Doing hard time on the MLC chain gang.

[MHL]

I have been in Separated for some time now and have made some great friends there and have great support but realize my wife is in MLC and have been coming up here to the resource thread quite often and find the some of the topics more relevant. I had a pretty big R talk with my W tonight, and I thought this would be perfect to start a new thread. Below is a down and dirty of my sitch to date. Obviously you can get more detail from my threads, they are not that long if you have the time. The R talk is the next post down.
My sitch
July 1 bomb, find out about EA/ 1 time PA affair with #1 OM
July-Aug. 24 I am on rollercoaster doing all the wrong things
Aug. 25 I lose it and kick her out of the house, pack her bags throw them out front door ( big scene)
Sept. 1 Wife begins IC with Christian Counselor
Sept 10 I start with different IC at same Counseling Center
Oct 2 Wife begins to put distance again between us, D13 is mad w/ her b/c she is not moving back into the house like she said and not coming over often as she said.
Oct. 30 discover 2nd A with different OM confront her.
Oct 31 Wife comes to house and D13 knows everything, D13 lays into my W for lies and what she is doing, Wife tells D13 there were other men also, ONS, tells D13 she will stop seeing OM#2.
Nov. 14th Confirm W has not stopped seeing OM#2, D13 says she will never talk to her mom again, D13 says Mom is dead to her.
Nov. 16 I contact OM’s wife, (separated since July M 21yrs)
Nov 19th OM’s wife catches him and my W in bed together, gets pictures, lets them have it!!! Yeah.
Nov. 20th My W breaks it off with OM and goes to work and leaves suicide notes. W goes to hospital for a week under suicide watch. Finds out she is addicted to Sex/attention from other men.
Nov. 30 My wife hires Lawyer
Dec 19 Wife and I spend 8 hours together Xmas shopping (feels like old times)
Dec 22 Get served complaint by W’s lawyer for Sole Custody of S9,D13, financial support, legal fees, Equitable Dist. Of Assets.
Dec. 25 Wife comes over for Xmas is good time for family, D13 talking to W again
Dec. 28 Wife comes over to house to have drinks with me and best friends
Jan 2 Wife, Me, S9, D13 spend afternoon together, lunch and bowling, Family Healing.
Jan 2 midnite. FB/ bar incident, D13 is completely done with Mom.
Jan 3 lots of R talk between W and I, she admits some wrong doing but still wants to go out w friends.
Jan 5 I ask for joint MC session, I say need to set boundries.
Jan 8 wife sets up session
Jan 13 Joint MC session and give back ring tell her I’m done.

I don’t think I did a good job of being done, I did get her attention and she mentioned it again tonight. I have come to the realization that this is going to take a long, long time probably years and it has taken me the last couple of weeks not only for that to sink in but decided that I can lovingly and patiently wait while my W works this out, I do love her enough to give her that time and be strong for my kids while my W is going through this.

[MHL]

Okay Everyone,
This is going to be a long one, I am warning you now.

Had a huge relationship talk with my wife tonight, while I don’t think this was a turning point it is the most I have spoken with my wife in a long time and we successfully talked about the past without getting upset. I did not talk about the affairs, only reference “things that have happened in the last 8 months. My wife shared her “feelings” with me which she hasn’t done for a very long time even before the nightmare.

This started because my S9 stayed home from school today and I needed to go to work, he actually wasn’t feeling good last night and he missed his mom so I called her and unbelievably she agreed to come and get him and he spent the night with her last night. They spent the whole day together which was great for him and for her. I am not sure but I think she is starting to reconnect with him and wants to reconnect with D13. When it was time for him to come home, he was very upset and my W said to give him Benadryl to make him sleep and that she was going to seek counseling for him too. D13 is seeing someone now. I was mad at first, did not show it, I was thinking that all my W wants to do is have someone else fix her problems that she created.

When we got home S9 broke down with me and said he was scared that mom was never coming home. I asked what she told him and he said that she said,

“The reason I am not coming home is not because I do not want to come home to you and D13”.

A very confusing statement to a 9 year old. I talked to him more but he was still very upset, I called W to find out exactly what she said to him.

