This is your life on MLC!

[Dawn of Hope]

I think my first thread is about to lock, so I'm starting a new one for when it does. Don't want to go without one when things are so bad right now--I would hate to miss any messages from any of you wonderful DB Board folks!

I am doing a little better emotionally than I was yesterday. I have to get some work done now, but I will be back later this evening to respond to the messages that have been posted on my first thread since I went offline last night. Please, keep them coming!

Thank you all so much for being so supportive and caring! I appreciate you all so much!

Peace,
Dawn

[Dawn of Hope]

Okay, I just lost about half an hour of typing. I think this is a hint that I need to be more succinct. Not making any promises! Anyway...

Other thread did lock, and I will respond to those last few posts in a bit. Thank you all for your support and advice, it really helps loads!! In the meantime, a couple of things have come up since last night that I wanted to mention.

In order of occurrence:
Last night I did a small 180 and a big 180 (that last one is ongoing).

The big one was that I went to bed when H did (about 2 a.m., normal for him). This was the third night in a row that I had gone to bed before 6 a.m., and the second night in a row that I went to bed when he did. That might not sound like a big deal if you don't know my sitch, but this is a MAJOR 180 for me, as I haven't strung together two consecutive nights of either of those in at least six months! This is something that H complained about for years: that I would be reading or working all night instead of going to bed with him. I made a DRAMATIC change to that sitch when I got the bomb, but after about three months I gradually slid back to my normal extreme night-owl habits when it didn't seem to make any difference to him any more (and after he stopped snuggling with me at all, in January). Anyway, I am back to working hard at it (thanks, Ali, for encouraging me to do that!), and last night...he noticed! We were both in the bedroom going through our respective routines, and we had this exchange:
H: So what are you doing?
Me: Going to bed.
H: (stunned) REALLY??
Me: You sound so surprised!
H: Do you think I SHOULDN'T be surprised?
Me: H, I'm teasing you. Of course you're going to be surprised!
So...he noticed enough to say something. Whether it will lead to positive developments, I'm not sure. There's more to come here.

The other, smaller 180 I did was that after we were both in bed, I turned to him and said, "Good night," as I have been doing regularly (on those rare occasions when he has still been awake when I went to bed). That wasn't the 180. The 180 was that I put my hand on his shoulder (he was on his side facing away from me). He responded, "Good night," and I took my hand away again. He seemed neither pleased or displeased, but I think it's the first time we've touched at all since he stopped kissing me goodbye, a month or two ago. (Time blurs when you're not having fun!)

Item two: Today after church I met a couple who just got married a month ago...37 years to the day after their first wedding! They had been divorced for 13 YEARS! I didn't feel like I was getting a 2x4 when I heard that, but as I thought about it later, I felt that it was a divine hint that it's never too late! I wish I had asked them what brought them back together, and whether they were involved with anyone else in the interim, but I was a little distracted and I didn't. I will plan to do so next time I see them. I was thinking about it, and realized that I personally know two couples who divorced and remarried. One couple split again and are now each married to someone else. The other couple are H's aunt and uncle, and the remarriage seems to be sticking thus far (not sure how long that's been, but as far as I know, they have been married continuously since before I met H, and that's 23 years). Oh, something else along these lines occurred to me--has anyone read "Scarlett," by Alexandra Ripley--the sequel to "Gone with the Wind"? I don't want to spoil it for anyone who will be reading it in the future, but Scarlett has something in common with us....

Item the third. The disturbing one. Today while I was checking H's and my joint e-mail account, I came across something I had known NOTHING about: H deposited five thousand dollars to our brokerage account and started trading stocks. I also remembered that I recently noticed he had paid off a significantly larger amount than usual ($1200 rather than the usual couple of hundred) on one of our perpetually-maxed-out credit cards. (FYI, I don't use any of the credit cards AT ALL unless he specifically tells me to use one for something for the household--it's all his purchases. In our household, he's the spender and I'm the saver.)

First off, WHERE in the blue blazes did he get six-thousand-plus dollars??? I am 100% positive that it wasn't just lying around collecting interest in one of our accounts somewhere! I would have thought we would be hard-pressed to come up with six HUNDRED dollars unexpectedly, but poof! Here's ten times that amount appearing from nowhere! We were doing some stock trading (a few years ago), but kept losing money, and H finally emptied the brokerage account to pay off some of our mounting debt a while ago. For the last few years, I have been hearing H complain *constantly* about how broke we are, although his comments have been fewer since the bomb (but I still hear them occasionally)--maybe he's afraid I will retaliate by pointing out that we'd be a lot better off if he weren't spending 15% of his net salary on OW! As my mother pointed out, he isn't rich enough to afford both a wife and a mistress!

