Can anyone answer this? Part 8

[FightingFit]

hi SL... i think its a pretty common thing to look back and realise the midlife crisis started a long time ago. I think thats part of it.. it doesnt help of course but it clarifies things I guess.

I think they are very aware of the damage they do to their family and children. I think thats just part of what keeps them running. Men and women are different... women tend to want to nurture and heal but with men, they want to FIX it and when they decide... I CANT FIX THIS... they decide to throw it out instead - get a new model - start again. as callous as that sounds. if they give up on any idea of fixing, they toss it away. thats their mentality, and unlike women, they tend to do it decisively and strongly and with determination not to look back. its very painful.

i think in the end sometimes they decide that running away is the 'strong' thing to do. we think they're being weak but they dont they think they're being the 'strong one'. they think by running and forcing us to accept their absence they are doing us a favor. i really saw that in my ex, still do. if theres a lot of shame involved they get a mentality they dont 'deserve' to go back and they also believe it 'cant be fixed'. ie i did too much. we cannot convince them otherwise.

i think you have been really strong, and will continue to do so, and just being true to yourself and honest, what else can you really do in the end? we cant control someone else, or their feelings, or what they want. we can call them sick, we can say they arent the same person, but they have the rights to choose their own life and make their own mistakes; and pointin them out only makes them more determined to go their way.

dont feel unworthy for loving him and wanting your family back. dont be like that bc its a strength to love someone and you had a lot invested and a lot of history. your not a victim your just someone who had smething had happen and wants her life and family back and thats not a shameful thing, it doesnt mean you are like some kind of beaten wife; look how many of us there are! you are a loving person, you appreciated what you had this is good - look how many give up so soon. be proud of who you are. we all get thru this at our own pace with many changes back and forth. theres no rules. theres no 'strong' and 'weak' way of dealing with it.

[sandi2]

Hi again, I hope you are feeling well today and maybe even a bit stronger. If you have a day now and then that you do feel stronger, that is a good sign b/c it means you are growing and you are healing. I believe you do have lots of healing to do but not just over the M problems, but over all your years of hurt and disappointment.

You said you did not want to be mean to your XH if being in MLC was like an illness. In a way, it seems like an illness, but people must handle their R in different ways. Even the DR book gives more than one strick way of dealing with a WAS. BTW, I don't think you should be mean to your XH or try to get revenge in any way. I do think you need to come to terms with how things are now and try to make a life for yourself and move forward. I think that there are things that has happened that has left you feeling unloved, unworthy, and of no value to anyone. That is not true.....but I think it is how you "feel" at this time. You have based your value on other things and now those things have come tumbling down and you feel lost and hopeless. I do wish you could let go of what has happened with you and your XH b/c until you can do that.....you will never get to feeling better about life, yourself, and other relationships. You will not be able to feel happy, valued, and free to grow as an individual. These things are most important for your well being. Nobody can make that happen but "you". I'm sure that detaching yourself from what "once was" has been very difficult. I do believe you need to set a goal for yourself to try to reach every day. It should be a small goal that is reasonable and that you will feel good about accomplishing.

