I am gonna word dump a short synopsis of my scenario. Over the next few days, I'll fill in the remainder of my sad divorce tale.
I had an affair in the fall of 2005. XW was told about it by her brother who was told by their mother. Yes, I made many bad choices in making the affair mistake. As anyone who has an affair will probably tell you, there were reasons (translation: excuses) why I had my affair. After XW find out, she told me to move out and I did.
I began seeing a counselor, and I told her that the affair wasn't meant to end my marriage; I didn't want a divorce. After listening a few times, she told me that you may not have wanted a divorce, but your marriage was very troubled and although you didn't consciously want to end your marriage, perhaps your subconscious took all of your upset and turmoil that you were having difficulty dealing with and helped you to 'do something' you didn't have the guts and/or confidence to to consciously.
...I don't know if that's true, but it sounds reasonable. I was hopeful that we would be able to reconcile and make our marriage what I envisioned when we said, "I do." But I have read so much informaton about marriage and about being a better man than I was, and the one thing that stuck out in my mind came from TORN ASUNDER, which is a Christian book about affairs and reconciliation of marriages. In that book, the authors said that reconciliation was much more likely IF the couple had some solid ground to stand on, as in a loving, solid marriage BEFORE the affair, so that the couple would have that time as a marital strenght and solid footing. Sadly, our marriage was trouble for much of the time.
As for myself, I have spent a great deal of time reading and learning about manhood and working on personal growth. Additionally, I have become a member of my church and belong to both the ushering team and I lead my daughter's Sunday school group of 3rd graders. BTW, I also have a 3-year old son.
Through the time that we have been apart, XW has taken to verbally peppering me and being difficult. I have read that being the S who was cheated on, the feelings can be likened to being even worse than losing a dear loved one. Based on watching XW, for the most part, she hasn't seemed interested in healing. Instead, she has mostly run from 1 boyfriend to the next so that she can stay busy and not have to process the affair in her mind and give herself the relief of forgiving me. I have the distinct impression that she thinks forgiving means forgetting.
Interestingly, she just stopped seeing a counselor after a year. She told me,"I don't need to see her anymore. I no longer seek my sense of self-worth from men." I just looked at her incredulously and said, "Oh really, your're healed?" She made a face at me, but won't lie to her any more. If she tells me BS stuff, I will call her on it. I refuse to be one more person in her life who pats her on the butt and tells her she is doing OK, when she's clearly continuing to make bad choices.
Now, after all of that back ground (more to come), through all of it, I still love her very intensely and very deeply. Pretty much all of my family and friends will think I'm nuts for holding on to my dream of reconciling after all we've put each other though, but as I told my best friend, "Yes, I would love to reconcile with her. I am changing, she would need to change, and because of those personal changes in both of us, our marriage would change and it be worked on productively. We would be our marriage FIRST, and we would still diligently care for our own individual needs within the confines of a happy, healthy, nurturing marriage.
I would be very wary about getting back into a relationship after all the she has done to me since we split, which sounds strange being that I am the one who cheater on her, but she has done plenty to me since finding out and THAT has been ver hurtful. Most of my loved ones, including HER family, wonder why I have continued to look after her, especially in light of how badly she's treated me. I simply say, "Because I care."
Now to the issue that I need help with. Over the past couple of months, in between her 'flavors-of-the-month' XW has behaved much more nicely.The past few times that I have gone by her house, she always asks me if I can stay. Today, she touched me repeatedly while I was there and helping her in the garage. Her brother was telling me that XW really enjoys having me over the house, but she is too stubborn to say anything about it. And lastly, I don't initiate touching her. I don't flirt with her. Perhaps, because I don't behave like her herd of "good (male) friends" and I don't fawn over her and fall all over her like the dorks they are, she is seeing me in a different light? Perhaps?
1. Should I be 'conveniently' busy when she asks me to hang around? 2. What should I make of her repeatedly touching me today? THAT is very unlike her. She is NOT someone who initiates touching, especially me. 3 I have taken to not really saying too much to XW's brother. I will listen to him, but not say much? Am I handling this properly? 4. Should I simply chalk up the nice interaction we had today, touching included, to simply having a nice time with her, without drama and upset? Over the time that we have been separated/divorced, I have had to NOT read too much into our interactions, whether positive or negatve. I simply chalk the interactin up to exactly what it was, a nice interaction or a crappy interaction, without trying to guess why she behaves the way she does.
