Sandi's Place

[sandi2]

Hi Stuck, I thought I would have gotten by to see you by now, but just haven't made it. Must be slowing down......

When you take your W out to the show and dinner, etc., be sure you do not "touch" her even in an unsexual way. The slighest touch on her arm or shoulder.....it puts pressure on her. While watching the show, don't try to put your arm around her shoulder or whatever.....no slight touch of the legs or hands or face......absolutely nothing. I know....it's awful, but that is the mode she is in right now. If you were to take her hand and walk into the theater, she would feel like you were pursuing her, and maybe you would not see it at all.....but that is why i am telling you.....so you won't mess up. That's what friends are for, right?

After this I'm not going to push anything anymore and just let her be the one to initiate.

So, are you admitting that this is a "push"? You know my concerns about it in the past, but you have been very determined about it. That is why I keep preaching to keep it as if you were with only a "friend".....nothing more. Oh, btw, please don't mention the word "pressue" or "expectations" while out during the evening. What you told her before was fine, but if you say it while you are out that evening with her.....it will spoil the mood. The words alone puts a damper on everything for her b/c she "knows" what you are thinking when/if you use those words while you are with her. Remember, the woman is your W and she can read you pretty well, right?

Try not to talk about the kids, okay? Stay away from topics of family or old friends (or new ones you may not like). Try to find other topics to discuss. Keep it very, very light, easy and laid back.

I did have a question though. While you were in your WAW mode and not liking your H, did you often mood swing from happy to depressed?

Oh yes!! It was horrible! At times, I wondered if I was loosing my mind. It would change from one way that morning to completely different by evening. My heart can't help but feel for her b/c it is a feeling I never want to experience again. The depression was something I've had to deal with a long time b/c of other reasons, but being an AWAW sure added to the problem. I also remember having some "panic" or anxiety attacks, but did not really know that was what was happening to me. I know realize what it was.

I've noticed my W going back into her depressed mode and even not wanting to do things with our Ds. I keep thinking that maybe she's thinking of OM and feeling trapped.

That is a normal process for her. She will go in and out of the state of depression......and may even need some AD's if it gets bad enough. She will think of OM but does not mean that she is contacting him. She has a lot of thoughts and emotions she is dealing with. If she has stopped making contact with him......then she will have to get through the grieving process which is not pleasant for a H to think about, but it is grieving the fantasy more than anything else. She has to allow her brain to get rid of those chemicals that she is addicted to......and like any other drug, it is not a good feeling to come down off that "high".

When a parent loses interest in doing things with their children, then you know they are truly "depressed" and it is not some silly thing that they are going through and can "snap" out of it. If it had not been for my mother being there for me and showing me her love and trying to understand as best as she could......I don't think I would have made it. I owe so much to her (and of course to God), and to my H for giving me so much space and the time I needed to heal from that awful crises I went through.

Take care and I'll catch you later.

Sandi

[MrBond]

Thanks Sandi. I really wish she wasn't still in contact with the OM, but I feel that if I say something, she's going to get angry and leave again. Do I even tell her that it bothers me? This guy even threatened our family (including her) in a phone call to me and she dismissed it because "I didn't hear it for myself." I had told her it bothered me alot and that she needed to quit, but she didn't.

Out of curiosity, if your H told you at the time that he believed that you were depressed and needed to seek help or to talk about things, how would you have reacted?

Today we had a really good day with our Ds, but then tonight, I accidentally brushed my hand against her breast as she was carrying my D and wanted to kiss my D goodnight. She totally recoiled and covered herself up with the blanket as if I was a total molester.

It's times like that that I feel the most lonely.

[sandi2]

Stuck, I know it must feel like a knfe stabbing you when your W reacts like that just from your touch, but I promise that it is not admormal for a WAW to feel that way. That is why I was saying so much about being careful not to touch her at all during the evening out to the show & dinner. She has to reach a place where she can "relax" around you and not be expecting you to jump her bones any minute. I can almost see your face react from that statement, but I said it just that way so you would see that that is what she is thinking (even if you would not do it....she is thinking it).

