Mark, I didn't forget about you, but I wanted to do some study on your posts from when you first came on until now.
Okay.
First thing I have noticed is that you seem to not be able to make up your mind on things. For example, when you are trying to make a decision on what to say to your wife or how to act, I notice that you say "on the one hand".. or things like "on the flip side" and such....
I have found it hard to give advice to people that do that because they are in the "new advice trap".. They ask for advice from everybody. They want men's advice, women's advice and anybody else who will offer an opinion.
This causes paralysis by analysis. "on the one hand their advice may work, and on the other hand maybe it won't"... "On the one hand you should set boundaries, and on the other hand, you need show her 180's".... and on and on and on....
You need to become DECISIVE. "This is what I have decided" is the attitude.
Next... Have you confirmed that your wife is having an affair? (she is) I didn't find or see that it was confirmed in your threads. It looks as if you suspect (and you are correct) that she is, but you haven't confirmed it. Is that correct?
THAT is the NUMBER ONE thing we need to focus on here. (not the affair itself, but that the gameplan is MUCH different. "On the other hand, some people are going to tell you it isn't much different" (I believe they are WRONG)....
Okay. That is a start. Let me know what you actually do know about the affair that she is clearly having. "On the other hand, maybe it is just coincidence that she suddenly lost weight, is dressing up when going out, supposedly staying at her mom's, her friends, and house sitting as well as rushing the divorce, getting another phone and on and on and on."
Let me know. I can't help you if you don't agree with me regarding the affair. The reason is that the best approach I have observed for getting a spouse back that is having an affair is NOT the one you are using.
Next... Have you confirmed that your wife is having an affair? (she is) I didn't find or see that it was confirmed in your threads. It looks as if you suspect (and you are correct) that she is, but you haven't confirmed it. Is that correct?
THAT is the NUMBER ONE thing we need to focus on here. (not the affair itself, but that the gameplan is MUCH different.
What is your advice for a spouse who is definitely having an affair then? I am curious as I am in that sitch. Thanks.
Me:39 H:40 S:9 D:7 First Bomb ONS:June 07 Second Bomb OW: March 08 Separated: March 08 M:15 yrs T:18 yrs H deep into A with OW Achieved ACCEPTANCE May 30, 09
I'm not Gucci, but I'd like to chime in anyway. I don't think that men and women should follow the same gameplan. Haven't you ever notice how many men grovel and crawl when they are kicked decisively to the curb? I've noticed on this site that there are gobs of understanding women that are willing to overlook the affair, even sleep with their husband, if they are just willing to give them another chance. What they should have done (in my opinion) is do what non-DBing women do naturally all of the time...kick the cheater to the curb. Guys want what they can't have...not what is thrown in desperation at them. You say, "No more" to a guy and he suddenly has to prove to himself he can have you again. Be "little Miss Understanding I was wrong to treat you so badly so I can see why you strayed" and you will appear much less attractive than the OW.
For men, maybe the kicking to the curb doesn't have to be as in your face, but I still think that a guy has to have a "I don't want to be with someone that is cheating on me" attitude, and let her know that it's so, especially through his actions. The actions should be of a person moving forward just fine without her. No butt kissing. No going out of the way to show how he's changed. Just make the changes...be the more attractive option, but don't flaunt it. For the moment, consider yourself too good for her. Work on your issues. Make the life you'd like for yourself. And then reap the rewards of your new life. If the cheating spouse still prefers the OM, it's her loss. And then the cheated on guy can't be a wuss about what he needs from his wife, should she choose to come back...and that is transparency, an end to any contact with OM, and a willingness to make her own changes to make the marriage work.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
What is your advice for a spouse who is definitely having an affair then? I am curious as I am in that sitch. Thanks.
Why are you curious? Are you thinking of changing course? (I would hope you are because what you have been doing certainly wouldn't work on too many men that I have observed in my life)
For a start, thank you for getting involved in my sitch. To get to cases regarding my wife and the supposed OP, all I can say with hand on heart is this - weight loss, new clothes and seductive underwear, no physical contact, nights spent with 'girlfriends', wedding rings not worn when I have the children yet they are worn when she has the children and she does the school run and mixes with other parents. ILYBIANILWU, basically the symptoms that point to OP. Since the bomb dropped in December '08 I have quizzed her on a few occasions and got the expected response, I also have not found any pysical evidence to support my gut feeling.