Lastly, I am sure that others have had a much rougher path to reconciling, but I want to know what all of my brothers and sisters here think about my scenario and I would also greatly appreciate any encouragement you all can offer as I stand firm in my quest to reconcile my marriage and win my family back.
Thank you for readng. My following posts won't be as long, at least I don't think so....
Tom
Letting Go Tom; JUST DO IT! previously hopeful_husband
my A: Fall 05 W found out: Feb 06; separated immediately W pursued D, final 7/11/07
Stay hopeful, I think there is hope in your situation. That said, most people are going to think you are nuts for fighting for your marriage/reconciliation. However, you are not. I think it is honorable for you to be on a quest to reconcile your marriage and win your family back. That said, this journey is going to be rough and at times things are going to look nebulous. But you seem determine to do what is necessary to make things right.
I might be wrong, but it sounds like your wife might still be hurt about what you did and is still trying to heal. Her being difficult is mostly likely her just trying to protect herself and her way of expressing that she is anger and hurt of what has happened. However, when she is being difficult, that is a great opportunity to demonstrate your character, your ability to listen and validate, etc. Could you elaborate more on how she is verbally peppering you? If she can see you keep your cool and showing understanding when she is being rough, that will speak volumes, every though she might not say anything, she will notice.
I will try to get to your questions later as it is really late here in Boston right now. If you haven't read divorce busting, I would pick up that book. Also, I would read other people's story on this forum. The more information you have, the better prepared you will be. I see a lot of good things in your situation. The mere fact that she invites you over says a lot. The key is for her to see your changes and that those changes are consistent. I will talk to you later.
Thank you for your encouragement. I also believe my endeavor is honorable in working to reconcile my marriage and make my family whole again. I do realize that my mission will be tough and my my path will be unsure, but the end result that I am striving for is all worth it.
It's nice to actually hear from someone who believes that HOPE does exist in my sitch. I might have 1 or 2 friends, perhaps 1 brother, and HER family who would be happy if we were able to reconcile marriage. You see, in all of my discussions with my friends and family, I have never embellished the story, I have simply narrated the story of my life and XW is simply a central character. XW and her behavior are her own worst enemies in being accepted by my family and friends.
I remember seeing a counselor and relating the goings on to her and I kept saying, "She's not a bad person." The counselor told me to STOP saying that and asked me if I made anything up that I had related to her. Since I had not, she said this time isn't your time to defend her bad behavior towards you; it's your time to heal. That stuck with me that it's OK for me to see events clearly, and to relate those events to others without embellishments or exaggerations, but simply as a way to process and heal from hurts. Of course, I really wasn't ready to heal at that point; too busy beating myself up for my mistake.
You are absolutely correct regarding XW's unresolved hurt feelings. She keeps insisting that she has forgiven me, but she keeps lashing out, especially when she's been drinking. The other thing she kept doing is jumping from one boyfriend (affectionately termed DHs by me) to another to help her keep herself busy and focused on doing, rather than thinking, feeling, and healing. Right now, she is without a DH.
I believe she is trying to protect herself. Throughout our entire marriage, her mantra was, "I need to relax. I'm going out." I would tell her that I was perplexed by her 'need' to go out and relax and I told her that I relaxed by being with my family; my wife and my children. She didn't get it. I think she's starting to 'get it' now.
As far as XW peppering me, that has run the gamut of:
(1)XW drunk and yelling at me and our ex-neighbor about having an affair. This neighbor is married and we have never even remotely approached the topic of having an affair. I like her. I like her husband. I adore their kids. (2)I try to control her and who she dates. This does NOT happen. I couldn't 'control' her while we were married and I know I certainly cannot control her (or even attempt to) in divorce. I simply look after my children and ensure they are safe. (3) There are many more, and generally come in the form of a profanity-laced tirade, but for now I'll move forward.
