PM
03/24/10 03:56 PM
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AtTheEnd? Offline
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I still feel the betrayal and feel a certain lack of trust for my WAS, but then again, we don't have any sort of R. She was deep into the EA, buying a new cell phone, on the computer at all times, hiding everything. I was a wreck, and it didn't matter what I did, everything was wrong or bad. I'd never seen anger like that, but then after a few months, it all stopped. I even found her pricing and searching for plane tickets to go and see OM. A few months into this, she told me that she was going to go to him, but that he was a jerk. Later denied even saying that. She would often say something, then later deny saying it. All of this was very painful, and I understand the WAS being in a fog and such, but what's to say that won't come back again? I suppose trying for the sake of the children is best, if it were to ever come to that, but how do you trust again?

A friend was telling me that the OM was merely a crutch to get her through the hardest part, and once she didn't need him, she would move onward with the D. OM will never last. MIL said that the OM was only boosting WAS's self esteem. He was safe being so far away, and that it was helping WAS feel better. Not really sure what to think about it, but I do know that I'd rather not even think about it at this point. I guess that's why I'm interested in this thread. I want to know if we were to reconcile, will my WAS know what she has done to the LBS. I own up to my part in the disintegration of our R, apologized for it, and then tried to become the best person that I could (well, this is a constant work-in-progress). I just won't be able to work on anything if she continues to blame me for 100% of the problems.


M:39 W:37
Together: 16 years
Married: 11 years
Bomb: May '09 (ILYBNILWY)
Moved out: Nov '09
D: 10, 8, 4
Re: Will I ever be forgiven??? [Re: AtTheEnd?] #1965983
03/24/10 04:11 PM
03/24/10 04:11 PM
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dday101798 Offline
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Originally Posted By: AtTheEnd?
I just won't be able to work on anything if she continues to blame me for 100% of the problems.


And you CAN'T, and you're RIGHT. Once the WAS owns up to their part, the road to brighter days, no matter what the destination, can start to be traveled.

EDIT - however, you need to be cleansed of that feeling of betrayel. I truly believe as indicated by "Mom" here, the WAS is hesitant to approach the LBS so long as that anger and resentment is harbored by the LBS. Even my (x)W has said so of me.

Last edited by dday101798; 03/24/10 04:15 PM.

Me 35/XW 33
S13 & S12
M: 10/17/98
OM & S: 07/08
D final 06/09/09
12/03/09 - 06/13/10 "Piercing"
06/13/10: Engaged to Re-marry 10/17/10
06/25/10: Expecting baby #3 2/14/11
Re: Will I ever be forgiven??? [Re: AtTheEnd?] #1966217
03/24/10 08:28 PM
03/24/10 08:28 PM
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sandi2 Offline
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Quote:
I want to know if we were to reconcile, will my WAS know what she has done to the LBS


When she comes all the way out of the fog.....and if her heart is right, then she will understand better, but I don't know if the WAW ever really "knows" unless she is betrayed. If it had not been for the LBS here on this board, I doubt that I would know as much as I do. My H is not the type of person to share his feelings (which was a large part of my problem in our MR). He has never really talked to me about his pain that I caused, but through other LBH's here I have been enlightened.

My remorse came in stages and when I did begin to see what I had done to my H and family.....it was more than I could stand. I think my mind would go into some kind of protection mode. Not what you wanted to hear, I'm sure.

I don't believe anyone can have assurances that it won't ever happen again, b/c like I said before....I would have staked my life on the fact I would never do it the first time. I am aware, now, of signs to look for and to stay away from anything that would be an "avenue" to temptation. My mistake was believing that I would never do something like that to begin with. The avenue that sucked me in was when I started playing games over the Internet. It became an addiction, plus I was horribly depressed, had health problems, was terribly lonely, had family problems and mostly M problems.....and then one thing led to another.......

I can only imagine how hard it would be to "trust" again. When I asked my H if he could ever trust me again, he said..."I have too!" In other words, that is the only way he could live. I think he came very close to having a heart attack over my EA and he could not live suspecting and wondering if I was being true to him.

So, trust would have to be a personal choice, just like forgiveness is a choice.

I have been concerned about some LBS that I have read posts from over a couple of years. I see a completely different tone than when they first came on board. They were left with so much hatred and bitterness and you can see it whenever they write. They hate all WAS.....and don't bother to read anything about the stitch and don't know the individual WAS....but they hate them. They group all the WAS into one category of sinners and hell is too good for them. I do not believe an A is justified.....ever. I don't like seeing anyone so full of vile that they spend their lives on this board spewing out that bitterness on any path they cross. They have allowed the WAS to continue to ruin their lives--instead of moving forward. If it has been a couple of years after the D and you are still here spreading your hate....it is time to move on. BTW, I don't have any of you here on this tread in mind when I say this. But, there are one or two still on the board that posts.

