True Love or True Fog? Part III - CONTACT

[Silver Fox]

New thread, the saga continues.

H came over today like he has been every other week or so to fill/clean his salt water aquarium while I'm at work. Only guess what? I'm at home - I see him hesitate in the driveway for maybe 5 seconds then he knocks on the door. This is the first time we've seen or talked to each other since August.

H - Well, this was completely unexpected. Why are you home?
Me - Spring Break!
H - Oh yeah, how stupid of me. Do you want to talk?

And so it begins. Thank goodness for DB'ing. I was quiet and listened and didn't interrupt. He went off on how "unfair" last week's mediation was and how "I humiliated him with the pictures of the house. I didn't know we would be in separate rooms, my L thought your L and the mediator were sleazy, the whole process was pointless, my job ends in 4 weeks, I can't possibly pay the alimony you asked for, I might have to declare bankruptcy, I know this is all my fault but we need to work on this together, blah, blah, blah".

He must have ranted for at least 10 minutes. Then he said "well, the grass needs cutting, may I?" By all means!
So he blows off some more steam in the front yard - gives me a chance at least to get my wits about me. When he comes back in I finally speak: "CONSEQUENCES - what? CONSEQUENCES - Everything that's happening are the consequences of your CHOICES (thank you Puppy). I've had no choice in this matter at all."

Of course he responded defensively - he knows he's responsible and he thinks I have all the power now - but we have the immediate problem of what to do with our debt and the house and "can't we talk about a plan without the Ls involved?"

Our house is one big, unfinished project that he left when he walked out on me 2 years ago to be with OW (aka Catbitch - she has 12 of them). He tiptoed around this white elephant today until I mentioned that his priorities were still screwed up - that all this is about his #1 priority (Catbitch) and until he recognizes this nothing else matters (his decision to be with her is why he's leaving his job, why he's spent every weekend with her (400 miles away), and why he's had "no time" to work on the house). I purposely did not say "she" or "her" or "your relationship with (OW's name) - just kept referring to his "1st priority and shouldn't your first priority move to 2nd or even 3rd behind finding a job and dealing with OUR house?"

Was this wrong? Was this bad DB'ing? I have no idea at this point. All I know is he would steer it away back to the "immediate" problem - the house. So now he as some genius idea to rent it so I can move closer to my job or would I consider other proposals that he comes up with? All I could say was I would not agree to anything but I would look at it - write it down for me and my L.

Gawd, I'm emotionally spent now.

[AliSuddenly]

You know silver... you keep fighting him.. but is that the way to win someone back?

If you love them.. open the window and let them go. If its meant to be, they will come back.

I know you are devastated, hurt and angry.. but the more you try and cling to something, the more it wants to get away. Its been 2 years afterall. It feels a bit like a 'stalemate' ?

I read your stubborn stance and the fight and the inflexibility and I dont know if its good DBing, or not, but if I were him? Honeslty.. it wouldnt make me want to come back, it would make me feel controlled, resentful and more determined to go my own way, EVEN IF, it wasnt really making me happy. Its human nature.

I'm just saying.. you sure you are happy with this stance? And he did ask you if you two could talk and yuo continue to stonewall him and put up a wall of defiance and demand the L handle it.. so how is he ever supposed to show you how he really feels if you wont allow him to???

Sorry if this doesnt help.. I read along and I dont see something here that is working, yet.. and its been 2 years like I said. Do yu have a Db coach? What would they say ?

I am not surprised yuo are upset.. it must have been hard to see him after so long and for him to rant at you too.. not nice is it ! You are holding together well though, and good for you.
Al xxx

[pearlharbr]

(((Silver)))

Ack, what an ass. I totally disagree with AliSuddenly. I don't see your actions as clinging desperately, just standing up for yourself and taking care of your financial needs and future. Good for you!

He needs to step up and deal with the consequences of his actions. He continually tries to play the martyr with the job loss and potential bankruptcy when he knows damn well it is all his own doing. There is no way you should pity him for this. He has shown no initiative in coming up with a fair alternative, he is only interested in you cutting him slack. The house and divorce settlement are legal/business matters and you should leave it up to the lawyers.

I do think focusing on OW is a cheeseless tunnel. Leave her out of it. I know it's difficult but if he is not willing to give her up there is nothing you can do about it. Focus on mentally detaching. I know you haven't had contact in months but if you're still hung up on Catbitch then you're not really detached.

No, you don't deserve to go through this. It sucks. Go back to the basics. Spend time on GAL activities and make plans for your fabulous future.