When my H confronted me about my activity he had discovered on the computer, he was very sweet and told me that I was addicted to it. I was sitting there like a little girl that had been caught doing something bad and was feeling shame and embarrassed. We both knew I already had the depression problem b/c I had been on & off of AD meds for years due to my Fibromyalgia. However, at the time of my EA, I was not taking anything! I don't believe he brought that up, and to tell you the truth, I can't remember if it was my idea or his about seeing a counselor (probably mine b/c he wouldn't go). Do you know where he really messed up in that conversation with me? When he said, "What would your daddy have thought about you doing what you have"? My dad had passed away many years ago, but I thought the world of him and my H knew that my dad's opinion of everything mattered greatly to me. That is when it turned ugly b/c I almost snarled at him and told him not to "dare" bring my daddy into this! The reaso I got so angry was b/c it was my H's technique of making me feel guilty and I knew what he was doing! It backfired on him very badly and caused much resentment. Just remember that laying guilt at the feet of a WAW while she is in the fog will only makes matters worse.

If you were to approach her about your concern over her depression, I would be careful as to how to do it. The timing needs to be right. For instance, don't do it the night you take her to the show b/c that would spoil the evening. (Don't bring up the MR or anything like that at all that night!) I think you will see when the timing is right for you to bring it up and be sure you tell her with a sweet, soft voice and show compassion and not like you are judging or that she is being "punished" for what she has done. (As if to say, "You put yourself in this shape.) I do believe it is all a natural process and in fact, it makes me think she is not in contact with OM or you would see more "highs" from her. The "highs" comes from when she has been in contact with him and he has been feeding her ego or has given her some type of false hope for their future.

The babysteps are so small and slow coming until it is almost unbearable for the H, but it is still the best way to proceed in this type to stitch. I think you know by now that I pretty well say what I think or feel and try to be as honest as I can. I don't give people a lot of "stuff" just to make them feel better......even though I do want to encourage them.....I don't believe in telling them that everything is going to be okay if I don't see much hope. In your stitch, I do believe there is hope, Stuck, but it will take a long time sweetie. I have told you over and over how my H has had the patient of Job (in the Bible) and if he had not been able to do that, we would never had made it.

I know it is harder with younger couples b/c we were already in a SSM for years before my EA happened. He had stopped sharing the bedroom with me a long, long time ago.....but never said that it was due to our R. It's a long story! But what I'm saying is that if we had had an active sex life together, then he would have been ready to pick that back up after I stopped contact with the OM. If that had happened when we were younger (knowing how he use to be) he would have wanted make-up sex and I would not have been able to do that and then he would have felt rejected and I would have had "more" guilt poured on me and felt even more frigid toward him. So, again, that is why I try to tell H's to keep hands off until the W can get through the "process". It only delays the healing if pressure is applied and if enough pressure is applied......she will walk out.

Let me say this about your plans for the show & dinner (and notice I don't refer to it as a "date"). You said after that you planned to not do any more pushing and leave it up to her. Be careful about what mood you present to her afterwards b/c if you pull back too much from her, she will see you as being cold and pouting b/c it did not turn into a sexual night. Remember, I know what you are doing, but I'm telling you what she will be thinking as a WAW. Depending on how relaxed she feels and enjoys the evening--will decide her mood the next days following it. If she finds herself enjoying being with you.......she may be confused or feel good (never know). You must be prepared emotionally for whatever mood she may have and determine not to let it move you either way.....okay? Still don't push her, but I would say don't decide to go dark on her. She will misunderstand and think you are pouting. Try to stay consistant in your moods. Don't follow her around or smother her by any means, but don't ignore her either. Maintain your PMA and keep things light and free of any pressure (as much as possible). Big job for you, but it will be worth it in the end. I can't tell you how slow of a process this is. I do believe it may not be as slow for younger people. I feel that the age I was when this happened to us has a tremendous affect b/c we were going through one of those "transistion" periods in our lives. You know, couples/people don't stay the same. When you M very young and as you go down through the years together, you get older and you go through natural transistions in life and your MR--and you have to learn to adjust to that new era in your life and R. It is not easy, but when you have one that is involved in an EA/PA, then it is even more complicated and difficult to get through it. So, I hope and pray that she completely heals from this A and it never happens again as the two of you get older.