M: Hey, S9 is pretty upset, what did you say to him tonight? (very calm voice, caring almost)
W: I told him that the reason I am not coming home is not because I do not want to come home to him and D13. (same thing S9 said)
M: He doesn’t really understand that, he wants to know if you are coming back or not.
W: I want to come back to him and D13, but you make me look like the bad guy when you pray for me to come home every night.
M: S9 prays for you to come home, not me.
W: Still you make me look like the bad guy.
M: I understand how you would feel that way, what else makes you feel like that?
W: S9 keeps saying that you have changed when I tell him that you and I don’t get along when we are together. You keep telling him to tell me that you have changed, that you don’t get mad anymore.
M: I have changed, I hope that you have noticed the changes in me. The kids have but I have not changed for you or even them, I have changed for me.
W: Do you see why I have a hard time believing you?
M: Yes…………I don’t think I really ever grew up until a couple of months ago. I mean I have been a child and acting like a child for over 20 years. I think that I was still a child when and threw a fit on June 30, July 1 2009 (EA/PA Bomb) and then started my journey to where I am today. November 2009 was like my final adolescent years and after that I have grown so much personally that you would not know me. It is true, I have changed, I am happy with me finally and I don’t get mad anymore.
W: Why did you say what you did in the counseling session 2 weeks ago? (Stated that I was done and handed back my ring see my short thread on the counseling session, go to page 2 to see what I said http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...940#Post1913940 )
M: Have you ever thought something one day and was absolutely convinced that was the way you would feel forever and then the next day you can’t even remember why you even thought that? (To the wise Jedi DBer out there, you know who you are, sorry I plagiarized but it worked, thanks) That is how I felt that day but I still believe in us and I still would like us to work, but if we don’t then I will still be happy and I will be okay, and I hope you will be happy too.
W: If I were to come back it would be for the wrong reasons.
M: Do you ever remember me saying, the reasons people first get together are not the same reasons they stay together.
W: Yes. But I would be doing it for the kids.
M: I understand your fear of not being happy or having to sacrifice being happy just to be with the kids.
W: I want to be a Mother again.
M: You will always be their mother, but I understand you want to do the things that make you feel like a mother.
W: Yes, but D13 hates me, it will never happen.
M: I have been trying to teach her the gift of forgiveness, it is a gift you give to yourself. She is much more mature than you know and I am not just saying that because of the things she knows. She understands relationships much more than you and I think maybe even better, she doesn’t understand time though. D13 thinks in terms of weeks and I used to also but know I think in terms of years. It will take time but you and her will have a R and it will be better than before.
W: But I can’t afford a place of my own and even if I could I would have to work all the time and I would not be able to see them.
M: I know……….Have you ever thought about working on us again? I still value the idea of having a family and the kids having both their parents together. That is the dream isn’t it?
W: Yes…..but we are not the same people we were when we met back in Raleigh, it wouldn’t be like that. (MLCer wanting it to be fun again)
M: I know that,……… It can be better……… but I know that is hard to see especially when you do not have those types of feelings for the man you would be with. Can I read you something that I read in a book?
W: Yes
M: Love is a choice. You can love your spouse in spite of what he/she has done or failed to do. You can love your spouse in spite of your feelings. You may feel hurt, rejected, lonely, angry, frustrated, hostile, and any number of negative emotions and yet chose to love your spouse. “Gary Chapman: Hope for the Separated”. (wife’s name), the “in Love” feelings come later, and they are even better than before.
W: I haven’t read all the books you have read, I feel like I still have to work on me. I lost me somewhere along the way. I am a mother but I want to remember what it is like to be me. My father used to treat me so bad and control me and when I went off to college I was so happy, that is why I love my sorority sisters so much because I was finally me. Then I met you and you are just like my father.
M: Yes, I know. I tried to control you didn’t I.
W: Yes
M: We both have unresolved issues from our childhood and we brought them to our marriage. I didn’t have my needs met as a child and when my needs or wants weren’t getting met as a man/husband I didn’t tell you, I was afraid. (told her about No More Mr. Nice Guy) I know it is okay to have wants and needs and it is okay to say “my needs aren’t getting met”
W: My needs weren’t getting met either, but I just blew up at you (now she is crying).
M: It is okay, that is why we are where we are at.
W: I still need to work on me and I am getting tired, I did not get much sleep last night b/c of S9.
M: Okay, can we talk again sometime?
W: Can I think about it?
M: Yes……..I want you to know that you are worth waiting for while you work on you. (Sorry wise Jedi Dber, I stole your words again, you need to be on retainer with Michele)
W: Thanks
M: Goodnight
W:Goodnight

There was more said but that was the high points, I know she stuck her head out of the tunnel for bit and my expectations are absolutely zero. We had a little conversation about the ongoing separation agreement and out lawyers, also talked about my job opportunity tomorrow. We talked a little more in depth about our childhoods and how we treated each other over the last 16 years.

I validated and validate and validated some more, I validated so much I felt like a parking lot attendant. I did not mention anything about the multiple affairs or how she is messing up the kids, nothing negative about her what so ever. The funny thing is that it was not that hard once we got going and my frame of mind was set.