Second, I have been so glad while hearing about the disasters in the financial world lately that we are not invested in stocks, except in H's retirement funds. And now H is getting on this bucking bronco???!!! I mean, I'm sure there are bargains to be had with the market's huge drop, but I would think you would have to know what you were doing, or be very lucky, to take advantage of them. H is no dummy, but we didn't do well in the stock market when it was more normal (and we were both picking stocks, and then deciding together what to buy/sell), so why is he jumping into it NOW?

Third, he has not mentioned a WORD of this to me. H and I have had a lot of issues regarding money--it was the first topic that I noticed ALWAYS made him mad when it came up (one of the first signs of MLC that I observed, although I didn't know that at the time)--but it is NOT normal for him to do something like this without discussing it with me. At least, for pre-bomb H it isn't. I am scared of what this may mean. Did he get money from his family with their blessing to help keep him afloat when he leaves me? (Not terribly likely, but possible.) Did he get a loan? (Not likely, as our credit has been maxed out for quite a while.) The only thing of significance that we have for collateral is the house, and not only is it already heavily mortgaged, I am a joint owner, so I would think I would have to sign any paperwork on that. Did he sell something? Other than musical equipment (of which he has quite a lot, but most of it is well-used, so it would take a large percentage of it to make that much money from selling it), I don't think we own anything that would bring in that much money that I wouldn't notice missing. Did he tap into a retirement account? I think that is the most likely scenario, but it doesn't make a lot of sense for him to do that and then immediately sink a good chunk of it into stock speculation (he bought a bunch of Microsoft shares--let's see, I haven't been following the stock market in great detail, but I would think a tech stock would be particularly volatile!). H is a little bit willing to take financial risks, but that seems out of his comfort zone.

So WHAT GIVES here? Do I ask him about it and risk devastation of one sort or another? It has been the better part of a year since I asked him anything I wasn't sure I would like the answer to, although occasionally I would hit one of those subjects with no idea it was coming. Do I just hope and pray for the best? I know everyone says to protect yourself financially, but...how do I do that? I live in a community property state, btw--as I understand it, it's no-fault and 50-50 split of everything joint, although I haven't consulted a L to get the details. I also don't want to do anything dishonest, even if he is. I know I need to protect myself, but I also know that I have to be able to live with myself afterward, and I would have a hard time doing that if I resorted to doing things that I believe to be unethical. I already have enough trouble with the snooping and such that I was doing in the past, and most people (except WAS's, of course) don't think that's all that bad!

In short...I don't know what is behind all of this, and I'm very doubtful that it's anything good. I seriously doubt he's saving all this for a nice surprise for me, as he still seems uninterested in even being in the same room with me, and as far as I know is still going full speed ahead with his illicit R, although (to my knowledge) they haven't actually seen each other in a month or more because of his rehearsal schedule.

His show opens Friday, by the way. He came back from rehearsal tonight and I actually got him to talk to me about it for a whole five minutes or so (had to ask a lot of questions to keep him going; I was surprised he didn't start getting irritated with my many questions, because even innocuous ones are usually like gasoline on a smoldering fire with him). So unlike the days when he would tell me all about it automatically when he got home.

So, this was a HOPELESS attempt at being more succinct (it actually seems like every draft gets longer when I have to rewrite anything!), but in closing, I will mention that Tuesday October 21 is the one-year anniversary of the bomb...and two days later is the 23rd anniversary of our first date.

Will post to everyone individually later (what, she's going to write MORE??). Yup, be afraid. Be very afraid.

Peace,
Dawn

[kelaaron]

Dawn, I just love you.

I love your 180's and obviously H didn't freak out when you touched him. I try not to remember the exact date of the Bomb, either one, but I just keep plugging.

The money thing is a little wierd. I don't really know what to tell you on that one. H and I are actually more open about money now then in the past. I too am in a community property state, which is a good thing as far as assets, but bad as far as debt. However, just like most american's these days, we too are maxed out, and yes you would have to sign papers on anything with the house. I am on the deed but not the mortgage and I still had to sign with the refinance. Who knows what they are thinking anymore. About 6 months ago, my H wanted to cash out his retirement to do stuff to his truck (although there is a hole in my roof, septic is getting old, etc...) When I told him about early withdrawl penalty, taxes, etc. he thought twice. Unfortunately with the market getting bad, he is actually losing money there right now. Not tons and it will turn around but still sucks.

