Mixed Signals or Just My Imagination ?

[native]

Here are a few links to my threads, I am movng from Peicing back to seperated:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1612724

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1610995

Strange happenings lately.

After a week of 'going dark', a few odd developments.

The other night (maybe Thurs ?), W called from work and wanted to come by to say goodnight to D6 and see her cat.

She rarely calls to say goodnight to D when D is staying w/me, much less has she ever come over here at night to say goodnight to D.

She didn't interact w/me much. I've been sick with a cold and I felt rather tired and subdued myself. She did look at me and asked me how I felt. After goodnights to D, she left the room. I said goodnight to her and she replied with the same.

Well, fast forward to Fri. night. I had spent the night at my parents watching over my grandmother (95 yo.!) while they were out of town. I was still sick and had a so so evening, feeling very lonely for my family, wanting to call W and tell her how much I miss her. But I've been going dark, so none of that.
I spent my time watching tv or on this website.

This morning it was perfect weather and I went for a walk and came back to clean up, etc. Decided I was not feeling great yet, so I did not call W to see about taking D out, as we had previously discussed. The plan as I understood it was to p/u D at 5:00, but was supposed to call to verify whether she would eat dinner or not w/wife.

Phone was not working b/c I have a new one and have been trying to activate it. Wasn't able to so I could not call W. I went a little early to p/u D.

Turns out W had been trying to reach me all day so she could 'make plans' and was very upset.

Said she had left a very upbeat message (which I listened to later, it was really nice: unusual for her lately as she has been a real b****h.

W seemed absolutely miserable. She confided to me that after 7 years (our whole marriage) her sexuality had come roaring back and she is desperate for sex, but not attracted to me.
At the same time, she did not want to 'sleep around'. She said she felt like it was a cruel joke that God had played on her.

I indicated my regrets for our difficulty w/sex and my lack of knowledge and skill at the time. I said I had learned a lot about what I could have done differently.

She countered that I hadn't, and I said she would never know, which she agreed.

She said I still did not know the things to do to meet her needs. Odd thing to say, don't you think ? Why would she care if I did or didn't ? I said I have been giving her space, because she seemed to want that.

During this whole time I did not get angry or feel personally rejected. I hurt for her and told her I wished I could go back and do things differently.

Though this painful conversation had no satisfying end, I found it peculiar that she should confide this struggle to me.

And I feel somewhat at peace in a strange way.

After all, she had called and made a point of being cheerful and lighthearted. She had gotten very upset at not being able to reach me all day.

She had confided very intimate struggles to me. I doubt she has shared this with anyone else.

Somehow I feel something is happening.

Anybody have any thoughts about this ?

Am I compeletly missing the whole point ? I think I should continue to go dark.

Actually disinvited myself to a dinner Sun. night w/her extended family to continue to give space to a very agitated W.


Wonder if she will wish I were there.....her feelings seem to be really churning.....


Edited by native (Yesterday at 08:03 PM)
_________________________
Me 47
W 32
D 6
Known each other 10 yrs.
M 7
Bomb dropped 4/08
Seperated 8/10/08

'Is it getting better, or do you feel the same ?
Will it make it easier on you, now you've got someone to blame ?'

Bono, U2 'One'

[native]

So, I don't know what to make of my wifes sexual reawakening and her confession of it to me.

After 2 mos. seperation she says her sexual desire has returned but she is not attracted to me.

From much earlier conversations I know that before we were dating, and we were just friends, she made it known to me that she was attracted to me.

I told her at the time (9 yrs ago) that I wasn't interested in her in that way. Her response was to 'turn off' that attraction to me. This is what she told me.

She said that later, after I had proposed to her that she had hoped the attraction would return, but it never did.

During our M, she never initiated sex and rarely affection. She wanted me to figure out how to turn her on.

In retrospect, she needed to be wooed in specific ways that I was ignorant of for the longest time, and she was very vague about what she needed.

Eventually when she was getting ready to announce she wanted a seperation she cited that she could not live without intimacy and romance.

I confess, those were really general words to me and they meant different things to me than her apparantly.

What I did understand that she needed, I withheld in reaction to her constantly withholding sex from me. I was really tired of trying and getting nowhere.

She does not want to 'sleep around', or so she says, so she has a dilemma. She says it is a cruel joke God is playing on her.

I don't know why she even told me all this. She won't allow me to do anything at the moment, we are not even dating.

But I sense she wants me to be able to do something about it. It seems like what she is saying, through her accusations that she wishes I could turn her on. I feel like she is giving me mixed messages. ( earlier in the day she left message and was very lighthearted, asking how I was feeling as I had been sick: this is completely out of character from her recent attitudes towards me)

But I have been going dark, not pursuing, not calling, texting, etc unless necessary.

I also disinvited myself to a family dinner with her brother and his W, her Mom,etc tonight because I don't feel comfortable being there, based upon her words, which hurt me deeply.

Any advice ?