I have learned to stay in control of myself when she is on a rant. I simply step back emotionally, stay calm, and make even, rational observations and responses about her and the situation. THAT drives her nuts. My counselor told me that that is because XW is used to triggering fights with me with certain behaviors and I have mucked up the exchange by refusing to play 'my part.' XW has told people recently that I am "calm ... eerily calm." Strange. Different, but strange nonetheless. I have shown her my calm, strong, decisive, rationale side and she seems to be warming up to it. She's definitely noticed that I am working on being different permanently. Additionally, when I refuse to engage her in nastiness, I am easily able to show compassion and understanding.
Yesterday afternoon I spent time with our children (her day), and I pulled out the majority of her Xmas stuff. I put lights on the tree and helped put up the ornaments. She continued touching me. Again, initiating touching has never been a strong suit of hers towards me and I ,of course, make nothing of it. At the end of the day, I told her I was going to leave and she asked me to stick around to be with her. VERY out of character with regard to me. I did, but she quickly began falling asleep and I nudged her to tell her that she was falling asleep and I was going to to ahead and go.
Today, I was holding our son and XW wanted a kiss from him. He refused, as 3-year olds sometimes do. I'm playfully leaning away from XW, pretending that my being THAT close to her was uncomfortable. XW then leans over to give/get a kiss from me. I did oblige this time, reading nothing into it...at least not discernibly to her anyway.
My reading about affairs and the emotions of being the spouse who was cheated on, says that the emotional trauma is worse than losing a loved one to death. I know that my affair was wrong then, is wrong today and would be wrong tomorrow. I truly do believe that despite her unwillingness (inability?) to show me that she loved me as her HUSBAND, and her belief that she really didn't love me as she should love her husband, she has come to find out that she really did love me much more than she thought she did.
I think that XW believed that losing me and losing my love and devotion for her was really not going to be a big deal. XW seemed to focus on how quickly she could replace me, and apparently she believed I could be easily replaced in her life. I have 'spent time' with a couple of women during our time apart, but I am always upfront and honest with any woman I 'spend time' with. I make it clear to them and XW knows that we are not in an exclusive, committed relationship with anyone other than my children, although my chasing relationships has been almost non-existent. I want my wife back. I want my famiy unit all together. I want my children to be from a 'whole' home, not a broken one.
I have been working diligently to make my children's lives as whole as I can in the midst of a less-than-ideal situation that they did not create. I've done pretty well so far. I am working to turn the post, and bring it home coming down the stretch. She's warming up to me. I simply need to continue improving who I am and continue working to trigger her attraction for me. Slow, steady, strong, calm, and sure. Without allowing my hopes to get out of control, I will continue working on reconciling my M. I will keep my expectations in check. I will continue to hold the door open for her return.
Tom
p.s. I have both of Michelle's books.
Letting Go Tom; JUST DO IT! previously hopeful_husband
my A: Fall 05 W found out: Feb 06; separated immediately W pursued D, final 7/11/07
I will try to answer your questions the best I can. I am also in the process of trying to reconcile with my wife who also divorced me about 5-6 months ago. I am still learning and still unclear at times, but that is just apart of the journey I guess.
Quote:
1. Should I be 'conveniently' busy when she asks me to hang around?
I think the key here is not to appear being needy and selfish to get your own emotional needs met. In your situation, it appears that she is doing most of the requests to hang around - so I think you are okay here. I think it is good to appear busy at times, even if you are not, just so she can see that you are your own person. It is attractive to women I think when a man can be confident and independent - that you have a life. That said, I would take advantage of most opportunities to spend time with her wife/children. In my situation, I normally do not refuse most requests my wife makes to do things together. However, I normally let her take the lead in that, rather than make requests myself. I also do little things like let the phone ring a couple of times before I pick up or if she asks me what I'm doing, I sometimes pretend I'm doing something interesting rather than just doing something boring like watching TV (although I might be doing just that).
Quote:
2. What should I make of her repeatedly touching me today? THAT is very unlike her. She is NOT someone who initiates touching, especially me.
I wouldn't make much of it at this point. I would simply thank God for the nice interaction and use that as a motivator to keep fighting for your marriage. You don't want to rush to conclusions too fast or try to guess what your wife is feeling/thinking. Women are like the waves of the ocean when it comes to this reconciliation process. Sometimes it will seem like you are making real strides and other times it will appear that all is lost. The key is for you to keep doing what's working and to take it day by day. Whenever you are feeling down, use those nice interactions as a reminder that you are making progress and that it is worth the effort.