Somebody told me to stop refering to my age......lol. I can't remember now who it was (maybe you, but don't think so). I try but when I am making a point such as this.....I have to do it.

One more thing.....and seems like I have mentioned this before, but I would stay away from watching any serious love stories on TV or DVD's as much as possible when the two of you are together. Instead, watch funny movies or even those action type shows the men all like (lol), but nothing that might hit close to home like watching a MR movie. You know, like where one is involved in an A or there has been a D or something of that nature. It makes it very uncomforatble for both people. I know there will be a time and place for serious R talks, but I think she needs to be the one to bring it up. Again, I hand it to my H for doing that! She needs to be the one to bring up the R b/c you will pursuing if you do it. Your job is to try to keep a relaxed & fun environment. Big assignment, huh?

I'll let you go for now. I hope you will post as often as you can so I can stay caught up with the stitch.

Take care,
Sandi

[sandi2]

Stuck, I never answered your questions about the OM. It is best not to bring him up in conversations if at all possible. However, if you have a small tape recorder or some way of recording a phone conversation, then if he ever pulls that stunt again, be ready with the evidence to show her.......and maybe the police. In what way did he threaten? Is he still trying to see her?

[MrBond]

The OM said something about you and your family better watch it. You don't know who you're dealing with. It's some threat alluding to the fact that he was a Navy Seal. Big deal. I know I could take him, but I didn't pursue anything because he was my W's boss and I didn't want to make waves for her at work.

Anyhow, we went to the show last night. Beforehand I took her to dinner at a nice Italian restaurant and tried to keep everything as light as possible. After awhile I actually started running out of things to say because she wasn't talking back or just giving yes or no answers.

Then the show came up, which was very good and lively. This was Mama Mia where there's alot of singing and dancing. At certain points I would look over to her and see her reaction, but I saw that she wasn't laughing at all the light parts of it. The walk to the car was one of the longest ones I've ever experienced. We didn't say a word to each other the whole time. I tried, but she didn't say anything.

Then when we got home, she wished me goodnight and went straight to bed. Ugh, sometimes I get the feeling that she blames the M for how she's feeling. Right now I feel like I'm the easy target because she doesn't have any friends and doesn't go out. So all her negative emotions get centered around our R. I think that's one of the reasons she sought out the OM at work where there are no responsibilities.

Gotta go, I'll write more later.

Thanks Sandi for listening.

[sandi2]

My first thoughts is that it sounds more like a flimsy threat and he sounds like a little boy throwing in the fact that he use to be a Navy Seal.........(wow, better not mess with him!) If I were to worry about anything, it would not be b/c he use to be a NS, it would be b/c there are so many crazy people out there and he just may be one of them. BTW, would there by any way you would know he was a NS unless "he" told you? If she knows that, then she would have to realize that he had to tell you himself in order for you to know.

[MrBond]

She told me he was an NS which I really don't care if he was the heavyweight champ of the world. I'd still take him on. : )

It's just she has seen evidence of his bad temper many times (he even threw a scalpel at someone in the operating room because he was frustrated with that person) and not only fell "in love" with him, but didn't believe me when I told her about the threat.

How far gone does someone have to be in order for them to not face up to reality. I mean, I know we didn't have the best M, but to choose this guy over me is ridiculous.

Oh well.