Edited by native ( 5 minutes 23 seconds ago)
_________________________
Me 47
W 32
D 6
Known each other 10 yrs.
M 7
Bomb dropped 4/08
Seperated 8/10/08

'Is it getting better, or do you feel the same ?
Will it make it easier on you, now you've got someone to blame ?'

Bono, U2 'One'

[native]

W called to let me know she was in the hood and would p/u D6 so I wouldn't have to drive to her mom's. Sounded very nice and upbeat.

No doubt she was down the street at "Project Girls" house. *

I decided to dress up a little and to leave about the time she got here. I had disinvited myself from a dinner out with her family, b/c her mom (not her) was the one who invited me.

W came in for a while and eventually said ' You can come to dinner if you want to' to which I replied that if she wanted me to come I would, but only her mom had invited me. She said ' I said Friday you could come' and I said that at the moment I did't recall that. She got upset and said why should she be to blame if I forgot. I said I'm not blaming you. I just said I don't recall that.

Since she was not listening to me, but reading into everything I just said, ' Anyway, I want to give you some space. I need some space too and I've got something else planned to do tonight. Thanks anyway. Maybe next time.'

I really wanted to go to the dinner. To pretend everything was fine for a few hours.

But I am pissed and confused by her 'sexual reawakening' confession the other day. And how she wasn't attracted to me.

So, I went out and spent some $$$ on myself tonight. I bought some personal grooming stuff and some new clothes. (I have sacrificed my own needs for a long time while each season W needed a new wardrobe b/c she grew a size.)

I am really having a time with my anger towards her.

I know she has been through hell (mostly a self-imposed one, since she speaks in convoluted ways that just confuse me so I never know what she is saying. Or she just keeps stuff to herself, or she explodes and I have no clue what the hell just happened.)

But I understand now she felt unloved, as she was looking for specific manifestations of intimacy and romance, and I was not speaking her love languages. Also I was not great at foreplay and she was never really 'warmed up' for sex. I mean, I feel awful about that, my ignorance, not understanding what she wanted, feeling rejected.

But I still am angry. She knows I showed love to her and our D6 in the way I knew how. She just discounted my love to her bc it wasn't the way she wanted it.

I want the chance to speak to her in her love languages now, but I may not get it.

Anyway, she made an effort to get me to come, and I would have, but I thought that perhaps this time it would be best to hold back. Get her thinking that she may lose me. And anyway, I'm still angry about her sexual awakening confession, and how she doesn't find me attractive.

I understand her dilemma. She wants sex, she doesn't want to whore around, but the only legitimate person available (me) she is not attracted to.

So I'm chopped liver ? Well F*** You. That's how I really feel. I am so angry right now. After all I did to try to hold this family together. All the slack I had to take up when she decided to 'check out' years ago on the housework, childcare, everything but her job. The countless times I cared for her when she had a migrane or was not feeling well, or listened to her share about her day.

Words cannot express the anger I have over this latest slap in the face.

But I can't help but think that she wishes she was attracted to me, and that she thinks I can do something about it.

But I'm going dark right now. She has never pursued me except before we were married.

I think it is time she pursued me some.




*('PG' or 'Vampirella' is a super shy, suicidally depressed,lesbian who's partner committed suicide last year, who is living on a trust fund and trying to hit on my W and seems to be the main social connection W has outside of work).

[Changed Woman]

Okay, I could really be way off base with this, but I'm gonna say it anyway and pray you don't take offense. Is it possible your wife is questioning the basis of her sexuality. In other words is she maybe thinking she may be attracted to women? I don't know why I'm reading things this way and you can tell me to shut up or that I'm way off base, but I am taking from what you said that you maybe weren't the most "skilled" lover during your marriage and that as a result wife didn't have an opportunity to get really turned on. Is that true? If so, is it possible this woman she associates with and she have had some kind of experience that did turn her on? They do say a woman knows what a woman wants. I'm wondering if her comments to you about how she wants sex but isn't attracted to you are out of confusion and frustration. Maybe something is coming alive in her and she wishes you could be the one to satisfy her?

Okay so here is where I could be giving you really bad advice. Why don't you just through caution to the wind and try and seduce her a bit. I'm thinking maybe you've been reading up on how to please a woman...if not you should. Then maybe if you do have a sexually pleasing experience (from her point of view) her confusion will be less pronounced?

Okay....sorry if I offended you

[native]

CW,

No offense taken. Anything is up for grabs right now as far as finding an answer. Its a logical possibility....

Both her mom and I have confronted her about this R with 'PG'. She says she is not interested, but has admitted PG made her interests known and has not cut off contact w/her.

W has not had same sex relations in the past, and she has told me about a lot of her sexual history, but has gotten involved with a lot of losers (guys). A lot of them were 'players' who were expert at seduction, which I am not. But once they got what they wanted, they were gone.

One of the reasons W chose to marry me is she knew I would not leave her. This was one of her early fears, and it took a while before she got over it.