H actually spent the whole day with me. Wierd. Just plain wierd anymore. But I am going with it. You sound much better than the other day. I hope you are feeling better and believe it or not, being up during the day, especially if you can get 15 minutes of sun, will do you wonders compared to staying up all night.

[kelaaron]

Dawn,
R U there?

[Dawn of Hope]

Hi, Kelaaron! How are you doing? Thanks for checking on me! I'm here, I've just been swamped with work! I would have responded earlier but I don't think I ever got notified of this last post of yours, so I didn't know anyone was looking for me, and I haven't had time to post any updates myself. I would get on and check people's threads when I had a few minutes, but I have to allow more time if I'm going to write anything.

I would like to ask for everyone's thoughts and advice on something that has come up in my sitch. I think this is one of those things that I'd know exactly how to handle if it were happening to someone else, but I'm too close to it to see it clearly. So...background: H's show opened Friday night. In the 10 years H has been doing theatre, my default practice has been to attend all of the performances of his shows unless I had a conflict. I went to this opening night performance and then Saturday night's too. (I missed Sunday's performance because I needed to catch up on work.) I had other things to do beforehand on both days, so I drove myself instead of carpooling with him, which I think made everybody happier.

I wasn't familiar with more than the rough gist of the story before I saw the show, but it was a bit unnerving for me to watch because of the parallels with my own life. The play was "Dial M for Murder," a thriller set in England around 1950. My H played the H in the story, and our good friend who is also in MLC played his W (this is the friend who is M to her second H [first one cheated on her scandalously] but is now desperately in love with her voice teacher, who is also directing this show, just to complicate matters). There are only 5 characters in the show, and these two are the main ones.

The storyline is that the H and W are apparently doing okay now, but a year earlier the W ended an A when her OM had to return to the US. She never knew that her H saw her and OM together on that last night, and then the H spent the next year pretending to be a model H while secretly going through agonies over her A. He turns out to have a rather ugly vindictive streak, and talks to a third party rather extensively about how he felt and about wanting to kill OM but eventually deciding it would be better to have his W killed instead (she is wealthy and he isn't, and he would inherit). He blackmails the third party into attempting to kill W, while H is busy establishing an alibi with the OM (who is back in the country, and who H is being perfectly friendly to while pretending to have no clue about the A). The murder attempt on the W does not go as planned, and the W ends up killing the third party in self-defense. The H then does a major CYA job and frames his W for murder, while pretending to be the devoted H.

So...it was so much fun (NOT!) hearing H onstage playing a H who has been cheated on, saying the sort of things I have said about him and about our sitch. Almost eerie. I wished I could say to him, "So, do you actually *think* about what it must be like to find out your S has been cheating on you and believes they're in love with someone else?" He actually asked me afterwards what I thought of the performance (he hasn't sought my opinion or approval about much of anything in the last year, so this was unexpected). He even seemed to be a little anxious for me to approve of his performance. I told him the show was very good, and so was he (all of which was true), and specifically mentioned what a good job he did with the subtle Jekyll & Hyde thing, especially with showing the "evil H" roiling with cold anger, hidden just under the "everyone's buddy H." I think he understood my unstated message, which I hadn't realized I was sending until it was already out there. I had sat in the audience with the H of our friend who was playing the W, and after a scene where the "evil H" was in full force on the stage, played subtly but to the hilt by my H, I turned to my friend's H in the next seat and said, "H wasn't acting, he talks to me like that all the time at home." Not a very nice thing to say, but it's true, and I was sort of thrown by the play picking up so many elements of my current life.

Now, on to the current dilemma. The play is being performed next Fri/Sat/Sun also. As I predicted a couple of weeks ago, H told me tonight that OW wants to see H perform on Friday night (Halloween). He wanted to know whether I was planning to attend the performance that night. Said he thought it would be a really bad idea for OW and me to be in the same room, as he didn't think he could count on me not to make a scene. Said he was more worried about me causing one than OW, because she would be "meek and guilty" if she met me. (He still hasn't openly admitted to me that he's boinking her, but I have seen enough proof to know I can't deny that's what is happening.) They haven't seen each other in about five weeks because of his rehearsal schedule, so they are probably both very frustrated by now, and I'm sure they would be sharing a hotel room that night (she lives five hours away), and I wouldn't see hide nor hair of him except at the theatre from the time he left for work on Friday morning until at least Saturday night after the performance. It will be amazing if he has enough energy to do a good performance on Saturday, I'm sure.

Anyway, when he told me she wanted to come, I didn't say a word about her directly, but I did ask H what would happen if I said I was going to go to the show on Friday. He said he would tell her that and she might decide not to come. He really seems anxious to avoid any possibility of a confrontation between OW and me. He wanted to know for sure whether I was planning on going or not. The last thing he told me was that I didn't have to give him an answer right then, but he insisted that he did need to get an answer sooner or later (this is much more persistent than he usually is).

