I really wish Michele would write a book that expounds more about dealing with the feelings and logistical issues that come up when kids are involved in these sitches.
The basis of what is written in the book is motivating to avoid divorce. I wonder though, once a separation has occurred and that damage done, is it a different scenario? I mean, I haven't seen an iota of information that affirms that having parents separate or divorce and then reunite is preferable than parents just staying divorced. And, yes, I understand that kids want their parents together but doesn't the experience of parents separating, going through all of the pain and logistical nightmares and then reuniting, potentially set up a sort of dependent model...that somehow things are really not ok unless another person takes the desired action? I mean that rather than adapting and adjusting and healing, the situation is sort of saved by the desired one's return.
I am not suggesting that reconciling is bad, I still think it is optimal. I am saying that with regard to the kids, what are they really experiencing in these crazy situations? One's in which H's are off impregnating other women or W's are out on the town with new boyfriends?
I don't know. Right now I am so disgusted and saddened that my kids have to go through this. That I am missing moments I would NEVER have missed if not for my H's behavior. I don't have any reason to think that adapting them to a new life, losing so much (and we will, H has no idea)...going through all of that pain, that a reconciliation would be optimal.
I guess I feel that all we get are 101 reasons to avoid divorce and really what we are being given are 101 reasons to prevent what many of us (in separations) are already going through with our kids.
So, I am begging Michele to please write a book with DB'ing for those who have kids. One that rather just reinforcing the fear we have about D, delves into the hows and whys of living through DB with children. The rules are so different when co-parenting or dealing with a spouse who is spiteful or provocative with kids in the middle. We need so much more guidance on how to protect them and model healthy boundaries and behavior in this process.
Not a bad idea. I have a 3 and 5 year old, and I can't believe that w is willing to put them through a life of separated parents.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
I haven't seen an iota of information that affirms that having parents separate or divorce and then reunite is preferable than parents just staying divorced.
Having, as I once posted waaaaayyyyy back on #1 or #2, read about 500+ social and clinical psych articles on divorce as part of my research assistant duties for a well-known conservative social scientist who wrote a couple books on the economics and politics of marriage and divorce, the reason you haven't seen "an iota of information that affirms that having parents...reunite is preferable" is because there isn't any.
No one's bothered to study it systematically because there are no good data on the number of reconciliations (second marriages between same partners are not enumerated separately in state records), let alone the number of reconciliations that wind up -- Liz Taylor and Richard Burton-style -- in second divorces from same spouse. Plus it would be hard to suss-out why good-second-marriage-to-former-spouse would necessarily -- and "necessarily" is necessary because in your original query you're looking for affirmation -- be better than good-second-marriage, full stop.
Carla Garrity and Mitchell A. Baris, Caught in the Middle: Protecting the Children of High-Conflict Divorce -- but that's really about "high-conflict."
Julie A. Ross, Joint Custody with a Jerk: Raising a Child with an Uncooperative Ex.
M. Gary Neuman, Helping Your Kids Cope With Divorce the Sandcastles Way.
Nicholas Long, Making Divorce Easier on your Child.
I suspect the reason you don't see DB-with-kids literature is that the concept is too nuanced for children. If they think you're DB'ing -- and have some sense that means you're trying to get Mommy/Daddy to come home -- and you "succeed" at "failing" (you're better but the D is still on), then this would (it seems to me) simply have the effect of making it worse on the kids.
Franky I don't think they should know you're (we're) DB'ing at all. "But I thought you were going to make Mommy/Daddy come home!"
Cool. I am not talking about DBing with the kids in on it. I am talking about how to apply vague principles to situations in which children are involved. That was my most glaring issue with the book. There is LRT without kids which is a whole other ball game as with, obviously.
The kids shouldn't be privy to it. I just have a tough time determining the "best interest of the children" once in the vortex that is separation. And, often boundaries that may appear to protect me (giving up family time) may ultimately not benefit my kids. And, I AM able to woman up and deal with a lot more if I know it will ease the suffering of my little ones. Hard to know when in the thick of it which way to go.
the issues with kids DO make this infinitely more difficult. My children are adamant in the belief that their dad is coming home (S17 just jumped on this bandwagon, BTW), but they understand that it will happen when it happens. Or, as they say it "in God's time."
When DH told D9 he was NEVER coming home, she politely informed me that Daddy does not understand that God is in control, not him. My kids would much rather have me stand and wait for daddy than to give up and move on. Even without my own convictions coming into play, I would do what ever it takes to reconcile my marriage for the kids' sake. The fact that our marriage was NOT high-conflict, overall happy, and a healthy home life for the kids makes me stand firm in the face of what some consider insurmountable odds.
How to DB with kids? Take the kids' needs into consideration and remember Smiley's theory on "friendiness". It makes it easier overall on the kids, no matter what the outcome. So, with family time, sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. Because "sometimes Daddy needs time with you by himself, just like Mommy does sometimes, too."
Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~ SMW
M40/H36 T16/M14 4K B2/08 S4/08 current
Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. I Corinthians 13:7
For me and my kids, I don't want any of us that invested in what H may or may not do. I want them to feel as full today as they would if H walked right back in the door.
Having a parent die when I was young really illuminated that for me.
Even if it is about God's plan which is the same as "what will be will be" in non-religious terms, that includes other humans by their own free will or the unforeseeable (maybe getting run over by a truck) landing where they land.
SMW- I really do admire you and your convictions. I am just expressing my pov...respectfully. Plus, you sure as sh*t seem to be doing better than I am.
As for as my conviction to a long term stand, let me give you an excerpt from a thread I started back before either of you were on the boards. Maybe you will understand my perspective better:
Originally Posted By: SadMilitaryWife
{and that was my "original" screen name when I came on here)I love my husband. I believe I always will. I always knew that if something were to happen to him, that I would be content to be a widow for the remainder of my life, as I have known true love in my marriage and have no desire to look elsewhere for more. Thinking of my DH fills my heart with joy still, as I can remember both the good and the bad and cry equally for both, not in mourning but in gratefulness for all he has brought to my life to make me the woman, wife, and mother that I am today.
I know that neither of you intend snark, and I do appreciate the fact that you are accepting of my spiritual convictions. Many who do not ascribe to my belief system are not nearly as accepting as the many people I have met in this community. Maybe it is part of the "been there, done that" camaraderie we develop from going through the same thing.
As for my doing better, AK, I don't know about that, but I do know where my strength comes from. We talked about this in church today.
Originally Posted By: 2 Corinthians 12:8-10
Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 1That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Through God's grace and indwelling of the Holy Spirit, I am given the strength to stand through any machination of the enemy, as I know Who is Sovereign.
Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~ SMW
M40/H36 T16/M14 4K B2/08 S4/08 current
Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. I Corinthians 13:7
SMW, thank you much for that last post. I am going to highlight that passage in my bible. This situation is trying my faith. Not that I will abandon it, but it brings about many questions. That passage was read at Mass today, I couldn't pay too much attention to Father's homily because of a very figity 3 year old. I will meditate on that passage tonight during Vespers.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