Quote:
3 I have taken to not really saying too much to XW's brother. I will listen to him, but not say much? Am I handling this properly?
This is a tricky one. It really depends on how close the two of you really are. Personally, I think it is best to play it safe and not mention anything about how you want to reconcile with your wife. You never know if he will tell your wife. I would hate for your wife to think that you are being selfish and trying to use her brother to bring you two back together. In the end, actions speak louder than words. Her family/brother is going to know that you want to get back together simply by the way you are treating your wife - so you probably don't have to tell them anything for them to know that. If the brother ever brings up the conversation about how you feel about getting back together, I would probably say something among the lines that you just want her to be happy. Again, this is a judgment call.
It also seems like your wife has some changing to do with her drinking and verbal abuse. However, for now the best you can do is to continue to work on yourself and love her unconditionally. For the time being, if she starts to verbal attack you, I would simply try to empathize and validate her feelings. It sounds like she has been trying to numb the pain with distractions and can only hold so much inside before she explodes. Give it time, I think those interactions will become less and less. While her method for expressing that angry/hurt might be wrong, she needs to know that it is okay for her to be anger/hurt about the situation and that you are willing do whatever it takes to see her healed. It only takes one person to get the ball moving in a relationship - so I think you are doing great.
I think it is great that your brother thinks your wife enjoys having you around. Most of the time, when progress is being made the other spouse is not going to say anything about it no matter how happy they are with the changes. It is going to take time for trust to build up again, but I think you got a real good shot here. I wish I could offer more advice, but I am still trying to figure out my situation. I wish you the best of luck.
PS - I think the longer and more detail the post, the better it is for us men to relate and for other women to offer some insight
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my sitch, as we are both men and our situations are somewhat similar.
What is probably obvious is that I have always loved my wife despite what I did and despite my hurt feelings from her treatment of me in the aftermath. I have never stopped loving her; made a horrible mistake trying to heal my own hurt feelings ad bruised ego with an affair, but as I told my counselor, I wasn't trying to end my marriage, as stupid, selfish, and short-sighted though that may sound. Since we split, my primary adult relationship focus has been on reconciling with her.
1. Thank you for reminding me that I need to be very mindful to NOT appearing 'needy' when I interact with XW.
XW has definitely been the one initiating pretty much all of our being physically together (in the same location) under the guise of missing our children when they are with me. THAT has been going on for 2-1/2 years. I always oblige and welcome her into my space and into my time with our children. My thoughts have always been, no matter the differences XW and I have, life will be best for our children with ready access to 2 loving parents.
2. I agree with you on the whole touching topic. As I have previously posted, I chalk up both the nice and the not-so-nice interactions with her as EXACTLY what they are, no more, no less. Keeping that perspective keeps me sane and out of the always killer trap of placing expectations on her.
Last night, I went to XW's mother's house to help her with her Xmas tree (She asked for my assistance the previous evening). When I got there, it became very clear to me that XW's mother had concocted a reason for me and my children to come over, because the Xmas decorating process had already gotten underway, with decent progress, and when I asked my XMiL about bringing down the remainder of the decorations from the attic, she just shook her head and told me to sit down and relax and not to worry about it. XW was present and our interaction was nice. Oh yeah, BTW, she gave me a quick squeeze on my backside!
3.My ex-BiL and I are not close. I like him and I think he's really nice, and he does give me an alternate perspective on his sister, but that's usually things I already know about her like, "She's the most stubborn person I know." On occasion, he will tell me things that are welcomed and nice that I did not 'kknow' like, that XW really enjoys having me around with our children, but it is her stubbornness that prevents her from opening up and saying something to me. I do know that ANYTHING I say to him about her WILL get repeated back to her and it, invariably, will end up being twisted negatively, either by XW herself or the person who repeated the story to her. Always an ugly event, trust me. I am generally best served by keeping XW's name and anything about her to the absolute minimum; preferably keeping it to NOTHING, if possible. I also don't want to throw XBiL "under the bus" with his sister. Always caution. XW is always defensive and believes that others have a conspiracy against her.
