LOL - brings back a few memories. I haven't seen that movie. I had a car my first wife hated and in a bizaar way that was one of the fun things about it. Loud, uncomfortable, fast, brutal, and IMO totally cool. Of course when it came to the divorce she suddenly liked it and demanded half it's value which on these/those kinds of cars is significant. Can I ask what exact kind of car ? Late 60's Camaro ? Mustang ? Mopar ? (Roadrunner, 'cuda, Charger, etc...) Year ? I'm car impaired - have 6 right now. Luckily my wife likes most cars and tolerates me/them.
Stillhope- Loud, uncomfortable, fast, brutal, and totally cool is the perfect description! That is exactly it! (I'm tryin not to say exactly what the car is...not to torture you, but to keep my H anonymous. Who knows, you might run into him at a car show! Totally silly, I know...) H says we're gonna sell it to pay for college for the kids, who are 4 and 6 right now. I guess he figures he's got some time! There's a camaro he wants to buy and fix up for our D. He says he'll get it painted purple. I just say no. Two car garage and four cars as it is! he does love his cars!
OK. I am sitting in the shoe section at Walmart posting this on my phone. H saw therapist today and didn't feel comfortable with her. He says he'll look for a guy therapist. And he says he is getting sick and not feeling well, so he is just really quiet. Then he said we needed body wash and told me I could go to the store, before the kids were in bed and he never does that. I know that none of this means anything, and I built up this therapy appt like it was gonna make everything all better. I have been so hopeful, but tonite it all seems to be a waste of time. I got Passionate Marriage and started reading it. It is not an easy read. He will never be open to slogging thru all that. Very sad. Crying in the shoe aisle.
OK. Now I am home. He said I made it seem like I was going to buy a gift card and I would be back. That is such s**t. He told me to go. I called him from the store to see if he needed any medicine. He knew where I was. Now I walked in the door and he is mad. I was kind of incredulous. I said but you told me to go. He said don't put this on me. and he went to bed and that's that and I guess I'm sleeping on the couch. I don't wanna feel this bad anymore. i quit my job and followed him halfway across the country and now I have NOTHING, so I can't leave him and I don't want to but I don't know how to keep on doing this. What the F*** is the problem anyway? He leaves me in the complete dark I know nothing and I just have to smile and wait for him to work things out and I don't have any idea what those things are! I think he wants to leave. I think he was molested. I think he is still in love with his ex-wife from 15 years ago. I think he thinks I'm disgusting. ugly. high maitenance. demanding. I don't know.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness. I just had to get it out.
It will be OK in the a.m., and he will probably not even realize he upset you.
I completely understand how you feel. Reading Passionate Marriage did similar things to me. There were chapters in that book--you're right, not an easy read--that completely reduced me to tears and despair.
I thought the same thing you did: He will never read it. But that book changed me in that it made me more resolute to stand firm in myself and to see basic truths about our M that I'd never thought of before. I guess the shift in my attitude scared him a little...he picked up the book and began to read. I told him it was a hard read--a textbook for therapists (not really, but you know...) and he has been tackling it like it is a textbook, with sticky notes and yellow highlighter--(see me fainting)
But onward and upward for me. I have an appointment myself to check out a therapist for us tomorrow. The challenge in my town has been to find a MC that also has experience with sexual issues. Don't want to start with one who doesn't if you know what I mean. H doesn't really want to go, but he won't refuse as that would make him look like the "bad guy".
I agree with your H that he should find a male therapist. He needs to be comfortable in order to open up. Keep encouraging him. I will be doing the same soon I'm sure, as my H has yet to face his personal issues with intimacy which likely go back to FOO (family of origin).
Silverado, what you said about PM gives me some hope. Thank you so much.
Last night, he came back downstairs, which was good. Apparently, he was not telling me to go do grocery shopping, that is just what I heard. A true miscommunication. He thought he was telling me to go ahead and get the gift card, and I thought he was telling me to go to the store and do grocery shopping. Eventually, he understood that and agreed that he would be kinda pissed if he was me.
I was very upset and crying, which is so not what I'm supposed to do. I have such a hard time pretending to be happy when I'm not. I did tell him that it was my fault that I was upset. I said that I had built up ridiculous expectations for that therapy appt and was now dissapointed. Totally on me. (Trying to see my part in this whole thing, and not blame him for everything.)
I also said that I would try not to be sad, but that sometimes I would be and could we just make some room for that? I promised that when I was sad, I would try very hard just to be that without making it his fault. He agreed to try not to get mad when I am sad.