It is fine to come here to talk about your XH and the things that went wrong or what once was good, etc. However, let me try to gently point something out to you, okay? I spoke a lot of you and your self esteem in my last post. I suggested some daily goals or "steps" for you to do to try to start feeling better about yourself. But when you replied to my post, you wrote the same things that you have posted many, many times before......that being all about your XH. It's okay and I'm not fussing at you.....I want you to fully understand that. It's just that not one time did you mention anything about what you might do to help yourself. It was as if it was ignored. I could be very blunt and tell you that frankly I don't care what your XH did in the past or what he is doing now b/c the two of you are not a couple any longer and he has moved on with OW. I could tell you to forget about that jerk and make a life for yourself and stop living in the past. I could point out the fact that I do not see a person who is trying to get a life for herself and is wallowing in sorrow and self-pity. However, I am not telling you those things! I don't know, but I have a feeling that you have basically been told that before by somebody on the board and they grew frustrated with you and felt that you were not cooperating.......am I correct or is it my imagination? As I told you in the beginning, I will try to be here and help you just as long as you show that you are at least "trying" to make some personal growth in your life. I will listen to your sorrow for a time, but after a significate period has past and you are still saying the same thing over and over about your XH and you are not taking any steps at all to try to improve your personal growth, then I too will grow very frustrated. Now please understand what I am saying, Renee. I am not saying that I have no compassion or understanding...okay? It is simply that I will not know how to help you if you don't try to help yourself and I will no longer know what to say to you. I am not a professional counselor, but I wish I were and knew just the words to say. Don't think that I am agrivated with you b/c I'm not. I am only concerned that you are still saying the same thing in almost every post. I do understand why you updated me on the activities that happened and I appreciate your time in doing that. However, I did read about that before. So, I think I have most of the details about the MR. I just want you to be able to get past all of that stuff that happened and realize that you can do NOTHING about it. You can't change what has happened in the past.....you can only work toward a better future. Will you do that? Will you work to lay this behind you and look toward tomorrow? As long as you look "back" at what has transpired, you will never go anywhere. What good does it do to stand in one spot and continue to look where you have been? Nothing, except maybe learn from it, but you must turn your head and look straight ahead and put one foot in front of the other in order to "walk". I want you to start moving and begin that new, fresh walk toward your tomorrow. You are afraid and feel insecure and certainly without any self esteem. So....my question for you is what are your plans to do in order to change that?

I have asked similar questions before and they were unanswered. You did great at answering the questions I asked about your growing up years or your MR, however, you didn't respond to some of these type of questions except to agree that your self esteem was very low. I have some ideas that may work to help you but I need to see you trying to make a move to help yourself. All I can do is make suggestions, but it is up to you to do the work. So......are you trying to do as I suggested and look at yourself in that mirror everyday and say the things I told you to say? You may feel silly if you've never talked to yourself before.....but don't knock it until you've tried it. Talk to that reflection as if she was your best friend. That is the point. You must learn to be your own best friend and in order to do that....you've got to like Renee. If "you" don't like her.....rest assured that nobody else will!

So that is what I need to know, sweetie. Have you done anything that I suggested or anyone else has tried to get you to do?

I'll be anxious to hear from you.

Take care,
Sandi

[sandi2]

Okay, I need to back up........

I'm sorry b/c I have been sick and should not always post when I am like that b/c I think my days get confussed! I can't believe that I made the post (before last) after midnight--which actually made it....this morning!! It seems like days ago. So, if I sounded impatient, I apologize--sincerely. I don't change my mind about what I said, but I did think it had been longer and was wanting to hear that you had started something to make progress in your self growth.......... (Maybe I need to retire from the board!) So embarrasing! You may not have any "confidence" in me after this episode, and I sure wouldn't blame you.

Sandi

[Kimmie Lee]

Renee, I agree with Sandi about folks here getting frustrated and don't know how to help you if you won't take what they say to heart. You say that you listen to what they say, but what good does that do if you don't act on it?

By the same token, I see why you may be confused. One minute, posters are saying they don't believe your sitch is MLC, then it isn't, then it is again. I would have whiplash too.

The main thing is that your ex has moved on and you need to as well.

[sunshinelewis]

Kimmie and Sandi this post is for the both of you. (Sandi I will post to you personally in a bit). First, I DO appreciate all the effort and the things you are trying to do for me, I cant say that enough. Now...the both of you have said that I am listening and doing nothing to help myself. At the risk of sounding stupid and totally confused, truly I dont know what things you all and others on here "want me to do????", really I dont.

I have went back to college to get a degree in nursing (starting in Aug)

I go out EVERY nite almost, either to eat with a friend or just to visit with a friend, or sometimes I have friends over. I never was one to sit at home, even when I was married unless xh and I were watching tv or cooking, he fished alot or was at the fire dept., so I either went with him or went to friends.

