Don't know where to post this.

[loveherstill]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I was not there for my wife emotionally and after building her self esteem 13 years ago I tore it down over the last three years. She is a beautiful woman but I felt bad about myself so I commented on her weight. Finally one day I said "looks like you are getting fat". This was the straw that broke the camels back and about two weeks later she asked for divorce. Three weeks later she had a ONS and two weeks after that another ONS. On November 7th she met the current other man and is still involved with him.

I understand my faults and am working on them, I have DB book and DR book, Love languages book, Lee Baucom and a few others.

She has acknowledged positive changes for the sake of our 3 children (S12, S4, S2).

I caught her on November 11th, 2009 and moved out November 19th. If I did not move she was set to take the children to a unfamiliar and unsafe environment.

For the first week we did not get along. After that we started dating some and being sexually intimate again.

On December 1st she dumped the other man and on December 2nd she thought that I had a date (went to see my brother) and she begged the OM to take her back. She did not see him again until Dec 18th although she had other opportunities she called me instead and we were spending every to every other night together.

Over christmas she spent 4 days with me and left her phone off the whole time. We ML a few times and went to my mom's. She left the phone at the house. He came to the house to visit her on Monday because she chose to spend NYE with me instead of him. I messed up and blamed her for inviting him to house (she did not and told him to leave, they were fighting about me). I also confronted him and let him know that it would be a mistake to come back to the house again (mutually agreed ground rule no op in marriage house while still married). Wonder of wonders she showed respect with that ground rule.

Confrontation was a set back. She went to see him and got her fix on Dec 30th and then went with me Dec 31st.

Went to see him the night of Jan 1st and told him she is not worth the trouble. Came back and told son 12 that she wanted to break it off with om but had to do it slow.

She is worried that I will never take her back and that I am moving on with a female friend that I had years ago. This woman is a friend and has been for 15 years but the wife has been jealous. I have been faithful to my wife but she thinks I had an EA.

Wife signed up for facebook. I found out and signed up too. Asked her to friend me, she did and saw the woman that threatened her had added me too and flipped out. She ran to om's arms and took S2 and S4 with her (S12 was with me). She spent about 36 hours with om.

Last night she did not want to work on M and she sent a email to the woman who she feels threatened by.

Today she is bringing me all the kids, shaving cream, talking nice, wanting to hang out for a while and wanting to cuddle for a while. Then at about 8:00 pm off to see om.

When she sees him she acts guilty and depressed for a few days after. She says that she does not care for him and no ILY have been exchanged. Says that I am better looking, better provider, better endowed and better in bed. But I tore down her self esteem and she wants someone to tell her she is beautiful and I won't do. Our marriage counsellor tells me that the sex is not what she is looking for out of him but instead is a consequence of the flirting that she wants. In short she puts out so he will keep telling her what she wants to hear.

I have had the bakery open and part of the time it worked. I just want some advice.

[TrentC]

OK, the first thing is, you need to learn how to talk to each other.

Not intimately, not sharing deepest darkest secrets, but just basic communication.

On December 1st she dumped the other man and on December 2nd she thought that I had a date (went to see my brother) and she begged the OM to take her back.

Why did she think you were on a date? Did you not tell her where you were going?

He came to the house to visit her on Monday because she chose to spend NYE with me instead of him. I messed up and blamed her for inviting him to house (she did not and told him to leave, they were fighting about me). I also confronted him and let him know that it would be a mistake to come back to the house again (mutually agreed ground rule no op in marriage house while still married). Wonder of wonders she showed respect with that ground rule.

Confrontation was a set back. She went to see him and got her fix on Dec 30th and then went with me Dec 31st.

I'm not sure how that could have gone differently, other than she sounds like she is definitely cake-eating. She sleeps with you, then goes and sleeps with him, then goes to sleep with you again! And when he showed up at the house, she got upset and went to him, then came back to you again!

Went to see him the night of Jan 1st and told him she is not worth the trouble. Came back and told son 12 that she wanted to break it off with om but had to do it slow.

That doesn't work. If she is going to break it off, it has to be all at once; otherwise, she'll keep getting whatever emotional fix she needs from him.

She is worried that I will never take her back and that I am moving on with a female friend that I had years ago.

Why does she think that? Has she talked to you about her worries? If so, what have you told her about your friend?

This woman is a friend and has been for 15 years but the wife has been jealous. I have been faithful to my wife but she thinks I had an EA.

So if the wife has been jealous of that relationship, why are you talking to her again? Or is the jealousy thing recent?

Wife signed up for facebook. I found out and signed up too. Asked her to friend me, she did and saw the woman that threatened her had added me too and flipped out.

What woman threatened her? The 15-year-long friend?

She ran to om's arms and took S2 and S4 with her (S12 was with me). She spent about 36 hours with om.

OK, I'm normally on the empathetic side of WAS's, but why are you letting her blatantly hop in and out of your respective beds? When something makes her angry or upset, she makes no bones about running to the OM. She even took two of your kids!

