? for people who have gone to Retrouvaille

[Valeska19]

Go.

You never know what will happen to your relationship if you go. If you don't go.. it will probably be more of the same from your H.

You are scared.. Scared to hope, scared that it will fail, maybe even scared it would work.

I understand your fear... but fear is paralyzing. It doesn't come from God.

Let God know you are scared and put this weekend in his hands.

[hope2011]

Go! It can't hurt and if you don't go, you'll always wonder and regret.

[hopefull79]

I do hope we both get something out of this, and I really hope it will help re-ignite something within him to where he'll realize that loving each other is a choice, even though I know his image of love is very reminiscent of fairy tales and movies, which we lost a long time ago since he claimed to have loved me at first sight, and us being together was fate and destiny. He seems to think that if there is no passion, there is no love. I've chosen to love him and to make this attempt to keep our family whole, and hopefully hearing stories from others will help change his mind into wanting the same as well. He says he's already over this and moved on and that we won't have another chance at all. I try to tell him anything is possible, there's always a chance, and always hope, but then he calls me delusional.

I've been begging him to at least go in with an open mind to the slight possibility that it could go either way, but his only response is that we are going to divorce, that's the only way this is going, and we're just attending this weekend so that maybe we can come to an agreement on the custody and visitation schedule of our son. I told him I understand that if there is a chance for us, it's a very small percentage based on his words and actions, and his response is that it's a negative percentage and to not get my hopes up because we'll never be together again, and that we'll never be a family again and that we should just learn from our mistakes so we can apply them to future relationships instead of working on them between us because it's too late. We've never had a solid base to work upon since we got married really quickly after we started seeing each other, pregnant before we got married, even though he was talking about marriage and family with me before that happened, so we never had the time for 'us'. I just feel like during our separation, we finally started uncovering bits and pieces that we should have shared and didn't which led to our failures, and I'm hoping he'll be willing to work with me to mend our mistakes together instead of re-creating or applying them to a different relationship, since a different relationship would just be a different set of problems later on.

I'm also very worried about the OW from his work since I've heard that she just had her divorce, and she also has a child with her ex husband who is around 2. The only reason I knew that was because I had a heart to heart with my husbands grandmother, and at that time I just had suspicions, and she said they were just friends, and that she was going through a divorce and had a small child etc. But then one day my son told me there was a lady on my side of the bed, and gave me her name, and then had a breakdown thinking his mom was being replaced, and over and over asking me, "why did daddy make bad choices?"

I'm just very scared, and anxious about next weekend, and I can't help but cry every day about having been the first one to walk away. I want to work with him to be able to fully forgive him for the past, I just hope he'll do the same for me for our family. When I left, I thought I didn't and couldn't love him again either, until the day I went to the courthouse to file the divorce papers, and I couldn't leave the car to do it because it just didn't feel right. Then 3 months later, I end up receiving the divorce papers he's filed in the mail.

LOL, I'm so sorry for venting, I'm just having a moment.

[hopefull79]

I did speak with H yesterday though, he called me at work, and he sounded very nervous, stressed, and distraught about the idea of spending a weekend together for Retrouvaille. I'm not sure if he's stressed because OW might be telling him not to, or if he's scared that it will ignite something between us again to want to put the effort into saving our family then having us fall back into old ways, or distraught over the possible torment he'll get at work about it. The OW is someone he works with, and he has friends at work, but I was never allowed to hang out with him and his work friends, let alone introduced.
He did at least say he'll go in with a positive attitude, and an open mind to communication only, and couldn't guarantee that he could go in with an open heart since he had no feelings left for me at all.
However, he does get extremely angry when I tell him that I want to try again. I told him that he can't fault me for wanting to put another attempt at our family, at our relationship. Which he agreed and said he couldn't fault me, but he could be angry about it since I was saying these things to little to late. So I'm just confused, that even though he says he doesn't love me or care about me in any fashion at all anymore, then why would he be angry about me wanting to try and work things out? If he's feeling that strongly to where he reaches his boiling point at the idea of me wanting to try and work together to save our marriage, does anyone else think it might be possible that there is still a small part of him (even though he denies it) that he wants to make our family whole again? Unless I'm mis-reading the anger piece of it. Just because I know in the past, I've had exes tell me that they want to try again, and I had nothing left for them in my heart, it didn't anger me in the least bit, nor trigger any other feelings since I truly didn't care anymore at that time.

[25yearsmlc]

Hopeful79

please stop freaking out.
If your h says he'll go to Retrovaille and he goes, he WILL get something out of it.

But you must NOT say a word about ANY pressure or hope you have for more than what he says...do not mention the "low %" chances or "Small possibility" just assume and expect nothing

or at least SAY NOTHING to your H about it...not a word about working on the m.

You are doing a lot of mind reading about what his anger means but I'd take it at face value for now.

He says NOT to discuss the future together with him so do NOT discuss it other than as a co parent.

So stop shooting yourself in the foot with your mouth.

Your worries and fears are crippling you and hurting your cause. You have to get a grip.

When you go to Retrovaille, and frankly I'm surprised he's going b/c when we went, each party PRIVATELY had to assure the Retrovaille people that no OW or OM would be interefering in the weekend or the marriage.

