Hi all-LRT advice?

[Journey]

Hello Arwen-

I posted to you on another thread on Aug 7 posts on your old thread .

I am a gay woman also, and still can't imagine doing anything but standing for my marriage with my beloved partner, although she has been very gone now for several years. It makes it somewhat harder that most of the rest of the (at least my) world finds such loyalty borderline nutso. But only somewhat harder- mostly I just miss her and our incredible closeness. I guess if it had been a mostly rocky, or dull, marriage, standing for so long might be questionable- but my heart and soul have no doubts- there's really no choice. That said, I do work hard, despite the almost relentless pain of missing her, to move on with my life and do the best I can with each day to at least maintain, and when possible, to make the world a better place. The joy is not as constant as it was when we were together, but it does still come on occasion- and I realize I had a tremendous amount of growing up to do that, if I’m brutally honest with myself, probably would not have happened in this time period- if at all- if she hadn't left.

It's ironic that almost the only people that "get" standing are Christians- and yet, unfortunately for us, most of them believe the love between my partner and myself is a "sin". Still, although I believe myself quite spiritual- or at least, very philosophical about ethics- yet not at all formally "religious", one of the most wonderful persons I have ever met (via here) is FaithfulH- a devoted Christian, who saved his marriage. I have met with him and/or his wife several times- they are both amazing people and have a lot to teach about love, hope, faith, and forgiveness. (And are also just plain fun to hang out with!)

Anyway, as I mentioned in my first posts, this is a great place (and possibly the only place) to get support for standing for your marriage. I'm glad to see another gay person here- if we don't take our marriages seriously, who will? There used to be a few other gay women (and one gay man) a few years ago, but I haven't noticed anyone else but you recently. So, again, welcome, but so sorry for your loss- this all sucks so bad, but don't let anyone tell your heart there is no hope. Only your heart knows the truth about your connection with your partner.

You have a DB "star" in your camp with BND! Have you read her incredible story? If she can save her marriage, with a particularly "crazed" (at the time) WAH, all while taking care of no less than EIGHT (yeah! count 'em- EIGHT!) children, then anyone can. She was so brave and stood fast with hope when even most of the people here on the board were very discouraging. Again, I think one prerequisite to hope for saving a marriage seems to be that the WASs that return seem to have been, in general, sweet and loving partners during the marriage. Although I have also seen a few previously lousy marriages reconcile into happy ones. I suspect logic and statistics are pretty meaningless in matters of the heart.

I had to chuckle at your story about the furniture "gap". My partner not only didn't take one piece of her furniture, she left at least half of all the rest of her belongings as well- including her family (before me) photo albums, many clothes, her expensive bike, all her non-work books, music, files- indeed, my partner flew the premises as if the place had been on fire, and she only had time to grab a few bare essentials- say, what she needed to survive while camping out for the next few weeks. Never left a number or address, after many years of asking me "Let's always stay close, OK?" Despite my being an indisputably immature ass/jerk at times, I know my P felt VERY loved and adored and very happy almost always with me, and told me so many times. I did have a LOT of growing up left to do, and still do. That said, my P had a very abusive childhood, and what would have probably been a minor conflict to most couples, I think, really did feel like a fire to my P when she bolted. (I used to post here as "Lights" but my posts all got wiped, I think, due to me stupidly putting my real name in an email address in one post, which I needed to fix, as Googling me pulled up those posts.)

I think your situation might be quite different, and in fact, may be a lot more hopeful than mine. Again, if you can tell us more about what your R was like before she left- her complaints, etc.- it may help us help you do your best to fight for your marriage. I will later post some books that helped me the most-and on your old thread I posted a link to a great article from the NY Times about sticking it out for your marriage during MLC- and reading posts by BND and Faithful H can certainly inspire you. Others that come to mind are yellowrose and Alisuddenly (in Piecing)- there are many more success stories, some even after years of separation- so have hope! I have been here a long time and most people bail after only a few months and rarely stick around for more than a year or two- it's hard to know how many more Ms would be restored if LBSs did stand for the 2-7 or more years MLC is thought to last. Not that they should, necessarily. Again, I think the only thing one "should" do is follow one's heart.