Also, I have been tanning.
Got a New Hairstyle
Losing Weight
Going to Church
Working around the house...finally!
Trying to find a better paying job!
Getting ready to start my photography again
Checked into Digital Scrapbook Designs (may be a consultant)
and other little things.

Honestly please tell me what more can I do. I am just either stupid or just plain dumb, because I am misunderstanding what everyone here is saying. Everyone is telling me to GAL but I keep saying I am, but no ones seems to understand that.
Yes, I love my xh and I can not stop that as much as I wish I could. And yes I post alot about him because I think of him alot and cant seem to get past that part. I wish almost every day to have my family back, yes even after what he has done. I pray for him to be healed of whatever happened with him and for us to start a new 20 years. I know, however that he has to make that move and I can NOT force him. Guys, I do have good days, the crying has ceased (except for that very bad time of the month), and I dont walk around in a daze, but at the same time, I am not jumping for joy that I am single again. To be honest, I dont know when I will want another man, I wish I had a man, my man, but not another one.

I am sorry if I sound ungrateful, but I just dont understand.

Renee

[sunshinelewis]

Ok...Sandi, this one is for you (mom, lol).
First, I do post the same stuff over and over, I do realize this SOMETIMES, sometimes I do not because my memory is shot and I dont know how to find or post my past threads. Also, I try to update everyone I talk to because I dont know who reads my posts or not. If you met me in person, I am one of those people who makes a short story looooonggg. I talk, talk, and talk. I also repeat myself in real life, I think my memory has been affected by this and I am NOT joking. I have even apoligzed in some posts for this. So forgive me please.
I will try and go back and re-read my posts.
Also, I dont mean to ignore what you asked me to do, if I did, I am SORRY. I am very glad you are taking the time to help me as I was with others here such as Snodderly. I am sure Snodderly as well as others is just plain fed up with me, they think I am going nowhere real fast. As in the above post to you and Kimmie, maybe I DONT understand what is needed of me other than GAL, which I am doing. Maybe I am not communicating enought about that. I will try better to do that also.
Sandi, I do have days now and then that I feel stronger, the sing and dance kind of days. It's the anger that my xh has that sets me back. I can handle the divorce but not the anger.
Can you tell me if there is anything I can do to make it easier for the both of us and our son. I dont want to have to walk around town on pins and needles worrying about bumping into him in the same restaurant and him getting an epo because he thinks I planned it. He says he learned from the best at playing games and the best was "me". He says he doesnt trust me.
Please tell me how to drop the rope, as they say. I dont want to be stuck. How can I let go of what has happened.
What kind of small goals are you talking about, am I not doing enough already.
Yes others have told me the same thing as you, but let me say this...I thought that It was ok to come here to talk about xh. I thought this board was about trying to save your marriage. I KNOW that I am divorced already, but I didnt get the chance to DB. I didnt find this board until I was already divorced (I think), and even though I am divorced I am still trying to stand for my family. I am trying to go on with my life, while leaving the door ajar. I pray about it and I dont feel like GOD has said to let go yet, I just dont. No matter what my xh says, or anyone else. I will keep praying for my family. Now, this does not mean I will not GAL and move on daily. Yes I need to get stronger and yes I need to drop the rope for now and that I am trying to do with people like yourself helping to teach me how.
Honestly I did not know I was repeating myself as bad as you all say. I also dont want to drown in my sorrow.
Sandi, I wanted to ask you, in your opinion, how much farther along this path should I be by now. Am i really that far behind, should I have been alot better by now. I know everyone is different, but I see people here talking like me that has been in this for 2 years or longer. I am just now right at 6 months divorced. I didnt think I was doing that bad.


So....my question for you is what are your plans to do in order to change that?

I honestly dont know what else I can do other than what I am doing, except maybe stop talking about my xh as much on this board, and really I thought I could do that. I am soooo confused. I am sorry.

So that is what I need to know, sweetie. Have you done anything that I suggested or anyone else has tried to get you to do?

The mirror thing no, but I will start.
Other than that just the stuff that I listed above.