One thing she told me last night which unfortunately really got to me, is that she told me about a writing job in California that I should apply for. At first I was shocked that she even mentioned it, because it would require me to move out of state for a year. And given out sitch, I wasn't sure if she meant it as a chance for her to fool around on me more.

I don't know if she still considers herself separated and "available" just because she doesn't have her ring on and she has never told me why she's back in the house, but I thought it was extremely rude and insensitive for her to even suggest such a move.

It got to me so much that along with her ice-cold reaction to the dinner and show Saturday night, I felt this really strong anger building up in me. On my way in to work today, I left a message on her work answering machine about it. I just felt I couldn't stand to be disrespected anymore. I told her that I was no one's "second pick" and that before she dared me asking if I didn't think she could find someone else. I told her that I had no doubt she could find someone else, but that she would never find someone who would stay by her side after she cheated on them, never apologized, treated them with no respect and like dirt, etc.

I told her that I was here for one thing and one thing only. Because I was her H and that's what H's do. But that I would not continue to take her talking down to me. I told her that she was not like that before and that I thought she might be suffering from depression and need help. I also told her that she really should think about how she's treating me and if she wanted to lose the last and only friend she has left.

I know, my bad. I think the pent up frustration just really got to me.

So when I get home tonight, I'll either find everything gone from the closets, or she'll be acting like everything is fine. That seems to be the trend.

[antlers]

Hey Sandi.

Just wanted to drop by and say that, and we're all thankful that you're here on this board.

Hope you're having some good days.

TTYL.


antlers

[song]

Hi Sandi,

Thanks for stopping by my thread and checking on me. I've been taking some time away from here. Thank you so much for all your loving advice and 2x4's, I know what I need to do now, which is accept that I can only change myself and continue to pray for my W and family. Anything else is me trying to control the situation, and I know that doesn't work.

I hope to come back some day and join the "piecing" forum while also helping newbies the way you have been. Until then, please know that you have had a very profound impact on me (and many others here), and I am grateful to God for crossing our paths.

Love,
Song

[sandi2]

Thank you Song and Stuck.

I have been really sick with the flu for over a week and I am sure ready to start feeling better! Song, I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

Stuck,

First let me say that I don't want you to feel like you are d*mned if you do--and d*mned if you don't, when I comment on your post. I don't want it to appear that I am always telling you that you did things incorrectly, okay? But, that is how we learn here on the board--by telling each other what we did or didn't do right.

I was concerned that you would feel disappointed after the dinner and show with your W. Even though you said you were not "expecting" anything.....I think you were. I know you did not expect sex, but you DID expect her to at least act nice and treat you better than what she did. The point is.....SHE knew you were expecting "something". I did not feel that she was ready for anything (even just a dinner and show) that even hinted at intimacy. Dinner for two and a show can put pressure on a MLC/WAW.

I think she was rude b/c she sensed you trying so very hard (even though you kept it light) and she knew in her heart that you were "hoping" that this would help the R. Remember, my H and I have been in the same spot as you are in now, and I could always tell when he was "over-killing" by trying too hard. I wanted him to just relax and be natural. I am not saying you were wrong in what you did......I'm just saying that I don't think she was quite ready and was on her guard b/c she knew you. Her rudness was to wart off any advances that you might even "think" about. All WAW's who are in this MLC that your wife is in--thinks and feels that way (IMHO).

Sure enough, you were disappointed......then you allowed that disappointment to build until you got angry. You were to the point of exploding and then you left a message on her answering machine at work. I am sure that every word you said was true! I only hate the fact that you left it on her phone at the work place. To leave such a message as that--at her job, is not the right way to do it. You may not have cared if it upset her at her job, but it just was not the right thing. You probably realized that....after the fact. (Don't we all?)

Anyway, it is done and I am anxious to hear what has transpired since then. So, please respond soon and catch me up on the details.

Take care,
Sandi