Divorce not busted 3

[june72]

Orich, reading up on your old posts- some of the things you wrote so echo my thoughts on my own situation.
Wishing you the best! Positive vibes your way.

[sandi2]

"I'm not expecting thank you's but something other than her windows have water marks would be nice."\

Give an example of what "would be nice" in your opinion....given the situation. Then, we can tell if you really are expecting too much. Under normal circumstances, what would have been her reaction to you detailing her vehicle?

I don't think a simple "thank you" is expecting too much from a normal person, but do you think your W is acting normal? WAS's are probably the rudest, most self-centered people on planet earth. Even depression can be a form of being self-centered b/c that person has their attention on themselves instead of others. (I'm not talking about clinical depression--which is a more serious problem.) You said your W had been depressed for quite a while, so I think a lot of things she would normally say is either forgotten or somehow falls by the way-side. If the reason she's not at least saying "thanks", that means she either takes what you do for granted or else she does not appreciate you and show her appreciation as she should. I am probably the world's worst at telling the ones closest to me how much I appreciate them b/c it's like I think they "should know it" without me telling them. That sounds somthing like a guy would do, doesn't it? (lol) Just shows that gender has nothing to do with it.

You are much more sensitive to what she says and doesn't b/c of the stitch and b/c you are not detached. When you detach, it will not matter if she says anything.

I am concerned about the ever growing problem of not communicating and becoming more & more distant with each other. If she is deeply depressed then it is a sign she is withdrawing and retreating into a shell. Do you see her acting "normal" with other people? Is it just you that she has nothing to say? Does she show interest in activities? I know you said she enjoyed planning events....so does that still tend to bring out the best in her? The reason I am asking these questions is hoping it will help you decide how much is related to a form of depression and how much is related to a bad MR. I know I was not happy in my M and that caused me to be depressed, but if you knew 100% that she was suffering only from depression due to other events happening in life....it would make a difference how you responded to her. So, I hope that the retreat will help to sort these things out better for you. I have not pointed that out b/c I did not want to add to your confusion about what to do, but I am concerned about her depression. If she is lacking certain hormones, then she will not have a desire to ML....or do much of anything else in the M. I don't mean to imply that all women who aren't attracted to their H's are lacking in hormones, but neither did I realize how large a part they affected one's life until I found a doctor who FINALLY saw I was registering about zero on the charts and begin to get me the medicine I needed. It helped with the depression, energy level, sex desire, and yes....even the attraction. You may come back tomorrow and tell us that you discovered she has OM and in an A, but sometimes I feel that we are too quick to think the worst. I left my H (for a short time) early in our M--and I certainly had no OM on my mind! There are other things...believe it or not. I was just so unhappy and saying much of what your W is telling you. The danger for her is that it makes her very vulnerable to and some other man. Isn't it getting about time for your retreat?

[sandi2]

Orich, in reading over what I posted, I want to tell you that you do not need to undo what you are "attempting" in detaching from the stitch--until you have some solid information regarding her physical & mental condition. I expressed my concern for her and told you of a "possible" condition other than her being in a mindset of a WAW--in order for you to realize that it doesn't HAVE to be one thing and one thing only. I don't want you to change your DB techniques unless you find out that she is not a WAW and does have these other problems. I wanted to clear that up in case I might have given the wrong idea.

I do hope you will answer the questions I asked.

[FaithfulH]

If she is lacking certain hormones, then she will not have a desire to ML....or do much of anything else in the M.

Orich,

I want to reinforce Sandi's idea as being a very credible possibility. My W only recently learned of several medical problems that had contributed to her state of mind during the time she filed for S and D. They were both hormonal (menopause) and vitamin deficiency based. She was desperately lacking in Iron. These conditions have since been remedied mostly through natural means such as dietary changes and supplements. The unfortunate thing is that our W's often have to be the ones to initiate diagnosis and treatment. For us to call it out only seems like a diversion from dealing with our own issues....which also contribute to the demise of our sitches. So, in the end, I am thankful that we went through what we did because it brought us BOTH to a healthier place.

[Orich]

Sandi, there is some confusion here because our MC thinks there is depression involved, and her gynecologist and GP thought she needed medication, so she was put on a mild antidepressent. She only took it for a week, because she didn't like the side effects like feeling spacy, and an inibility to orgasm (we were still MLing then). So the medication never had time to take effect. What's confusing is that she does do fine outside of the R. She seems ok with things not related to me. She write as much in that letter she sent me. I do notice however a short fuse when it comes to the kids, but she has always handled stress badly. The weekend is coming up, Sept. 11. One thing she seemed to focus on in her letter was she feels like if she truly loved me she wouldn't lose her feelings. I understand part of the weekend stresses how love is a choice, not a feeling. We will see how it goes.

[MrBond]

Detach your emotions from her actions so that they don't hurt you. I remember sandi once telling me to approach my W as if she had a mental illness. That mentality helped me alot in terms of not taking what she was doing personally.

Give that a try.

[Orich]

Also Sandi, as far as expectations. I don't expect a big hug or kiss or anything like that. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a sImple thank you. Take this morning for example. The boys gave her iTunes cards that I bought obviously. She thanked them over and over, hugs all araond. I gave her a new car stereo. She has been saying how much she wanted a new one. She examined it like a scientist. Finally, I got a half hearted acceptance. I don't think I got a thank you. Anyway, she went off to work while the kids were asking her to stay home. She said something like it's daddies turn now, alluding to her week off with them which she was very stressed by the end of.

[sandi2]

Okay, well it may not be her hormones if she seems okay outside the R. But I believe it is more obvious in a MR b/c of the intimacy involved and how unbalanced homones will definately show the bad side of a woman. She would be able to "control" her behavior or attitude to others in most situations, but in her M it would come to the surface. Anyway, I thought I had mentioned the possibility before but couldn't remember.

Stuck is right about taking what your W says so personally....if it is due to her hormones being out of whack. (BTW, it takes a lot of lab tests that my regular doctor was not doing.) Anyway, she has a lot to learn b/c I know I use to rely upon "feelings" also and it would worry me b/c I could not produce those feelings. I had the same thoughts that she is having. It is natural for her to long to have those "in-love" feelings that she had in the beginning of the R. What she doesn't understand is that it has to come from her instead of waiting around and think it will either "happen" or it won't.

[givingitmyall]

O,

The point that I keep seeing is that regardless of how you label them (manners, not too much to expect X, Y or Z), they are still EXPECTATIONS. You are correct that, in a normal MR, it would be entirely proper to expect a thank you or some form of acknowledgment from one's spouse. BUT, and this is THE point, you aren't in a normal MR right now. Your W is something akin to an alien who is NOT going to behave like a normal, loving W. She just ISN'T.

So, the sooner you accept that fact, and it is a fact, the sooner you can get on with the business of detaching. You simply CANNOT have ANY expectations, no matter how small they are, when it comes to your MR. Until you get to that point, man, you are going to keep setting yourself up for further heartache and pain. It really is that simple.

Do things b/c they are the right thing to do FOR YOU, and no one else. DO NOT have ANY expectation of anything when you do them. NONE.

Not trying to sound harsh. Just wanting you to get on with it so you, and your M, have the possibility of getting better.

[Orich]

Gima, I know what you are saying. And believe it or not, I wasn't upset this morning when she didn't really thank me. Maybe I am starting to detach after all. I am not stewing bout it at all or anything, I am just looking forward to a great week with the boys.
I want to Kinda journal for a minute here. Yesterday we went to a cubscout event for my older son. There were a few moments where we were actually having a good time together, so there are godd albeit very small signs here And there.