XW does need to get control of her 'wild' side. She is 34 years old. She's NOT a kid. She does lose her temper when she drinks and, when drinking, she also regularly shows poor 'good' decision making capability, so yes, I do have concerns for her. I didn't have a lot of the concerns that I have now because, generally I was with her and able to save her from herself while we were married.
I want to help her, but I know that THAT cannot be the foundation upon which our reconciled relationship is built. We both need to be happy, healthy, and whole individually, so that we that together we have the opportunity to synergize both our love and our energy.
NOTES: About 5 weeks ago, XW began asking me questions about DH#4. I simply told her, "Look, I haven't offered you any thoughts about DH#4 and you haven't asked me my thoughts about him 'til now. Let's just leave it at that. Besides, you two have been dating about, what...two months?"
She said yes. I continued, "I am very confident that you will figure out WHO DH#4 IS and what he is like soon enough." She nodded yes. I said, "Well, with that being the case, you'll be done with him within about four months, but probably more likely three." She said, "How do you know that?" I told her, "Because I have been watching you for 3 years now, plus I am also very familiar with your 'dating' pattern prior to our getting involved with one another." I continued, "And lastly, since I know I am right about your R with DH#4 ending soon, I don't want to take on the role of 'HIM' in your likely 'US' against 'HIM' drama should I choose to indulge your curiosity. End of story."
NOTE: She broke it off with DH#4 in one week, not 3. Perhaps she just wanted to show me that I don't know her so well. ;-) Who knows?
About 1 month ago, XW related her dream to me, out of the blue. She said that she had a dream and I was in it. I joked with her, saying that, "Now I feel violated." I smiled at her and winked and she laughed.
XW continued on with her dream story, telling me that, in the dream, I was smiling and laughing when she came upon me and she asked me why I was so happy. (Mind you, at this point she was still dating DH#4 still.) XW then said that (in the dream still)I said, "...because I know that we are going to get back together. We were meant to be together." In response (real life), I said, "Wow, hmmm."
Movement, yes. XW didn't have to relate her dream to me. I try to make it clear to her that I am open to reconciliation, but that I am not needy for her. It's a tough tightrope to walk and I know that everyone's spouse and the troubles in marriages are more similar than dissimilar. I will keep on keepin' on.
I must keep reminding myself that I must not judge my mission to win back my wife and to make my family unified again. I need to hold onto how far I've come in accomplishing my mission from I was three years ago. I have come a long way and I focus on congratulating myself for winning my mini-victories on my way to my ultimate victory in reaching my goals and accomplishing my mission to make amends for my mistakes in life and in my marriage. Patience. Strength and honor. (yes, Gladiator quote)
Thanks for reading.
Tom
Letting Go Tom; JUST DO IT! previously hopeful_husband
my A: Fall 05 W found out: Feb 06; separated immediately W pursued D, final 7/11/07
On Monday evening (at her mom's), XW asked me why I had started buying the children's Xmas presents without her. This is how messed up I am in this whole divorce situation. We had always gone Xmas present shopping together for the children (usually my wish).
Looking back, that was a really irrational feeling because I never considered DH#4 a threat. As a matter-of-fact, my feelings truly have been all along that I am the best match for XW and she is never going to find someone to love her the way that I love her nor to take care of her the way that I take care of her; very similar to her dream about me that she recently related to me.
This year, despite the fact that, even while separated and subsequently divorced, we had continued our Xmas shopping together. But this year, even after DH#4, I was feeling like a whiny, hurt baby and feeling very sorry for myself. I WAS WAITING FOR HER TO ASK ME!!! Uhhh, I had never waited for that prior to this year. I couldn't undo what I'd already done shopping-wise, but we will finish up the shopping together and present the presents as a unit, like we've always done in the past. MY LESSON: ask questions; don't make assumptions.
It has been difficult watching XW's involvement with a string of idiots (I tried to think of a PC term, but no appropriate terms came to mind) whom she had chosen to get involved with and involve our children with (<---my REAL issue!). Mind you, the worst one, #3, was truly a criminal; someone XW knew in HS. Shortly after XW got involved with this piece of work, he went away to jail for 5 months. While he was in jail, XW moved him into her place with my children! XW told me that she and #3 were not serious before he went to jail but they got more serious while he was inside. Nice, huh?