I will say this, the conversation took place over 2 phone calls. We spoke for about 5 minutes and S9 came in and wanted me to tuck him in, this was perfect b/c it gave me a chance to say a prayer with S9 and again before I called her back. I also grabbed a couple of the books I have read and flipped through and reread some of the sections I highlighted. When I called her back we spoke for about 45 minutes and I stopped short of mentioning Retrouville. I think it is premature but will see what happens if we continue to have these conversations.

I know I shouldn’t be jumping forums but I have come to realize that my Wife is in a MLC. I need to seek advice here as I clearly recognize some of the stages of MLC she has experienced, just not so sure where she is now but I think my treatment is the same no matter what, it just helps me with the patience thing if I know or can make an educated guess.

To the wise Jedi Dber out there on Hoth, I appreciate you keeping it “real” for me.

[Cadet]

just not so sure where she is now but I think my treatment is the same no matter what, it just helps me with the patience thing if I know or can make an educated guess.

If she is in replay, withdrawl, or depression understand that the stages don't go in order, can repeat themselves and in general make no sense as far as a time line.
It does sound like she is in MLC with depression and childhood issues with her father.

Welcome to this board the place nobody wants to be. But there are wonderful people here and we can try to help you on your journey as we take our own trips down the MLC tunnel.

I assume you have read the resources, try to read the whole thread not just the main parts. There are many interesting comments by other people on these threads.

Read, Knowledge is Power.

[fisherman]

Jan 13 Joint MC session and give back ring tell her I’m done.

I don’t think I did a good job of being done, I did get her attention and she mentioned it again tonight.

I did something similar as well. It's controlling unless you truly mean it.

When you're done you're done, nothing more.

W: I want to come back to him and D13, but you make me look like the bad guy when you pray for me to come home every night.
M: S9 prays for you to come home, not me.
W: Still you make me look like the bad guy.

Praying is good.....Pray for the right things and the right reasons. If she is aware of all this praying for her return, it some how is being brought to her attention which shouldn't be happening.

Guilt will drive her further away.


Your w seems to be aware of her issues, most mlc'ers suffer from a huge amount of denial, however her actions must match her words. If that is not happening, I would suggest taking a few steps back.

Your children seem to be way caught up in all this. They need age appropriate answers and nothing more.

[MHL]

OP,
It was actually one of your posts that I got to Hearts Blessing posting on the stages of MLC. I have been lurking all over the boards and in the archives of MLC. Not sure where she is at but I will say this, I was talking to my W last night not the alien.

I am not sure but I think she is attempting some reconection with the kids which would be in the last stage if memory serves me correctly, I know she is not in that stage but as you said she is probably moving around. Whatever the case, I will take it, write it down and continue to watch from a loving distance.

[MHL]

Trapt,
You are right, it has been traumatic for them to say the least. It has been difficult to keep them removed when Mom has lied so much to both of them. I am not blaming her or even mad at her it is what is. She is just out of the picture and it is very difficult for S9 to deal with, he is also experiencing withdrawl much like I did over Christmas when I saw her often. I got addicted to her presence and had done some damage to the detatchment I had done for myself, I ended up having a couple of bad days as a result.

My S9 spent the night and all day with her yesterday and by the evening when it was time to come home it hit him hard. I am glad the mother/child bond is mending though.

[C-Bart]

Sounds like you are seeing some changes in your W. That's good but, be ready for her to run back into the tunnel. I'd be surprise if she isn't already there today. The hope is that each time they come out they come out a bit longer and don't go back as far.

Good to see you over here. I've found this to be one of the best places for me. Gives me some comfort to know what to expect. Just reading through some of the situations gives me a sense of calm.

I haven't posted much lately. Kind of hanging low and there really is nothing to report. Retro is still a go. As for the D it looks like it will be dismissed unless Mrs. Bart is up to some thing in the background. Told her a long time ago she owned the D and if she wanted to make it happen it was up to her.

[C-Bart]

One more thing, and this is a question for everyone.

Does the MLC have to have a catastrophic event happen to them in order to reverse course? My W didn't really think she had a problem and was therefore not attending IC until she had a "mental breakdown". Now she has a little different view of things.

Is this common to the MLC?

[Cadet]

Does the MLC have to have a catastrophic event happen to them in order to reverse course?

Is this during the middle of the crisis or to start it.

I would think during the middle of the crisis anything could be possible but each situation would be different. Some people might never reverse themselves. Certainly my mother has never hit bottom she is 77. She just went off her meds again for the 30th time, in 50 years. So hitting bottom may or may not reverse the course of MLC.

As far as at the start of the crisis, I think there is normally some event that triggers the start, death or something equally frightening.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Something triggers it.

Something (can)start(s)the ending of it.

That's about it.

Neither has to be catastrophic.

Both events are usually totally unexpected.