Renee

[sunshinelewis]

Sandi, I also wanted to add that I will do better about putting my foot down on my son more.
He does help out around the house alot, it's just his attitude that is so much like his dad's that I have a problem with.

Also, I wanted to add that everyone here, as I said, seems to think I repeat myself. I got to thinking...my xh and son always told me the same thing. They would say I would ask the same questions over and over. I thought they were just picking at me and thought nothing of it. My xh said I would dwell on things too much.
Maybe there is something wrong with me that makes me do this without even knowing it.
Sandi, some people here have told me to try and figure out where I went wrong in the marriage. Maybe this was one of those things that help ruin it. I dont know, and I probably never will because xh was unwilling to go to c.

Renee

[sunshinelewis]

Sandi I also wanted to ask you if most of the MLC'ers tell the lbs to move on and find someone else to make them happy? My xh seemed really sincere about me finding someone else and moving on.
I dont ever remember asking that, I was just wondering.
Hope you are having a nice weekend.

Hugs,
Renee

[WCW]

BTW, you have read the DR book, right?
No I havent, I cant really afford to buy it and I am divorced and I didnt know if I still needed to read it anyway.

Hi sunshine, I don't follow your whole threads but was skimming this morning while having coffee. This caught my attention, and I call BS. It's easy to come here and post and post and post and come up with excuses for how not to do your own work. You've been here how long and haven't read the books? and you can't afford them? BS. I couldn't afford them when I first started because 'our' income had been cut in less than half. I went to the library. It's free. You can also try half price book stores, good will stores, etc......
Still can't afford the books? but you're tanning and going out almost every night. Priorities, where are yours? just wondering.
Take care.

[sandi2]

Dear Renee,

I had hoped you would see my "tag post" where I realized that I had gotten confussed about the dates, etc., and thought it had been a lot more time passed than it had. I was shocked when I saw that it had been less than 24 hours! That makes me think something is wrong with me! If my brain is getting that confused....then maybe I need to stop posting. The last thing I meant to do was to hurt you by my words. As I told you in the beginning.....I speak bluntly and to the point and that was one of the things I sort of held back about and wondered if I was the right person to try to help you with anything. When a person is already suffering in their life, it doesn't help for another one to come along and hit them over the head with a club and I'm afraid that is my technique a lot of the times......due to my own impatience.

As I told you in my post.......Yes, you can come here freely to post.....to journal.....about your XH and anything else that is bothering you! It was my "bad" that I missed the time span that you had actually been divorced. I was consentrating more on trying to get you to start working on your self esteem b/c I felt that until you felt better about yourself, you would not be able to truly be happy and would continue to cling to "what may have been". That was my urgency in the matter. However, I realize these things take time and I should not have pushed you so hard. I did not know you were doing all those things to GAL and am very glad to hear about it. I must have missed that part and read all the posts that were sounding alike. At any rate, I don't want you to be hurt at me or anybody else on the board. I know for me, when I have been here on the board as long as I have and reading sooooo many posts.....it is easy to get some of them mixed up and confuse the dates. It is always embarrasing to me but it happens. I can't really speak for everyone.....just "Sandi", but a lot of times I probably need to back away for a while b/c I do sense the impatience in myself b/c I want to see faster progress in a person's stitch. It is thrilling when you see a person apply techniques that actually make a difference in their life. But, it has to be up to that individual......I have no control over it.

As I told you before, you remind me of some people who have been close over the years and I think it was b/c I was seeing a "replay" of sorts and ..........well, let's just put it down to bad timing and my poor posting.......okay? I don't want you to stop b/c you think you cannot say what you feel you "need" to say in order to deal with your stitch. You said you could not afford counseling/therapy, so this should be your souce of therapy. I know it was for me when I came on board.

Some posters are most blunt and some are down right "brutal" in their words, but you have to pick those that you feel you make a connection with and who seem to really want to help you. If you do not feel that "click" with the poster, then don't let it get to you b/c we all have our own opinions.