[Silver Fox]

Oy vey, Ali and Pearl,

I agree with both of you! How is that possible? Maybe that's why to this day I'm still so conflicted.

I just know H crossed a major boundary today and I don't feel good about it, but I had to hear him out to see where his head is at. And apparently it's still up the OW's a$$.

You're right Pearl - I haven't detached from Catbitch. I'll work on it!

So, do I put my foot down and refuse any other talks without Ls or do I try again to open the lines of communication, listen, validate, show him I'm happy and moving on - see if I can ignite any sparks at all?

[Tawnya]

{{{{Silver}}}}} Ugh..hate that you had to deal with that JUNK..I suppose it's good in a way to have SOME sort of dealings after all of this time, tho sounds like he was pretty much jerky..and I'm sure you weren't quite sure how to deal with him either!!

This seems to be my usual advice for anyone lately, but take a day or two before you decide how best to proceed?! Give yourself a little bit to get out of the "emotion" of the meeting and see how you feel in a day or so and see if you don't know how you want to go forward

Hugs to you!

Tawnya

[AliSuddenly]

Hey guys, I no way implied that silver was 'clinging and desparate', nor did I use language like that..I was more saying, I am not sure stonewalling him (emotionally) is the way to DB someone/win them back.

There are ways of being assertive and clear to handle the business side of things and protecting yourself financially, without that excluding the ability to allow him to talk to you. He has asked several times.. so yes silver, in answer to your question... open up the lines of communication, let him have his 1:1 with yuo, away from the L's, listen, validate, show him you are moving forwards (not necessarily on)and that you are coping and NOT a devastated human being.. this is what Jody, the DB coach advised me...

and afterall Silver.. what have you got to lose??

Al xxx

[AliSuddenly]

Apologies to the above poster! I see that I was talking about the theory that the more you try and cling onto something, grasp on, human nature makes us want to break free. But hey Silver, that doesnt equate to you being clingy.. in fact, you have been the very opposite of that ! Some posters do struggle with the NC and not initiating, but you have been a model DBer in that respect. So I do think it could be time, as the DB model says to "try something different".. and just monitor the results.

Jody also said to me that DBers often stick to the Last Resort Technique (NC, no initiating, going dark etc, as you have done) as a comfort blanket.. they feel safer, more in control.. but at some point (and especially if its not 'working') there comes a time to try something different and step out of that comfort zone and take a risk.. She said all the techniques are just that, techniques, and after giving something a good shot (and the LRT can take longer) then its time to try a different technique. I feel you gave it a good shot at giving him plenty of space and time to miss you and he has responded by asking to talk to you (at Christamas when he left that note.. and again recently).. so maybe its time to try a little listening and validating, why not ?

[Silver Fox]

Well I had a very emotional delayed reaction to H's visit yesterday. I woke up crying, stayed in bed and cried for about 20 more minutes - then decided WTF, this will be my Day of Woe or Day of Whoa - either way, might as well get it all out. So I stayed in my pajamas(still have them on), went through a box of kleenex, no ice cream but finished off half a bag of Dove chocolates, walked around from room to room like a zombie, sat on the floor with my back against the bed and cried more and more. Really, you would have thought the bomb had just been dropped.

And I'm much better now. Funny how you bounce back a little more quickly each time. It's been months since I had this kind of day. Fortunately I'm off this week and can use tomorrow to recover before I go out with friends Saturday night.

Thank you Ali. No need to apologize. This is a wake up call:

Jody also said to me that DBers often stick to the Last Resort Technique (NC, no initiating, going dark etc, as you have done) as a comfort blanket.. they feel safer, more in control.. but at some point (and especially if its not 'working') there comes a time to try something different and step out of that comfort zone and take a risk..

And thanks Tawnya: I always take a few days before my next plan of action and boy do I need a new plan.

[pearlharbr]

Silver, I wish I was there to hug you in person. I know on my rare days of woe (or whoa) it would have been so great to have someone physically with me.

I'm glad you let it out and realized it's easier to bounce back each time.

I do understand sticking with LRT as a comfort blanket. I think that's exactly what I'm doing with xBF because if I just let down my guard I'm afraid he will hurt me all over again. So think about reopening the lines of communication. I would just caution you to not take everything he says at face value. Remember, "don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do" applies to the things we want to hear as well as the things we don't want to hear. Actions are what you're looking for.

Think about it, let it sit, have fun with your friends on Sat.

[Tawnya]

{{{Silver}}}} I like that you just took the time to "deal" and be..and I had a stay home in my pj's day last week..love those anyway I wish I could hug you like Pearl said too..we could have all eaten all that together!!

Tawnya