So...that was a long story to get to this point, but what do I do? Do I stay away because it would be counter-productive, as he would not want me there "interfering" with his merry A, not to mention painful for me! I have NO desire to meet her at this point, although I would like to know what she is like in person. On the other hand, do I go because I don't want her to be driving my actions? I would really like to get some opinions on what I should do here and what is going on!

Oay, I have been putting myself to sleep (what do you expect at 3 a.m.?) , and I think that's enough for now.

Peace and blessings,
Dawn

[kelaaron]

Dawn,

Hey dont' worry about missing me, I just was checking. I too take time off of here if you can believe that.

On to your dilemma. Would you go if H hadn't said anything? It doesn't sound like you enjoyed it to much to begin with. Personally, I never liked that story. I understand you wanting to see what she is like, but not wanting to meet her. And it sucks that they are more worried about OW feelings and their own embarrasment than your feelings. You would have every right to make a scene in my opinion. My H asked me if I was going to call this one like I did the other and embarrass him. I guess when I ran the one off, I told her she wasn't the first and wasn't anything special, that bothered him. She also didn't like hearing she wasn't the first. But that is another tangent. But you could also rise above it and not make a scene. I guess you have to do what is in your heart. Personally, I think going twice already is enough. But I do understand you thinking here. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[AliSuddenly]

Dawn... I read all of that with interest.. he is asking you if you are going or not, but take time to think about it.. thats odd!? If he was SOOOO keen to see OW as yuo put it, he would surely have told you NOT to come?

Astrologically, the 31st is a BIG day... its building into an important time this week, which goes back to things started since late May. If I were you, knowing what I do about that date, I would go. Also, because like I said, its wierd that he is asking you and seems accepting of your right to be there and that therefore, she wont be coming if you go. Or, you could suggest you both go, but that you wont cause a scene!?

What does your heart tell you, regardless of what your H said?

Good that he asked for validation on his performance from you, thats a new one.

Ali xxx

[Dawn of Hope]

Hi, Kel and Ali,
Thanks for checking in and posting to me! I REALLY appreciate the support and feedback! I don't know why I'm not getting an email when someone posts on my thread any more; I haven't changed my preferences. Ah well, I wish that was my biggest problem at the moment.

I just re-read what I wrote last night, and was amazed at how coherent it was (despite the typo at the end) considering that when I was writing it I was so exhausted that I kept opening my eyes to discover things like kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk or dddddddddddddddd appearing on the screen. Told me just how long I'd been napping!

Now, on to your comments. Kel, yes, if he hadn't said anything, I would definitely be going to all the remaining performances. I must have given a wrong impression in my post, because despite the subject matter, I really did enjoy the show, and I love seeing how it changes from one performance to another. Last night after H made his little announcement to me, I made a phone call to my friend who plays the W in the show to discuss the situation with her. She believes my H is doing the wrong thing, cheating on me, but she doesn't say a lot to him about it because a) he is her friend too, and she doesn't think it would be helpful to nag him about it, b) she is also in MLC and subject to fuzzy logic, and c) it would be a bit hypocritical, as she is also in love with someone besides her S, although in her case, it never got to the point of a complete PA and her OM broke off their R after she told him she would leave her M (and everything else in her life) for him, and will barely give her the time of day now (and he is directing this show they are in--what a soap opera!!).

Anyway, she didn't have a whole lot of advice for me about the OW-attending-show sitch, but when I mentioned that I hadn't known much about the story before I saw the first performance, she immediately said, "I'm so sorry!" I think she felt a little guilty about not warning me, thinking I would at least read through the script beforehand as I usually do with H's shows. It actually wasn't that bad for me to see the story unfold, just unexpected. I was more...almost entertained by the irony of my H having to play the cuckolded H when in RL he is the one cheating. I can't help but wonder if he even thinks about the juxtaposition, or if he's too lost in MLC and infatuation fog to recognize it.

I did ask her what she would do if OW did come to the show--would she want to meet her? Would she be nice to her? (My friend is very much a people person, and warm and friendly and attentive to pretty much everyone.) She said, "You BET I'd meet her. I want to know what she's like. But I wouldn't hug her and tell her I've been eager to meet her because I've heard so much great stuff about her."