I stayed away as much as possible while DH#3 lived with XW, because I didn't want to have an altercation with #3 and need to rely on XW to be an objective and truthful witness about why I had to dismantle the little troll. To shorten this part of her silliness, 6 weeks was all it took for the 'stuff' to hit the fan on this 'LOVE' fest. His (& her) idiocy led to 2 calls to the sheriff department and 2 additional stints in jail for #3.
Additionally, since I took on the responsibility to 'save' XW from #3 on 4 or 5 occasions things were tense between us. On the last 'saving' of XW, I finally told XW that she CLEARLY didn't want to be saved, since she had let #3 right back into her place and that she should stop calling me. XW called me the very next evening at midnight and asked me what I was doing (LOL)? I was doing laundry and she told me she wanted me to come to her house. When I arrived, 2 sheriff cars were parked out front and I found out that 2 others had just left. One of the deputies on the 2nd call was also on the first call. This deputy told XW he was disgusted that she allowed #3 back in her life after the first call. He also advised her to get a restraining order, which I couldn't get her to do after the first call. Happily, for me anyway, #3 was out of the picture for good at that juncture.
Sadly, XW's involvement with #3 resulted in Child Protective Services (California) alerted to 2 domestic violence calls being made to the sheriff while the children were present. THIS is NOT a good thing, but the file is no longer active after a 4 month investigation.
Tuesday evening, Dec. 9, I received a call from XW asking me to pick up our daughter from school. I said OK and went and took D8 and S3 to her home. When I got there, I tended to the children with her there. As she became involved with getting the children ready for bed, I told her that I was gonna head out.
XW then asked my why? I said, well, I just want to get out of your hair and let you get on with your evening. XW said, maybe you could stay? Maybe you could spend the night? I said, why, do you still need help with the children? She said no, she just thought hanging out with with me would be nice. The children were gonna be in bed. Then, she hit me with, "You can take them to school in the morning." NOT unexpected, but it put somewhat of a damper on a nice interaction. End results: I spent the night with her in her(our!)bed. And NO. Nothing happened. Just sleep. In the morning I got the children ready and took them to school. All-in-all Tuesday was a nice time. I'll safely chalk that up to a nice interaction and won't read anything into it.
Last night (Dec. 10) I received a call from XW asking me to come over and help her with the children. XW asked me to stop and pick her up something to eat and I went over. This time XW went down pretty quickly and slept with our prince of a S3. I tended to our princess of a D8 and got her settled and to sleep. I slept on the LR couch and took our children to school this morning. Again, another nice interaction with my W.
I am still haunted by the memory of my sister asking me, "What do you want? Do you want to be her 2nd husband? Do you want to be the guy she has to do all of her **** work while she shares her bed with someone else?" A harsh but necessary slap of reality that I needed then and still need now. Ugh! All of my friends and family shake their collective heads at me; at what I do; and at how I handle my R with XW. All I can say is that I am the one who is working to win back my wife; working to make his family whole again, because I believe that I am working to accomplish what God wants me to accomplish and that is what I want because I believe that my mission is right. At the same time, I do pray for the the Holy Spirit to help me with a discerning mind, two laser-sharp eyes and 2 keen ears I can use to steer me clear of situations and people that don't work FOR me, but instead work AGAINST me.
I feel I am closer today to reconciling with my wife than I have been at any point in the past 3 years. I can actually finally SEE this as a real possibility of reconciliation. Patience and prayer are my friends. I rely on the Holy Spirit to give me the wisdom to make the correct steps, take the right actions, say the right things.... I also rely on the valuable information in Michelle's books and the invaluable real-time and real-life my brothers and sisters on the board here to give me real-time, real-life personal stories and advice/insight on how best to proceed in my delicate (aren't they all?) situation. One thing that I do know is necessary to assist in making any reconciliation work for us is that we both must continue on our individual paths of real self-improvement and real spiritual growth.
I know I am not perfect, but I do know that I am a much better person, man, father, friend, son, and potential partner than I have been at any point in my life through taking a constant critical look at WHO I am versus WHO I want to be and through my tireless to take steps in that direction, celebrating those small improvements along the way.