Do not ask your h about that^^^ please. Just say nothing about it and be glad that he's going.

So, once you get there and hear the other "team" couples share their stories, (which will make some of your problems shrink by comparison) you'll both hear things that surprise you. Let what sinks in YOU be your focus on and not what sinks into HIM....

I can't help but think you're worsening things with the talking and trying to convince him to try. It's like you are doing the opposite of DBing.
The more you try to persuade him, the more he'll resist that.

So back off big time.


Go to Retrovaille and trust THEIR process,

and let THEIR words sink into him but focus on yourself.

Do not go to it and keep staring at him to see if he's "getting it" or changing his mind yet.

Do NOT take the temperature of the r while you are there at all. Retrovaille does that enough for you but subtly..


It's a process and by that I mean that when we went, we were open minded but it started off a bit slow for me.

I listened and reflected but kind of just waited. They'd give us assignments and we'd do them together or apart (they'll tell you which)

and we'd share and learn. Things were revealed by h and me and sank in me over the weekend.

I was surprised by some of what h said and it's important to follow the rules the folks there give you. Such as do NOT ARGUE or disagree with what your h says he FEELS - b/c that is what he feels.

So again, back off. If you knew what I knew about Retrovaille (only b/c we went) you'd let it unfold and instead of taking your h's temperature and clinging to any sign

work on YOU and your part in the future, you'd do YOUR work and let him do his. For instance, How will YOU co=parent with this man?


FWIW, my gut says you are so fraught with fear about losing him you have not seriously examined how well YOU have been treated in this marriage, or how poorly.

At some point you may want to address some of the other issues you have with him, like why he'd never let you meet his work people and how you were treated in the m -

but Retrovaille's weekend does not pretend to solve all your issues. There is a follow up part of this program, over several weeks, to address those concerns - but the weekend itself is to jump start things AND to see if there's something to "rediscover" in the r, which is what the word Retrovaille means.

Do not tell your h that^^...just go, listen and trust their process.


For now, just get through the weekend with the hopes that you'll get along better after it's over. How about that as your stated goal? Maybe it'll be the friendship you have and that's it...

but really really do NOT pursue him now. I'd say nothing more than "hopefully we'll learn how to get along better, for son's sake so his future is smoother" and leave it at that. It's true anyhow and it lessens the pressure your h is feeling. A lot of that pressure is coming from YOU projecting your hopes onto him...the more you talk about it, the more nervous he'll be. Act as if you get that it's all about what's best for son now and that's all this weekend is about and you're okay with it and you'll listen to the folks talking but you get it...you "get" that he's done....no pressure from you. Got it?



and don't speculate about what he is feeling now or why. Anyone going to a retreat gets nervous before, so stop freaking.

Back off, relax and trust their process and

if you once had a great marriage then trust that in time those good memories will resurface in his memory.

IF YOU point them out or ask him to recall them, HE WILL SUPPRESS THEM so get out of the way and back off so he can allow them to come to him and he won't spend his energy resisting your efforts b/c he wont' see them...

give him the space he needs for now.

Hope this helps.

(( ))

[hopefull79]

LOL, I was trying to not talk to him about it, he engaged the conversation with me. He wanted me to tell him that I understood that this was merely for communication for our son, and that the divorce was stil going through, and didn't want me to go into the weekend with false hope.
All I asked him was that letting go was one of the options after this weekend, I that I'm open to 2, we either reconnect and decide to work hard to repair what we've broken, or we meet on the court date in 3 weeks to finalize the D. His mother and grandmother have both asked him to at least humor the option of reconciling through the weekend and that it's never too late for anything.
Hopefully he won't bring it up again with me until we're done. I tried to explain to him that any talks we have, or had have recently are all counter productive since it always ends in him screaming and being demeaning and me crying myself to sleep.
I told him if it would make him feel better to talk to one of the mentor couples that we had contact information for, and he said he wouldn't do that because he felt like he was being force fed purple kool aide after talking to one of the contacts.

[25yearsmlc]

LOL, I was trying to not talk to him about it, he engaged the conversation with me. He wanted me to tell him that I understood that this was merely for communication for our son, and that the divorce was stil going through, and didn't want me to go into the weekend with false hope.

fair enough. I saw maybe 3 couples going into our weekend with the same plan. I am positive at least one of the couples changed their minds after the weekend, if not two couples.


All I asked him was that letting go was one of the options after this weekend, I that I'm open to 2, we either reconnect and decide to work hard to repair what we've broken, or we meet on the court date in 3 weeks to finalize the D. His mother and grandmother have both asked him to at least humor the option of reconciling through the weekend and that it's never too late for anything.


good to know they are on the side of the m, but it may take a divorce for him to get the space he needs to view things more clearly...the more a person "talks" to the MLCer the more foggy and stubborn the MLCer becomes.

It's as if they see every talk as pressure and that makes them MORE determined to leave/flee. So in that sense the "help" that family/friends want to give CAN backfire or stall the progress.