I was refering to any "goals" that you had tried to set for yourself. I had suggested talking to yourself in the mirror or whatever worked best. Some may think that is a silly way to do self therapy but you can try and if you don't like it then chose some other way. I am trying to start at the bottom to find a way to help you to learn to like yourself and to build your esteem. As I said, I'm no professional, but I have read a lot about the subject and I don't remember as well as I use to, but I know that that is a way to start.......with "self talk".

I do believe very strongly in prayer to God. I could talk for days about the ways He has answered my prayers and worked in the lives of my family. The point is that He will help you to get past this hurt and He will help you heal from the things that has happened to you in the past. In most areas, I feel that things should be left completely up to God without our "help". But compare it to looking for a job and asking Him to make one available. If we did not at least attempt to go looking, would He have an company president or some employer come to our door and ask us to come to work for them? Guess we could get off into a lot of debate in stuff like that and that is not my point. My point is that in the area of your self esteem, I believe you need to do whatever you can to raise your esteem. I think you should ask God to heal your hurt and to be able to deal with what the past has dished out to you......and He will! I feel that this board can be an avenue or source to help you in small steps.......and I hope you won't quit based on something one of us may have said.

I do believe you are trying, sweetie. I admit I pushed too hard too quickly and I apologize for that. I will try to slow down and give you more time.

Sandi I also wanted to ask you if most of the MLC'ers tell the lbs to move on and find someone else to make them happy? My xh seemed really sincere about me finding someone else and moving on.
I dont ever remember asking that, I was just wondering.

Oh yes, that is what we call "script" for the MLC/WAS b/c it is so typical. In fact, everything your H has done is very typical. It may have been all the changes in his work related areas in his life plus the stress of everything together that triggered his "change". We could guess at what it was and we could wonder if it is symptons of MLC or WAS or whatever, but it is best to look at the results and the facts as they stand today. The symptons of a WAS and one in MLC are so similar that it is really no use in putting yourself through the agnony of wondering which is which. It doesn't change what the end results have been is what I'm trying to say. Another lady I have been posting to is wondering the same thing about her H so she will know how to "respond" to him. Actually, the techniques of DBing do not always depend on whether it is WAS or MLC. Some stories may vary and there may be a unique stitch where things may be done a bit differently, but I can assure you that your stitch is NOT unique. It is a classic storybook case. Not a happy storybook, but classic never-the-less.

I understand you wanting to keep the door ajar where your H is concerned. I do not find fault with you about that. As long as you don't wish your life away, hoping that some day he will change his mind. It may or may not happen. You will always have love for him b/c we don't necessarily stop loving a person just b/c they did us wrong. However, I do believe that you COULD find happiness without him in your life. You probably don't ever see that happening from where you sit right now......but it CAN if you will allow it to happen. Renee, I think divorce is like a death. It is a death.........death of a M. I have been touched by it all around me except for me and my H. It is a tragedy.......in most cases, anyway. But just like in the case of a love one's death, we have to learn to move on. I think you must "grieve" over this loss and get through it where you will be able to be a healthy person afterwards. Until you grieve properly, it won't ever be "settled" in your mind. Does that make sense? Yes, it will take time and I should have been more aware that it had only been six months. That is not near long enough to have completely adjusted to a new life. You still have those tendancies to dwell on the past and rehash what he did and said and all the details surrounding the MR. Again, that is normal. You are NOT stupid! I never implied you were and don't do that to yourself, okay? I think a person has to be pretty smart to come here and pick up on all this lingo about DR & DB and all the terms used......especially when they have not read the book. I don't even think that it is an absolute that you "read" the DR book right now. If he leaves his GF and you think he is trying to make contact with you, etc., then you would probably want to read a copy to see the best way to respond to the situation. However, at this time, I think going dark (which is simply staying away from him and not contacting him) is the best way for you to go. IMHO, it is the "only" way to go.

I hope you read this soon b/c I hate to think you go another day with hurt feelings toward me or anyone else here. Try to regroup and start again, okay?

Take care,
Sandi