She is in many ways a very naive but wonderful person, just no judgement of character. (Her hippy parents embrace EVERYONE and EVERYTHING....the wierder the better so she gets it honest ! )

I think PG has provided her a sense of being able to help someone else, and is so shy that I'm sure she is a good listener. (She would find it hard to form two coherent sentences if put to the test).

But your thoughts are echos of mine. I have wondered several times about this relationship.

Could she be vulnerable ? Maybe. But I don't think anything is actually going on.

Maybe something is coming alive in her and she wishes you could be the one to satisfy her?

Something has definitly come alive in her. I do think she wishes I could be the one to satisfy her, but she thinks it's impossible since she isn't attracted to me, doesn't love me.

If she could forgive me the things that she feels I have hurt her, then I think she might find me attractive again. Right now I am the cause of her pain, misery and depression, according to her. (I wasn't perfect....but I'm working on it now ! )

I would love to try to seduce her, but she doesn't even want to date at the moment. So getting to the place where I have the opportunity to sexually please her may be a long time in coming.

Thanks for responding to my post CW. This is my current sitch. I am just trying to take the right steps one day at a time. Any input is welcome.

[Changed Woman]

Hey, Native...hang in there...this is a LONG road we're on. I hear you about the difficulty of seducing when she won't date you, but if there are opportunities when you see her, try being a little flirty. Make lots of eye contact, maybe notice something about her appearance and compliment her...maybe a slight touch. I dunno...I'm acting like I'm an expert and my own sitch isn't all that great.

Anyway, it sounds like your wife has some pretty big issues with self esteem and such. Has she thought about counseling for herself? Did you guys every go together?

[native]

Thank you for your suggestions. I have been going dark for a week, and it seems that something is happening with her.

She has begun to change her tone towards me, instead of bitchy, she has tried being lighthearted.

She is in a lot of agony, but I feel I can do nothing until she invites me to.

I appreciate your tips on flirting. I can try it, but I feel it must be very subtle.

As for counselling, W has been in counseling for 7 yrs., the whole time we have been married. She told her family after the bomb that it was marriage counselling, but I know there were a number of other issues she was dealing with.

If it was marriage counselling, why was I not involved ?

We did go together during crisis's.

Last fall she asked me if I wanted to go by myself. I said it might be a good idea ( I was pretty put out with her at the time) but I didn't bc of the $$. Besides, it would have been a gripe session, as I only felt frustration with her.

In her mind, this is the example she used to say that I would not go to counseling. Had I known how seriously desperate she was feeling about our M, and my behavior in particular, we would have gone together.

We both have a lot of responsiblity in how we got here, but up till now, I am the only one who has accepted any responsibility.

I do think it is a long road. How long I am afraid to imagine.

[native]

I am feeling the weight of lonlieness as I woke up 4 am and no one in the house but me. I am dealing with very bad sinus congestion and cold and sometimes get the fear I might not be able to breathe. I can breathe though, just not through my nasal passages.

I think if I had a real emergency how no one would be here to know...

And so I really feel cut off and isolated at this moment.

And it makes me wonder if this is the way W felt, unnoticed, cut off, isolated in our M.

BC I had tried to ML less and less frequently due to her continued rejection. ( In retrospect, she needed some romance and emotional intimacy, which we were not making time or space for for various reasons)

But I think she felt unnoticed as I definitely focused on nurturing D6 since W seemed so difficult to be with.

Whatever the reasons, I think to be around someone, and to go unnoticed must be like not being alive on some level.

Or to be alive, but unable to connect, like there was an invisible barrier around you others could not penetrate.

Like being buried alive....

I wonder is this is how my sweet W felt when I ignored her in the past.

Or when the only connection is when you argue...

[hopeforfuture]

Native,
Wondering how W felt in years past is unhealthy at best and will get you no forward progress. Stop putting so much blame on yourself. There were two of you in the marriage. There was obviously a disconnect with the sex and the communication, but it was not up to you to be a mind reader. Your W could have made suggestions about what it was that she was looking for. Light some candles, draw a bath, etc. It takes two.

I haven't read all of your sitch, but why is she bringing up her sexual awakening with you? Maybe she is hinting that she wants you to do something about it. Make a suggestion that you could help her out if she is feeling the bug. Flirt with her. Tell her she's sexy when she's least expecting it. Stop apologizing for things you did or didn't do in the past, especially when discussing the sexual issues. I think this just tends to reinforce her memory of things not being right. Step up now and do things differently.

[native]

I appreciate the thoughts. It is hard to know from this end what anything means. It's nice to bounce things off others and get a new perspective.

Btw, we haven't had sex in a year. One night she got into bed and I rolled over and started to make out with her and she recoiled and asked me how I could just expect to have sex like that, and that she never wanted to have sex with me again, didn't want a second child with me and other hurtful things.

I was in shock. And pretty pissed off. After that I made no attempt to have sexual contact with her again.

She had never acted like this before, and it really put me off.