I believe XW has seen this, but I definitely hurt her deeply with my affair. For anyone who knows someone else who is contemplating getting out of a marriage, having taken this cowardly path myself, I would say to exhaust all other options like the following unless the M is abusive: (1) come here and get Michelle's books and take advantage of the boards (2) talk to your spouse directly; (3)seek counseling, either thru DB, your church or others secularly; and (4)thousands of 'fix' your marriage books exist, and some are actually gems.
I have come a long way through lots of self work, but knowing how far I've come only makes me aware of how far I still have to grow and go. I am a work in progress, but at least I know I am not a finished product. I hope XW slows down long enough to be able to see that she wants me as her own, despite my mistakes of the past. I hurt her terribly. I hope she is also able to see her contribution to the demise of our marriage over time, as I see mine. We'll see.
In closing, my situation is long and complicated (I know, as they all are). My first few posts have been soooooo looooong, but I've wanted to get the meat of the story out. I will fill in the side dishes as I move forward to fill you all in so that you will have a clear picture from which to assist me in achieving our reconciliation, if you would be so kind.
Thank you all, Tom
Letting Go Tom; JUST DO IT! previously hopeful_husband
my A: Fall 05 W found out: Feb 06; separated immediately W pursued D, final 7/11/07
Strange call last night. I received a call from XW's mom, or XMiL. XMiL told me that she needed a favor and I said, OK...? She continued to ask me what is going on with XW? XW works for XMiL, and has for years. I didn't have anything damaging to tell XMiL so I told her she seemed to be doing fine and that she and I had been doing really well for the past 5-7 days. XMiL told me that vendors were complaining about XW's volatility, plus XW misses more work than XMiL would like. I simply told XMiL that I don't work at her company and I haven't witnessed any volatility with any vendors because I wasn't there to witness these alleged outbursts. XMiL then asks me if I think XW is on drugs (she has a past issue with addiction, another story for another time) and that she is primarily looking our for her grandchildren, our D8 and S3's well-being.
I told her, she doesn't seem to be. Her behavior has been less erratic, especially in the past week, but I am certainly no expert on what drug use looks like, as I have no experience with using drugs or associating with people who do. XMiL then told me what ALL of her family members tell me when we talk, "This conversation did NOT happen," as no one wants to be on XW's 'hit list' for, as she would consider, going against her. Some may feel that my talking with XMiL was wrong, but I do know that XMiL loves XW and wants the best for her. Additionally, I would only tell XMiL if I thought XW was actually on drugs with convincing evidence to that end or if I witnessed drug usage or the effects of having used drugs. Safety for our children first and for her second. One CPS case in their lifetime is plenty. Any advice on a similar approach by XMiL is welcome.
Well, THAT was a long bit of typing to tell you all that XW's mother is looking at her with a raised eyebrow. I don't know what to make of it, but I do care. I know XMiL well enough to know that she has no qualms about throwing XW under the bus to look like the good guy to the vendors, and has done so on a semi-regular basis. Ugh, I care about this because I care about XW and her relationship with her mother, but at the same time I know there is nothing I can do to help the situation except listen to XW word dump about her mother and remind her that she (XW) is NOT the boss at her mom's business. Again, advice is welcome, even if it's to mind my own business.
Have a great evening. Tom
Letting Go Tom; JUST DO IT! previously hopeful_husband
my A: Fall 05 W found out: Feb 06; separated immediately W pursued D, final 7/11/07
Tonight, at 11:23pm (ahh, the beauty of cell phone time stamps!) my phone rang. It was XW calling. She asked me a few inane questions and then got to the point when I told her that yes, I was in fact wide awake. I asked her if everything was OK, because she sounded upset. She said she was, but said she didn't want to stay home. She asked me if she could spend the night. I told her, you know your always welcome.
She showed up about 20 minutes later and our S3 was still awake and acting crazy wired. XW spoke to me for a few minutes after we laid S3 back down, and I asked her again, "Why did you want to come over here?" She said everything is fine and she just wanted to be with her family (without making it a point to exclude me). I don't believe her. I believe she is having an emotional crisis of some sort and it's quite possible that she's finally starting to process all of her feelings associated with our divorce and also process her feelings for me with all the work I have done on myself and continue to do. Who knows? Just a thought.