And you let her back into your bed? You may not be aware of this, but some jurisdictions hold that having sex with your wife while she is having an affair amounts to tacit approval of the affair.

That needs to stop, ASAP. Try this on for size:

"I understand that you are angry at me, and we have serious issues that we need to work on if we are going to save this marriage.

HOWEVER, it is unacceptable that you run off to OM whenever you feel like it, and it is completely unacceptable that you bring our kids to his house. You are disrespecting me and you are confusing our children.

If you want to work things out, then you must cut off all contact with OM. If you choose not to, or I find out that you have not, then you can leave the kids here and go stay with him, and I will pursue filing for divorce."

Says that I am better looking, better provider, better endowed and better in bed. But I tore down her self esteem and she wants someone to tell her she is beautiful and I won't do. Our marriage counsellor tells me that the sex is not what she is looking for out of him but instead is a consequence of the flirting that she wants. In short she puts out so he will keep telling her what she wants to hear.

So have you tried to make an effort to rebuild that connection to her? Have you apologized for tearing down her self-esteem?

Why on earth would you do that, anyway? Because "you felt bad"? Can you see why that would damage her trust in you, and cause her to lose respect (and for women, respect = love) for you?

[robx]

Hello?......
STD's anyone?
Sex with OM one day and sex with you another day?!
And you allow this?
WTF?!

Do you enjoy dipping your stick in another man's vanilla?
Sorry for the graphic description but what you're doing just sounds gross, it's like your both sharing her just for sex, I'm sure you can practically smell each other on your wife by now.

No more sex.

Take a break, it's ok, you will survive.

Rethink what you're doing and regroup,
what's going on right now isn't working so we you can stop anytime now and start focusing on doing something that does work.

[loveherstill]

Ok, I understand. In the beginning I tried to play a head game with jealously about the female friend and it back fired. The MC who sent me to this site and got me into the books said that demanding an immediate stop to the affair would just push them together because of her depth in the fog. I was the controlling one in the relationship and the MC thinks this is a game from her to prove control. W has said that this is no game but it is her control. I have been bleeding the money supply down to enough for bills only so that she has to feel some consequences.

Tonite she is going to see om and like an idiot I just sat and watched a movie with her while cuddling and we kissed passionately a few times.

Me tearing her self esteem was a mistake and I had a few financial issues that made me feel less manly so I attacked her instead.

I want much more than sex with her I want true intimacy.

I have scheduled some IC for her and she says she wants to go.

Please tell me more or ask more because I want to save this relationship of 14 years.

[robx]

Ok, I understand. In the beginning I tried to play a head game with jealously about the female friend and it back fired. The MC who sent me to this site and got me into the books said that demanding an immediate stop to the affair would just push them together because of her depth in the fog. I was the controlling one in the relationship and the MC thinks this is a game from her to prove control. W has said that this is no game but it is her control. I have been bleeding the money supply down to enough for bills only so that she has to feel some consequences.

Tonite she is going to see om and like an idiot I just sat and watched a movie with her while cuddling and we kissed passionately a few times.

Me tearing her self esteem was a mistake and I had a few financial issues that made me feel less manly so I attacked her instead.

I want much more than sex with her I want true intimacy.

I have scheduled some IC for her and she says she wants to go.

Please tell me more or ask more because I want to save this relationship of 14 years.

Tell your wife that she should be with the OM, you won't stand in the way of her happiness.

You will also stop having sex with her, stop kissing her, hugging her, cuddling and all that other nonsense, these things are for people in a devoted, committed relationship, not for people in a crazy no holds barred open relationship.

She is cake eating.
Cake eating literally means what it implies.

She's having the best of both worlds.
A husband at home who is scared to lose her, and another man who isn't worried about losing her but is ready to give her the kind of sex she's been looking for in a long time.

You are the 2nd option.
If you listen to us, you will no longer be the 2nd option,
removing yourself from the list of options actually makes you more desirable because you will become something she can't have anymore.

If she is with the OM, I think you should start dating other women, I'm asking you to fall in love, kiss, have sexy time explosions, I'm just saying go out and meet other women.

No arguing with your wife anymore.

In fact cut the communications with your wife down substantially, let her pursue talking to you but don't initiate talking with her.

And this $hit about bringing the kids to the OM's home,
you better put your f!@#$* foot down and tell her that this will happen NO MORE! Man you pissed me off something fierce when I read that, how could you allow that?! They are your kids for crying out loud!

[loveherstill]

robx and trentc I know you can help as I have been following your threads for over a month and reading advice from others.

Remember though the MC says this is a little different because I was in control during the relationship and that is what she is rebelling against.

My 180 was to move and lay finance and house decisions on her but only give her enough money to make bills.

I also have always demanded to know her whereabouts even before affair started, so I am trying to detach and be loving and available when she wants.

She has never been alone. Even when a kid, since 14 she has never went longer than a week without a boyfriend.

