Maybe I should be in piecing part 6?

[Sara]

Whew! It's great to see someone stand up and say, "It's my life. I will make my own decisions." Hooray for you! Yes, there is no harm in being nice and being patient. I find these boards so strange. Some people are being urged to just be kind and patient, while others are urged to make a stand and be firm. And in some cases, maybe one or the other will work. And honestly, in most cases, nothing we do changes it at all. Que sera, sera. But still, choosing to make your own decisions....that's bound to piss some people off.

[Hope4us]

Thank you Sara. I don't know if you've ever posted to me before, but I appreciate the comments.

You know what I find funny. On the Infidelity board, it's a lot of "take a stand, be firm, confront" and on the Newcomers board where there are a lot of infidelity sitch's, it's "be kind and patient". On the WAS board (often with infidelity involved), it's "you can't control what they're going to do and they need to figure it out on their own so be kind and patient".

Just an observation.

[Sara]

Thank you for that observation. I don't sort by boards, so I never realized there were themes.

[Snow White]

Hi again,

I for the record agree that you should do whatever is best for you. I often tried to follow the board but because it wasn't in me to completly "comply" I would revert half way through and I was a constant flip-flop. At least if you are true to yourself it is consistent.

My only question in my post to you was your motivation. It appears you have a quite detailed explanation for it. We all draw on our personal experiences so I guess that is what I was looking at I constantly wondered(and wondering is worse than knowing)but the simple things like asking my H's parents if he was staying there or not never happened. And they didn't happen because I was afraid to know the answer and afraid to be embarassed in front of them again being played for the fool.

As far as the trip. I agree with going if its something you want to do. Again with me, I found I did a lot of things that I wanted to do, for me,(at least that is how I rationalized it) including ML, golf outings, making big family dinners (remember my h was not at home)and at the time I thought they were for me but when I found out concretely that he was still with OW that whole time each of those things became a bitter pill of resentment and made me feel used. If you remember I went with my H to Disney, our place, the only place we ever vacationed together and he was in contact with IOW the whole time. I am not sure whether I will ever be able to go there again.

As far as the differences on the boards it may be the length of time that you have been in this situation with your W that causes people to take a firmer stance. Or it may be the length of times that you are on these boards and that people are now your friends instead of anonymous posters and we all know how friends and family in real life deal with things when they see thier friends in pain. I would take it as a compliment that people have gotten upset, its because they care about you.

[Hope4us]

Thanks Snow.

I know what you mean about Disney. That's where we're going. It's OUR place. And in the fall of 2007 when we went, W was sneaking off to contact OM all she could. She even was laying on the couch in our room TM'ing him while I was laying in the bed next to the couch.

But I will NOT ALLOW him and how she was wreck Disney for me. I love the place and so does W. Since that trip, and another one a few months later when we took the kids and she was doing the same thing (but after I exposed to OMW), we have been there a couple of times and I feel like I've reclaimed Disney for me/us.

Will I feel like a fool if she's still in contact with him and is playing me? I guess somewhat. But since I feel like she is still in contact with him, it won't surprise me if when the time comes I find out. I know I can look myself in the mirror in the mornings.

I'm sure you're correct in the people replying to me have been with me a long time and they're frustrated in my sitch. It makes me feel so cared for and so happy to know that people whom I've never met think so much of me and my sitch that they will 2x4 me when they see fit. And I'm ok with it. Really.

But I just need to do this for me. Like S16 said to me a week ago, "One last grasp huh?" And he's right.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

So if I ask her what's going on and she lies, what are my options? Am I going to cause a huge conflict in our home based on what I THINK is going on? That I have trouble with.

It seems to me that this is ALREADY what you're doing, but by not confronting her, you are bearing the entire brunt of that conflict in your own mind, heart and soul. At some point, I don't think that's healthy.

But you're right -- it's your call.

Puppy

[whatdidido]

Things people have said so far is all good advice and they all speak truth. That's what is so great....you can come on here and get some good advice, look at your situation and your own personal knowledge, and then make a good decision.

We all use our own situations, and what we learned, to help others. We all have on our own colored glasses we see things through. You know mine. I think there has been contact. Remember, I had contact, a few times actually... Did that mean that I wanted to leave my marriage? Nope. It was something I had to work through. You want your wife to WANT to be with you, not feel forced to be with you. Of course she is making it hard on herself when she makes contact, or when the OM contacts her. But, perhaps, it needs to be done. Remember in my situation how the OM contacted me, and the feelings it brought up. It messed with my head. I also chose to not tell my H. In my situation it is different because my H would understand why. I believe, in yours, your W knows you would want to know immediately, etc. Yet, she may see how things are going forward with you, and she doesn't want to ruin it.