Don't allow the WAS to continue to ruin your life. If you can't trust them, always afraid they might do it again....and if you don't think you can ever forgive, then what kind of life would you have trying to live with them?

I don't know that I've been any help, but I hope so.



Last edited by sandi2; 03/24/10 08:33 PM.

It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: Will I ever be forgiven??? [Re: sandi2] #1969842
03/29/10 07:43 PM
03/29/10 07:43 PM
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Mom of 2 Cherubs Offline OP
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All,

You have said so much here. It's a lot to think about. i see what all of you are saying - at least to some extent. I understand how i should never expect forgiveness, that it is something that i need for me and myabe i am still being selfish in that respoect. I am still with OM so how can i expect him to forgive me. i get that.

I just have to keep going and working on me, definitely need IC to deal with all the emotions raging inside me(so much more than just relationship stuff going on in my life). Thank you all for your support, honesty and sharing. it is truly appreciated.

I wish you all happiness in your lives.


Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take,rather by the moments that take our breath away.
M38,H40
M14
K D11 S8
D - June 09
Re: Will I ever be forgiven??? [Re: Mom of 2 Cherubs] #1972019
04/01/10 12:46 AM
04/01/10 12:46 AM
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musclegal Offline
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Mom of 2 Cherubs, I wish you well--I'm sure that you want the best for you, your XH and your children. Sandi2, your posts have been really helpful. I think that when you have loved someone deeply, and they treat you badly, as though you are nobody, sometimes the anger helps you get through the grief. The sadness has to be "broken" by some other emotion, and maybe anger has a place. But none of us is perfect. I'm really glad that you and your H are back together. I can't imagine that would happen with my H and me, but one never knows the future. I do know that I was in contact with an old boyfriend (married) and felt like I could have had an A with him, but I cut off contact. I think after you have been the LBS, you feel like you could never participate in the demise of another's marriage...but Sandi, you are right. Sometimes we do things we don't expect or recognize.

Re: Will I ever be forgiven??? [Re: AtTheEnd?] #1974249
04/04/10 06:53 AM
04/04/10 06:53 AM
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Screw the OM! He is screwing you through your wife. Some of these OM can be downright dangerous too, figuring out who and what you are and all and if they can have leverage on you.

Of course the wife opened the door.

Its a favorable cause to help "knock the OM off the wife/gf". You can't do this directly, and most of us aren't in the proper positions to do it with a direct confrontation as the wife will defend the OM and can draw closer to him. Also she handed him some of your power and over time maybe all of it, so it will be tough to face someone who has been so empowered at your expense.

Find out if the OM has a wife or long term girlfriend that does not know he's with your wife.

Collect enough conclusive information proving that he's sleeping around with your wife.

Find a way to communicate with the wife/gf, preferably in person. At a lunch a place they will deem safe. Tell them the story, to provide them the information so that there is not another fool out there.

The other way is if this person is part of your wifes workplace, is to find out if their ethics policies prevent such a relationship. If you have proof of stuff going on at work, thats even better. You provide your case to HR and to the Manager of your wifes affair partner. You do it in a calm and collected matter, just provide the information to show that he's breaking ethics.

If this person is part of law enforcement or any special agencies. Some departments don't tolerate this type of behavior as it does not fit their "image". It depends on the department and the location. If you can't do it from the department where he works, you can contact a neigboring department or internal affairs or another special agency.

Sometimes the FBI is friendly enough to help in affair cases where another agency is involved, because usually something else dirty is going on.

You can also provide the information to the guys parents or his church if he does this. Remember, you want to provide the information and not plead a case.

Stop being a victim, knock that OM off your wife.

Also if the guy comes into your house, in many states you are allowed to put a bullet in a trespasser if they come into your property.

The other thing you need to do anyway is to take care of yourself.

Mind, body and soul.

Study, get better at your job or prepare for other jobs
Work out, take a martial art add some new hobbies
Church, study, spiritialism, routines, self-love, sharing, etc.

Re: Will I ever be forgiven??? [Re: Mom of 2 Cherubs] #1991695
04/28/10 01:22 AM
04/28/10 01:22 AM
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Kimmie Lee Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mom of 2 Cherubs
All,

You have said so much here. It's a lot to think about. i see what all of you are saying - at least to some extent. I understand how i should never expect forgiveness, that it is something that i need for me and myabe i am still being selfish in that respoect. I am still with OM so how can i expect him to forgive me. i get that.

I just have to keep going and working on me, definitely need IC to deal with all the emotions raging inside me(so much more than just relationship stuff going on in my life). Thank you all for your support, honesty and sharing. it is truly appreciated.

I wish you all happiness in your lives.


Your perspective has been interesting.

And I am so happy for your XH.

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