She was sodimized at 14 by two of her dad's drug buddies, beat as a child (broken nose, etc.), and raped by a classmate at 16.

She has a few issues that may require different handling, but I do not know. I am new here and just struggling and scared.

I did act very happy to see her when she was here. Tomorrow when she picks up the kids she will be feeling guilty and I will not be bubbly and happy, I want her to feel her guilt.

She did say that she felt that all I was ever interested was sex and it can be a turn off. She is a lower drive (once a week or once every 10 days good for her) while I prefer once a day but can easily survive with once every 3 days or so.

That has caused a disconnect. She does not go see om even half as often as her time allows and neglects him at times to only hear his words. She is clearly seeking validation of her beauty.

I need to be less available for sex until she comes back my way?
That I can do.

As far as the break it off slow thing, I agree but she has a hard time with this and has always either had to make a guy break up with her or let him down slowly. Dumbest thing I ever heard but I have known her since she was 14.

[robx]

nope it's not different, I'm not too concerned what your mc says,
ask her how successful she is, how many marriages she's saved, I'm sure she'll waffle on that answer.

Although her childhood issues are traumatic, you didn't cause them. You may have been an ass and hurt her self-esteem but I think the affair wasn't caused by your recent comments, I think it's been in the works for quite some time, you only caught wind of it recently.

She is seeking validation, external validation, she needs help from a counsellor to help her learn how to boost her self-esteem and internally validate herself.

My advice still stands, it's still applicable.

As for the sex and her saying she has a lower sex drive,
look at the recent events, she's having sex with 2 men and probably regularly, if anything I would say her sex drive is stronger than yours, she just can't explain it and neither can you.

Let her have the OM and remove yourself from the list of options, she's having an affair right now plain & simple and you are trying to enable her with all of these excuses.

[loveherstill]

I did not know she took kids to see him until after. However I hoped that kids might scare him off. OM is 40 never had kids, never had wife, makes very little money, lives in a single wide trailer, smokes (neither w or I do), balding, opposite of her prefered body type and drinks heavily. I have considered restraining order for the kids as he has had one before when at 33 he hit his sister and she filed one. Afraid restraining order may push them together.

She only took the kids after I played a head game for jealousy and should have my teeth kicked for.

I will tell her exposing kids to him is unacceptable. To tell the truth she does not want to take kids there anyway as they depress him and cramp their time.

[TrentC]

Ok, I understand. In the beginning I tried to play a head game with jealously about the female friend and it back fired.

And that's why those kinds of head games are never a good idea. Why did you feel the need to make her jealous?

The MC who sent me to this site and got me into the books said that demanding an immediate stop to the affair would just push them together because of her depth in the fog.

Well, if that's how you want to handle it, then you should not have sex with her again until she's given up the OM. And look at getting tested for STDs.

I have been bleeding the money supply down to enough for bills only so that she has to feel some consequences.

What does this mean? Are you just burning through money and leaving enough in your joint accounts for bills? Or are you withdrawing it and hiding it from her?

Tonite she is going to see om and like an idiot I just sat and watched a movie with her while cuddling and we kissed passionately a few times.

Yeah, this is not a good idea. You are giving her every indication that you are okay with her sleeping with some other guy. Hell, you're giving me the impression that you're okay with it.

Me tearing her self esteem was a mistake and I had a few financial issues that made me feel less manly so I attacked her instead.

It was more than a mistake. It was hurtful, and cruel, and directly contributed to the crisis you are in.

I want much more than sex with her I want true intimacy.

You've found a crappy way of going about finding it.

Stop trying to f#ck with her head. If you can get this turned about, try being honest with her about your feelings and your fears. Intimacy requires honesty and trust, and by playing with jealousy and attacking her self-esteem, you've displayed neither.

I have scheduled some IC for her and she says she wants to go.

Let her schedule it for herself, then. You still have a power struggle going on. And I'd consider IC for yourself if you aren't already going.

Please tell me more or ask more because I want to save this relationship of 14 years.

Start by going back to the basics.

What do you want from your marriage? What do you want from your wife that you're not currently getting? (And I'm not talking about since the A started, I mean in general.)

What does your wife want from a marriage? What, besides the obvious, does she want from you that you aren't giving her? (Again, I'm not talking about since the A started, I mean from the past few years.)

Come up with a plan to work on those.

[loveherstill]

She started with this man on November 7th. Same day they met. She has been to see him no more than 11 times counting tonight. I have friends that live where they can see his house. She has had the opportunity to see him another 23 times but chose me instead. This cake eater only goes to see him when we fight.

You all are right about distancing. When I have cut off and stopped pursuing her she has ignored him and chased me. She has told me that she wants to be pursued.

About me dating. I have talked to a couple of new women met through work connections for many hours at a time and felt a huge change in my PMA. I have never went out with these women more than once as I do not want another R to complicate things.

What do you think? I am a little slow and may require a few hundred 2X4's to get in shape.