After things calmed down, he said that he did think he had made some progress with the therapist. She suggested that we both attend together, as well as that he should find a guy to see individually. The biggest thing is that she gave him some hope. He isn't feeling that his problem (whatever that is) is insurmountable. He finally agreed that we should do MC. I told him that we can see anyone he wants. A guy, that woman, whatever.
He told me that his ex left him on his b-day, which is coming up. He went to visit his parents and she moved out. He has never given me those details in all these years. I have been making special plans for his b-day, babysitter and everything.
Well, I tried very hard to make his b-day special. I had the babysitter come in the afternoon and we went shopping. I know that is not all that exciting, but he lost a lot of weight and NEEDED new clothes (and a pair of shoes.) We found him lots of good stuff and he seemed pretty happy. We went out to dinner and a movie. I "paid" for everything, which he will still have to pay for since I have no income to speak of (stay at home mom), but he thought it was funny and we laughed about it.
When we went to bed, he asked when we could ML again. I said when HE wanted to, and he said he did. So we did. I was "nice" to him (that's what my BF and I called it when we were teenagers) so we did not actually have intercourse. But I was happy and he was very happy, we snuggled maybe three minutes and then he started talking about our son and his fever. Anything to close that sexual door ASAP! It is so weird to go from the sexy girl to mommy at the speed of light! I guess this is something I can bring up in counseling, if he will really follow thru and make the appt.
mama...It sounds like continued small steps of improvement to me!!! This is good!
Just one thing about him suddenly turning away from the intimacy directly afterwards...
Have you read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus? This sort of thing falls into the catetgory of a man's habit of "rubberbanding". It is a part of the male intimacy cycle, and although its very confusing to women, if a woman is patient and watches this cycle from beginning to end, she will see that it nearly always ends with him snapping back to her even stronger than before (this is why John Gray calls it rubberbanding - after intense closeness, the man feels the need to re-establish his autonomy so he pulls back...when he reaches his feeling of autonomy again, his rubberband is stretched all the way away from you...then he SNAPS right back to you and wants more intimacy again).
Most men don't realize this is hurtful to women. They are just following their natural instinct to become autonomous. Men have a built in fear of intimacy, because it causes primal issues within him. For instance, if he is too intimate with you, he feels he will "lose himself" within the relationship, and if he "loses himself" then how can he be the man and protect you and children from harm? So for him to feel like he is losing himself is a very scary thing, thus the rubberbanding. Once a woman makes it clear to a man that he is communicating something hurtful to her when he rubberbands directly after sex, the man can usually make adjustments so that she will not feel this way. Many men just need to be told "hey honey, I need to you stay in the moment with me after sex for a little while so I can enjoy the intimacy...when you immediately talk about anything except the intimacy it makes me feel cheap and used and empty". Being that men don't realize you feel this way normally, you can't expect him to really understand your feeling without telling him about it.
This is not to say that your H doesn't have other intimacy issues, because you know that he does and that is why he is seeking counseling. I just wanted you to realize that the pulling away after sex is fairly typical, and usually can be dealt with by just telling him your feelings, in a sweet and playful (non-judgmental) way. If he feels you are disaproving of his basic need to re-establish autonomy, he will fight back at you. But if instead he realizes YOUR need to remain close for a short time after sex, he will usually be on board with that.
DQ, I have been reading the Men are from Mars book! I think you make a good point about the rubberbanding, but it really doesn't seem that way to me (though, goodness knows, I could be wrong!) In sexual terms, he keeps himself stretched out pretty far, lets go on occasion, and then has to stretch back out there again asap to regain his comfort level. I guess it's more like rubberbanding backwards! But he is not able to really talk with me about sexual things at any time, so I guess I am expecting a lot for him to have anything to say on the topic when he has been so exposed. One time I did tell him that I wanted him to whisper sweet nothings, and he seemed to get the idea not to change the subject.
I think you are right about asking him. He is so sweet, and he is really trying to "make me happy." Would it be unreasonable to ask him not to talk about anything else until morning? (We ALWAYS ML at night and sleep soon afterwards.)
Well...to not talk about anything else until morning seems like an awkward way to word it...but how about "honey, I would just love it if after sex, we could talk about each other, our experience, our feelings about it, what we liked about it, what we might like to try next time, and how much we love each other...rather than talking about various topics not related to intimacy. I feel so close to you after sex and I do not want to exit that intimate space right afterwards by changing the subject to every day events."