The thing I worry about you, with not confronting, is that if you ever DO find out she contacted him or he contacted her, you will leave her then and there. Are you serious when you incinuate that? I mean, I get the whole "taking a stand" thing, but if she was working through things, and figured things out, and is making a choice to be with you, would you really throw her away if she contacted him?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

We all use our own situations, and what we learned, to help others. We all have on our own colored glasses we see things through. You know mine. I think there has been contact. Remember, I had contact, a few times actually... Did that mean that I wanted to leave my marriage? Nope. It was something I had to work through. You want your wife to WANT to be with you, not feel forced to be with you. Of course she is making it hard on herself when she makes contact, or when the OM contacts her. But, perhaps, it needs to be done.

WDID,

You know I like and respect you, and you obviously come at this from a much different perspective than I do. But please explain this for me. I'm having a hard time understanding why any spouse would "need" to have contact with someone with whom they have already had an affair, the relationship and deceit from which almost destroyed their marriage and ripped apart their family.

Personally, I don't think there is ANY valid reason for a wayward spouse to contact their former affair partner, even to say "I can't see you anymore -- ever." That can be done in a letter.

H4U's wife is either wayward or formerly wayward. Even with a formerly wayward spouse, I can fully understand their need to "work out" things emotionally, mentally and spiritually . . . internally, on their own. I do not accept that they need to be in contact to do this, I'm sorry. In fact, I would contend strongly that it causes further damage to the marriage, and sets back the recovery process.

Puppy

[whatdidido]

Don't be sorry. Need was the wrong word. We all make choices, good and bad. Maybe she made a bad choice, but maybe it helped her see even more clearly.

[Hope4us]

We all use our own situations, and what we learned, to help others. We all have on our own colored glasses we see things through. You know mine. I think there has been contact. Remember, I had contact, a few times actually... Did that mean that I wanted to leave my marriage? Nope. It was something I had to work through. You want your wife to WANT to be with you, not feel forced to be with you. Of course she is making it hard on herself when she makes contact, or when the OM contacts her. But, perhaps, it needs to be done. Remember in my situation how the OM contacted me, and the feelings it brought up. It messed with my head. I also chose to not tell my H. In my situation it is different because my H would understand why. I believe, in yours, your W knows you would want to know immediately, etc. Yet, she may see how things are going forward with you, and she doesn't want to ruin it.

The thing I worry about you, with not confronting, is that if you ever DO find out she contacted him or he contacted her, you will leave her then and there. Are you serious when you incinuate that? I mean, I get the whole "taking a stand" thing, but if she was working through things, and figured things out, and is making a choice to be with you, would you really throw her away if she contacted him?

I understand this WDID. I understand it from you, I understand it from Sandi, I understand it from my friend D. You've all told me that the draw is so hard. My friend D told me it took a long time before she quit opening her email hoping OM had sent her a note. Even AFTER she KNEW she was going to stay with her H.

I've really spent a lot of time thinking about this. And for us men, it's a simple thing. Like Puppy mentioned. Just don't do it. But I understand it's different for women. Probably why marriages where there is a romantic/EA/PA type A that the odds of recovering are slim.

I do see her progressing. I do see her trying in her own way. Would it be easier if she went completely NC (if there is contact going on)? Of course. Would it be easier if EGF wasn't supporting her in her A? Of course.

Do I think she would cave if I gave her an ultimatum? Maybe, maybe not. Will we have a better chance of having the type of marriage we BOTH want if I let her get through this on her own? I think so. And if we don't make it in the end, it won't be because I'm PRESSURING her. If we end up separating and she comes back, it will be because SHE wants to.

I don't want her back if she feels like it's her only option. I don't want her back if I'm the back up plan. And the only way I feel we will be together with BOTH of us wanting it, is if she figures it out on her own.

I've related many, many times how stubborn and strong willed she is. It's one of the things I love about her. But just think how wonderful our marriage will be if SHE decides she wants it to work.

If that never happens, ok, because I don't want to be married to her if she hasn't made the decision to be with me. And if some contact (like you said WDID) is a necessary evil, then so be it.

Again, I'm not waiting forever. And if that time comes for the transfer and she then de-fogs completely, I'll kick myself for not doing it sooner. But if not, then it'll be time for me to move on knowing I gave it everything I could.

The thing with my W is, I KNOW she loves the attention. That's one of her LL's. So my making the effort to plan trips and love her even with the way she's treated me WILL have an affect on her. I already see it. And I think that's where her struggle is. And I think when she feels herself connecting with me, she feels the need to contact OM to rationalize in her mind that the A was justified. But the more and more we connect, it has to make OM less and less attractive.

Maybe that's what the two really down days were all about. She contacted him and it wasn't what she wanted or was seeking in that contact. If that's the case, then me confronting her will only cause that wall to go up even further.

And WDID. You could be very right. I might not want to know if she's contacted him because I probably would explode and end our marriage. If I don't know or act as if, then we've still got a chance.