I am very wary of XW. I know I did what I did. In response to that hurt, she has certainly delved out a boat load of emotional pain to me. My guess is that I need to simply remain patient and continue along the same path that is resulting in our closing the gap between us. I welcome any thoughts, any pointing to specific reading material (please, NOT the whole book) that would be of productive use, and any flat out advice with perhaps, your own experiences in working to reconcile your M.
Thanks all, Tom
Letting Go Tom; JUST DO IT! previously hopeful_husband
my A: Fall 05 W found out: Feb 06; separated immediately W pursued D, final 7/11/07
Today has been a replay of the tough times in our marriage.
Recently, I gave my XW the truth on an issue that she asked my for my truth. She in turn storms off with hurt feelings. I have learned through my divorce journey to stand silent and strong in the face of her storm because, like any other storm, she loses energy, loses steam and loses her desire to be mad. I spoke with my mother after this episode and told my mom, "I know how to stay out of these storms. I guess I just need to keep my mouth shut." My mom answered, "Why? I wouldn't."
I thought about my mom's answer some more and came to the conclusion that a good portion of the deterioration of my marriage was the fact that I did not/would not stand my ground and be assertive with her, nor speak my truth to her when she asked for it, because I was afraid at she would tell me (again!) that she wanted me to move out or that she wanted a divorce. I must admit, keeping my mouth shut got me divorced, as I ended up frustrated, afraid of divorce, and unfulfilled in my marriage.
Now, I am not saying that I think being a jerk is the right way to be. What I am saying is that as a spouse, one MUST spend time in self-reflection and be willing to articulate what they want and to assert their rights as an individual while respecting their partner's rights as a separate and distinct, unique individual. I did not do that. Hence, here I am.
Do I KNOW that what I am doing today will bring my wife and I back to reconciliation? NO! However, I do know that my past actions and inaction put our marriage on a slippery slope and I only greased the slope further by not being able to see the forest for the trees because my nose was touching the first HUGE tree.
Today, XW told me about her interactions lately with her mom, including their unpleasantness at work. Again, XW asks me my thoughts and I am very measured about what and how I respond to her because XW is used to people like her friends who simply pat her on the head and are not truthful with her. Part of the reason they are not truthful with XW is because XW, lost most of us, gives a one-sided account of the event, so not much for her friends to add or assist her with.
XW goes on, and asked me if she has any character flaws or defects and I pause. She pushes. I tell her, "Listen, I've told you this before, "You can be selfish, self-centered, and self-absorbed." XW's response, "No I'm not. I ALWAYS think of other people first." I know her. She thinks of others first if it involves going out or partying. THAT's not real life, at least not in my estimation.
XW tells me that what I say to her is judgmental. I said, of course it is. Whenever we are talking about something that is subjective rather than objective, there is always an element of judgment and discernment. That's called conversation. Giving an opinion. Relating an experience. XW then proceeds to tell me that I am the most hypocritical person she knows. I simply said, thank you, that's why I work on improving myself everyday.
XW then leaves and while walking to her car, she looks back and said that I hurt her feelings. From my personal experience, things said to me, about me, that are true hurt. I generally am not bothered by someone else's untrue "word dump." Earlier this year, XW's best buddy was telling me that she could see XW and I getting back together. I told her I don't see it. She won't ever listen to what I say to her. XW's best friend said, "Trust me, she listens to EVERYTHING you say and takes it all to heart." I do know this, as long as I was not mean or a jerk, XW will come back to me to apologize for reacting the way she did, and we move forward from there. I view it as, kind of like, building a new bridge, plank by plank. When XW does this, we just laid another plank on bridging our two hearts together once again.
So here I am, stuck with the same unknowable quandary of how to best interact with XW. Her own mother sees that she is hyper-volatile. I suppose I need to continue to work on me and love our children. The rest is in His hands. If it's His will, we will reconcile. If it's not His will, I only ask that the Holy Spirit help me to understand and accept His will and to make my way forward in a new chapter; a new life.
Letting Go Tom; JUST DO IT! previously hopeful_husband
my A: Fall 05 W found out: Feb 06; separated immediately W pursued D, final 7/11/07