I don't think I would be likely to lose my temper enough to make a scene, although it would be tempting. I have a very tight rein on my behavior. I never said anything to H's first OW, even though at one point after their admitted EA (H claimed there was no PA, and I never had evidence to the contrary) was ended by my H, at least as much as you can end an EA, I suppose (which he did right after I found out about it and confronted him), I was obligated to sit next to that first OW at a wedding reception dinner. That was fun. He is still on a weekly bowling team with her, seven years later; he flatly refused to discontinue associating with her, and I figured I had to take what I could get.

Anyway, if OW and I both ended up in the same room, I wouldn't go near her, and would ignore her as much as possible. Wouldn't be easy, especially since this show is being performed in the round, so the seating is fairly intimate and small in numbers. I told my friend in our phone conversation last night that I had recently seen some videos of OW, and told her she was heavier than I had realized--"She is about the same size as 'Jane Jones'" (a mutual theatre acquaintance) My friend just about gasped, because 'Jane Jones' is so big that after a performance of a show she was in with my H, someone asked me afterwards how many pillows 'Jane' had used for padding, and was rather shocked when I said, "None, that's her real figure."

I keep getting sidetracked here, and I need to wrap this up. Ali, yes, it is very strange, but I was expecting it all along. What he said to me was, "I'm not going to tell you not to come, but I don't think it would be a good idea for both of you to be there." I don't think he wants to think of himself as the kind of H who orders his W around, but that's the only reason he won't actually insist on it. Because then he can persuade himself that it was my choice not to come and he has carte blanche. Of course, one of the reasons I normally go to all of the performances of his shows is to demonstrate my support for him. If he doesn't actually want me there, that seems counter-productive. On the other hand, I don't like the idea of slinking off into a corner for the benefit of OW, so she can get what she wants. That just doesn't sit right with me.

Of course, the big question here is not so much what I want, or even what he wants or she wants. The question is, what action will bring me closer to my goal? Would going be a good 180 for our R, since up to this point I have mostly just let him do as he pleased without my interference or objection? Would it be better to not go because he will see that I am trying to accommodate him? Or will he just think of me as a doormat then? I have been worried about my doormat-ness already. Sigh.

Please keep those opinions and snippets of advice coming, folks! I'm sure I am overthinking this, but I need some more feedback here!

Oh, on a semi-related note, I thought I would mention that I got a little surprise when I looked at H's bio in the program. In all of his shows (about 30 in the last 10 years), H always ended his bio with a thanks to me: "H wants to thank his wife Dawn for her love and support," or something along those lines. I think there was one show when he didn't mention me, and I commented on it (not nastily, just an observation), and he went back to always doing it. Anyway, I was surprised to find that this time, although he didn't say anything specific like "for her love and support," he did actually thank me in the bio, by name and as his W, as usual. I thought he would just leave it out completely.

Okay, gotta run. Please give me the benefit of your thinking!

Peace,
Dawn

[Dawn of Hope]

Total topic change here. H apparently finally noticed that the interest rate on one of the major credit cards he uses is over 20%, closer to 25%!! You'll be paying it off for three lifetimes at a rate like that! I noticed that interest rate a while ago but didn't say anything to him about it...discussions of financial topics almost always cause instant anger in him, and have for a number of years. The clue was the mailing from the credit card company that indicated he had recently inquired about lowering the rate. It will be interesting to see if they will lower it, and if not, what he does. Still don't have a clue where the $6000 came from that he started investing last month; I don't think he realizes that I know about it. I'm scared to ask what has happened to those investments, considering that we are currently going through one of the most volatile periods in the history of the stock market.

I must admit, I am kind of worn out after over a year of resistance to letting his actions yank my chain. Like everyone else, I wish I could just wave a wand and make everything wonderful again.

I'm still QUITE interested in other opinions about whether I should go to H's show on Friday, or bow out gracefully so that OW has a turn. I'm really not inclined to make this any easier for the two of them than I already have. *I* don't have anything to be ashamed of; I'm not going to hide.

What do you think about the sitch?

Peace,
Dawn

[glamgirl]

Dawn my opinion take it for what it's worth. In thinking along the lines of love and respect and giving support to your h I simply would say something like "why of course h I will be attending. I love watching you perform, you have such talent and I wouldn't want to miss any performances unless I absolutely needed to."

Then dress like a hot number and show up for the play don't bother even glancing in ow's direction. She has nothing on you. After the play don't linger too long but go up to your h give him a very loving warm kiss and tell him how fabulous he was.

Then exit gracefully like a swan knowing you supported your h and didn't allow any person or circumstance dictate your actions or your life.

Remember though NO confrontation with ow if she shows. It would not become you!

That is what I would do, but I am kind of dramatic.

Not an easy situation, but ow may choose not to show!