I once told my x bil (before he left my sister) that I WANTED him to hurry up and "let her go", so she could find a man who'd treat her better like she deserved. HE was stunned by that comment and a bit more motivated. Later on in years he DID finally leave her, for good...and she did meet someone who is better for her and better to her and she is happier now than she ever would have been with her ex h.

btw, the ex h DID tell her that he "got it" and had made a 'huge mistake" and blah blah blah. She's honestly happier although I know she has regrets for the suffering her kids went through. (**ALSO ex bil remarried too. His new wife is, as HE describes her, "high maintenance" ---- the opposite of my sister..so clearly there is a GOD and karma's nice to see***)


Hopefully he won't bring it up again with me until we're done.


veer off the topic and say "we'll be getting to is soon enough" and besides, it will give you some communication skills which you'll need. Make sure YOU get them b/c he'll "forget" to use them whenever...but if you really get them down, then you can model them for him later on so no matter what happens, that will improve and you'll model by example which = you showing change...


I tried to explain to him that any talks we have, or had have recently are all counter productive since it always ends in him screaming and being demeaning and me crying myself to sleep.


that sounds as if you're saying he "always" loses his cool and "always" hurts you. Which is holding him responsible for how it goes. I am not disagreeing with you but I am wondering if that's such a helpful way of saying it. Or fair.

Maybe say "WE LACK the tools we need to communicate better (one of the reasons we're divorcing) so let's wait til after the weekend to address this issue please"....and then when you go there


and get the tools and use them successfully, that will undermine his belief that things cannot improve, yet it's not with you overtly pursuing him. Make sense?

I told him if it would make him feel better to talk to one of the mentor couples that we had contact information for, and he said he wouldn't do that because he felt like he was being force fed purple kool aide after talking to one of the contacts.

sounded like pursuit from you via a mentor couple, whom he has not yet met,

and it backfired. Leave him alone. Hopefully your mentor couples will impress you as much as ours impressed us. Not all the couples you call are the same as who'll be there at the retreat, btw.

Good luck!

[hopefull79]

So tomorrow we're leaving for Retrouvaille. I'm on pins and needles just worried about the car ride after we drop off our son.
I printed out a few chapters that I would like my husband to read in The Divorce Remedy, but I'm not sure if I should or not. I also have other articles that I would like him to read as well.
Yesterday I called his mom again, just for a little more reassurance about if he's really going in with an open mind, and she told me his grandmother just heard she had to go in for heart surgery tommorrow. They're not sure what exactly needs worked on though as of yet, and she told me they wouldn't know until they had her under the knife, which didn't make sense to me, but whatever.
Then I talked to my husband about it, and he told me we'd be on call all weekend in case something happened with his grandmother, which I totally understand since I love his grandmother a lot. But while talking to him, I heard a baby laughing in the back ground, and another womans voice, and I didn't say anything but, "sounds like you have the tv going pretty loud" and he just responded with a, "yeah" So, of course my fears kick in that the OW, who just finalized her own divorce was there, in the marital home, with her 2 year old child.
I'm just so afraid that he'll choose to start a new life with the newly divorced, and leave our family in shambles. He's always been the type to want nothing other than to start with a clean slate. His answer to all of our conflicts was to just forget that it ever happened and start over. Like hitting the reset button on a video game or something.
I also spoke with one of the Retrouvaille people again last night for additional encouragement. It is slightly comforting knowing I'm not the only one calling in tears, and uncertainty, and of course fear of impending doom. I just know my worst fear is the drive back home, if he decides that he truly doesn't want to try and help rebuild our family. I'm wondering if I can just have him take a taxi to the nearest bus station for him to get home on his own if that were the case.
Hopefully we'll come back in the same car, and that I'll come back with good news on Monday.

[imthemom]

hopefull
I am in no position to be giving advice, my sitch is by far resolved, but even I can tell that you have way to many expectations for this weekend....

I wouldnt print out ANYTHING to give to him, or give him ANY books to read. He will just think it is crazy attempts on your part to "prove his is wrong" and I dont know about you but I never react well to that.

I wouldnt even mention or bring up the R on the ride home...if it does make him think, he needs to get home and have some time to hash it over in his mind away from you. If you pressure him on the ride home I think you will ruin any progress that may have been made. dont expect this miraculous talk on the way home of him saying hes seen the light and want to try again, it most likely wont happen that way, although I know you wish it would...wouldnt that be great??!!
let the weekend happen and then let it go .....and just watch and see if there has been any change in him...
Thats just my thoughts...I know how you are feeling, I wish everyday that SOMETHING would happen to open my Hs heart and let him see what he is walking away from...

but thats something they have to figure out on there own and it has to be on there timeline....

good luck this weekend!!!

[hopefull79]

wow...all I can say is wow!!! I just took 2 days to type a journal entry that ended up being 9 pages long, rehashing the journey we took from my point of view. It's very long, detailed enough without breaking the first rule of retrouvaille, in where you don't spread the details, so that I can share that with my husband, and my very close family and friends. I'm even willing to share it with anyone willing to read it for more advice, or anyone wanting to read it for a small message of hope. This program should be mandated by everyone who files for a divorce before they have their first court date!