Regarding your latest specific question about how to handle communications with your W, check out Alisuddenly's advice especially- I believe gentle and kind and loving is always the best default. There are times to put up firm "boundaries", I suppose, but I'm not sensing this is would help your M most at this time- again, it depends on her complaints before you left- were you too clingy for her? If so, then letting her initiate all contact would probably be best. Were you too distant for her? If so, "going dark" would probably only push her further away. DBing is not a specific set of "tactics"- it is doing your best to save your marriage- some say it is simply "do what works, don't do what doesn't work", but I think it can be worded even more succinctly as "Be nice. Don't be a jerk." Although, I guess, both those sentences say the same thing: so take your pick.

Take heart! ...and buckle down for what could be a very long... Journey

[Jack_Three_Beans]

most of them believe the love between my partner and myself is a "sin".

Actually I think it is awesome.
And as a guy being gay seems so much easier.

"Hey that thing earlier when you got mad...man, I'm sorry."
"It's cool. Wanna beer?"
"Sure! Are the Giants winning?"



But then I spent so much time in Catholic School detention, I think I wrote my own version of the bible. Let me tell you how exciting it was to realize the nuns didn't actually READ the pages I copied from the bible.

'On the sixth day God created Jack, and it was great, on the Seventh day he had to rest after all that coolness."


In all seriousness Journey.

Your dedication is amazing. And your advice is great as are your ideals.

Stirring the religion pot, might not be a good idea, just a suggestion.

But I figure, judgement of others makes me a hypocrite, and as a Christian, it is not my place to weigh others.

And personally, "Turn the other cheek and love thy neighbor," I believe are the corner stones, its hard enough to do that.

: )

[Grace_O]

don't let anyone tell your heart there is no hope. Only your heart knows the truth about your connection with your partner.

Journey,

This is not only beautifully stated, but IMO a very profound truth.

It becomes difficult to do this at times esp after the years start going by b/c of the common positon that we should move on, let it go etc. If we are able to listen to our hearts and act accordingly, it doesn't matter what anybody else believes.

Arwen,

Hang in there and have a nice (or minimally ok) weekend.

HUGS

[Journey]

Hi J3B- thanks for your kind words. It helps more than you know. I can now see what you mean- and you're right, I probably should not have worded it like that- or even brought it up at all- I didn't mean to "stir the religion pot"- God forbid! I was attempting to explain (badly now, I see) how, just when you think nothing can be lonelier than having your beloved partner of many years abandon you, that many of the very few people who believe in marriage for better or for worse no ifs ands or buts don't believe in marriages for people like me, although I do respect their beliefs- I just meant it was especially disheartening- that we have even less support than other LBSs. I think most religions say the same thing: be a good person. I'm all for it. Anyway, no more stirring that pot, or a political one either! That said, what's up with the Giants? They're breakin' my heart! Then again, after the sweetest most thrilling Superbowl ever, when they Davied the undefeated Patriot "giants", there seems little point in watching football anymore anyway...

Arwen, are you still around? I was thinking- having your WAS move in with the OP is probably a good thing- nothing can sour a R that isn't meant to be faster than sharing a bathroom and living with someone else's long list of quirks and pet peeves. If you guys had a nice domestic rhythm together, there's a good chance the OP thing may self-destruct even quicker now that they are shacking up together. So leave the porch light on, with fresh flowers on the table, (or whatever your P liked about your home together). Who knows?- maybe she'll show up at your door tonight dressed as a sane person.

Happy Halloween All, Journey

[Jack_Three_Beans]

After my Buffalo Bills lost 4 straight Super Bowl bids, I gave up football. Rather than give up my team, I gave up the sport.
My Sundays are much more productive. : )

Arwen, how are you doing?

Good weekend or did the goblins get you?

[brandnewday]

Journey,

(((hugs)))

Thank you, your post meant so much to me, truly.

[Arwen_in_NJ]

Yo Jack-
A Buffalo Bills fan??! I KNEW there was something about you I liked! That's my hometown...

Will post more later about weekend/ interactions w/W. Still at work, but time to go....

Ciao!

[Arwen_in_NJ]

I posted to you on another thread on Aug 7 posts on your old thread .

Journey-
Sorry for not responding to your other post- for some reason, although I "watch" my own posts, I wasn't getting e-mailed when someone posted to them. I find there are so many posts on these boards that if something isn't right on the first page of the forum, I don't go sifting through the other pages to find it- even my own stuff.
:-(

I'll respond more later.