I can only presume she is now so suspicious of me that she is incredibly careful of being caught, or she is not involved in a EA/PA and is genuinely one of the people that decides a marriage is over because of her feelings. In other words, I cannot conclusively tell you if she is having an affair but if I had to put money on it I would say she is based on the above and a gut feeling.
Phoenixdeux, I so want to try and re-start our relationship, not reconcile as that takes two people to want to do that. I certainly do not want the woman I married at the moment, and she does not want the person she left, so I am attempting to make changes to improve me and my relationship with my children. Secondly, I hope my wife re-evaluates her decision to break up the family unit and would want to re-build our relationship.
gucci, I hope there is enough information here for you to play with.
Last edited by markhaving probs; 05/08/0909:06 PM.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
Poster: Phoenixdeux Subject: Re: markhaving probs dropping the rope
Positively mommy,
I'm not Gucci, but I'd like to chime in anyway. I don't think that men and women should follow the same gameplan. Haven't you ever notice how many men grovel and crawl when they are kicked decisively to the curb? I've noticed on this site that there are gobs of understanding women that are willing to overlook the affair, even sleep with their husband, if they are just willing to give them another chance. What they should have done (in my opinion) is do what non-DBing women do naturally all of the time...kick the cheater to the curb. Guys want what they can't have...not what is thrown in desperation at them. You say, "No more" to a guy and he suddenly has to prove to himself he can have you again. Be "little Miss Understanding I was wrong to treat you so badly so I can see why you strayed" and you will appear much less attractive than the OW.
I believed this as well and it was my first reaction after the OW bomb. Convinced my H is in crisis and caught up in an "addicted" A I moved to the MLC forum and got completely opposite advise. "Be pleasant, understanding, accept his olive branches", etc. And the main one - "Never go completely dark on an MLCer". Wow, I did for 6 months! Am I confused now? To say the least!
Me 56 H 47 Married 21 years No children Bomb & moved out 4/07 "My feelings have changed" & "I want to live by myself". Ow Bomb 8/07 H filed 6/08 D final 2/05/10
This is the quandery I have. I am DR'ing and doing everything to try and be a better father, which is the most important thing in my situation. My main objective is to do the above and detach from my wife as best as I possibly can. I want to re-start my relationship with my stbxw but at this stage I have to let her go, this is why I asked gucciloafer to offer his advice on 'dropping the rope'.
Gucci has kindly looked at my sitch to ascertain what is required. Even though there probably is OM involved at this stage, this is not a dealbreaker for me at this stage, therefore I am looking for the best advice in dropping the rope whilst attempting to re-build a relationship. If I was looking to kill the relationship stone dead I assume there would be a different strategy.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
I think I've come to agree with the tough love approach. B/c I couldn't respect myself much when I was such a wussy after the bomb. Plus, I do think a lot of our WAS are addicted to the OP. And I know when you have addicts, they usually recommend tough love. If you're S is an alcoholic you don't just say, oh, it was my fault you drank, keep drinking as long as you won't leave me... And about going completely dark. Well, for one thing I think that's almost impossible anyway. I've tried to but with court stuff and having kids I wind up being in contact with him almost every day, though I do try to limit to emails re: the kids. And I mean my kids talk about H frequently too, tell me stories about him, I don't encourage them at all, but just let them talk. I'm sure they do the same about me. So going absolutely dark prob. won't happen in most cases anyway.
(I believe they are WRONG)....
And about going completely dark. Well, for one thing I think that's almost impossible anyway. I've tried to but with court stuff and having kids I wind up being in contact with him almost every day, though I do try to limit to emails re: the kids. And I mean my kids talk about H frequently too, tell me stories about him, I don't encourage them at all, but just let them talk. I'm sure they do the same about me. So going absolutely dark prob. won't happen in most cases anyway.