The cave(as per John Gray)

[luckyman]

Just a thought.
I have them evry now and then.

I go into alot of peoples houses.I see how husbands and wives react to differant things.The other day A guy(laywer)came home from work.Grabbed a bottle of scotch and went into his room.Never to be seen again.
After reading alot of posts the past 3 yrs.Seeing my friends divorce.And talking to people.
Oh yeah,my own behavior.

I had my own flooring store for 10 yrs.I would come home from work.Eat and stuff.Sit in the living room.My d(now 12)would stand behind me and do my hair.She'd put it up,put things in it.I looked like ferina of the little rascals.
By the time the youngest was 2 or 3.I gave up the living room.It's easier to have the kids watch videos.Keeps them quiet.The wife was changing,and complaining I wasn't aroung enough.I had moved my store closer to home.Closing the store earlier and on Sundays.Ended up loosing to many customers.I went into a depression.My dream was to have a few stores and act like the big boss.
I would come home ,eat and go into my room(aka,the cave) and watch tv.And think.I knew I was loosing my wife.But couldn't figure out what to do about it.

Did you go into the cave before your wife went hay wire?
Or ladies,did your H go into the cave,before he went off?

Back in 91 we visited my best man in Calf.I saw my him do the same thing.He would not help with the kids or any thing.He'd put his head phones on and tune every thing out.His x was constantly yelling at the kids.They were divorced in 93.
I saw this happen with others, since my divorce.

Think good thoughts
Hug your kids
peace

Sue,notice I wrote you,and not yous.

LM,

H definitely went into his cave. I don't think he said more than a few words to me the last couple of years he was here. Went to work, came home and went straight upstairs to the computer where he stayed until 2 or 3 A.M.

Nagging him about it obviously wasn't too effective. Oh well, live and learn I guess...

That being said, I'm not a big John Gray fan. I think he simplifies everything a little too much.
I'm not so sure everything fits into such tidy little bundles.

How are you doing?

rayanne

[ August 13, 2002, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: rayanne ]

[apeman]

Work was kind of my cave. I admit I worked too much. I didn't have a cave at home which may actually have been part of the problem. I think my ex would have liked me to retreat to the cave. At home I was always on, especially with my daughter. I always wanted to play, go places, go out as a family with the dogs or to the park or river. I think I drove her nuts because I always had a lot of energy when I got home and she didn't. Of course I wasn't depressed and you could say I'm kind of hyper. I always complained that she would never do anything with me and my daughter because she was always tired even though she worked part time. The ex just wanted me to be home to take our kid off her hands so she could retreat into her cave. I know women aren't supposed to have caves but she did.

[bluedogg]

I think I'm in my cave now, only it's clean and comfy and the door is open.

[3K451]

I know my H started building his cave before we separated. Worked or sat at his computer until wee hours. We both barely functioned, went through just the motions of home life.

Now, he's still in his own cave still... doesn't care to interact much with me or family, but seems as though he's "getting a life." Or, tries to make sure we know he has one by constantly reminding me of it. Still not so sure he has one. Works, goes to his apt, might work out, might paint a friends' house. But, generally that's it. But who knows? We're pretty dark to each other. But have learned he checks up on stuff once in awhile through kids.

I too am still a bit in a cave. But only to his outward appearances. And, planning to leave that mental cave here soon.

I think this is a common thing, and it may be related to depression in my view and now that you mentioned it because of the "boss thing," I think it is a way for two people to avoid each other who think there is a large element of "control" in the R. Just my meandering thoughts there.

[Chelsea]

My H did the "cave" thing too. Work was his thing. Unfortunately I didn't recognize "his retreat" until after our separation (the very first one). I just thought that he was trying to better things....home improvements, outside work for more income, etc.

Had I only known...

Since then, I recognize other couples who do it too. It's so sad.

[ August 14, 2002, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: Chelsea ]

[Atossup]

Guilty as charged.
I wish my ex had come in just once and sat on my lap, turned off the computer or whatever I was doing and asked "whats wrong? Don't you love me and the kids anymore??".
What a great question that would have been. Never happened and it was too late when I realized what had happened.
The cave is not a pretty place and I advise those that have loved one's that are there to try and get them out.
Rondo

[Frosty]

Mine definitely had ‘caves’ at different stages. One thing I missed, before I would get home from work, he would go into his workshop and surf for porn. I feel sad because the girls told me about it after he left. They knew he was doing something because he started putting books in front of the door.

After dinner, he would head for our bedroom while I went for a run and watch TV. He’d go to bed early, probably to avoid any actual interaction. Seems sad to remember.

Funny thing, talking about what you notice about couples. At the party for my brother, I seriously watched my sis (who thinks I lost my H due to me working), she nags her H incessantly. I found myself sticking up for him. She is in the mode of, I stay home, take care of these 6 kids, 1 on the way and when he’s home, he should wait on me and the kids. She’s done this for a while, but not to this extreme.

I do find that I watch couples dynamics a lot.

[Wintergirl]

H went into the cave big time. The computer was his cave, for awhile. Would avoid all conflict. I had blinders on, felt something was amiss but figured I was imagining things. Good was mixed in with the amiss feelings, so it threw me off, if that makes any sense. Then I went into the cave - obsessing about a hobby to deal with the empty marriage. So to answer the question, he was in the cave but instead of him going off, I did. (I merely confronted him - backed him into a corner, figuratively, and forced it out of him). By the way, H did learn to resist the cave and express emotions (which weren't good for my ego, but it was progress for him).

WG

[ August 14, 2002, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: Wintergirl ]

[Mary]

I agree with bluekeys in that it may be related to depression - certainly was in my ex's case.

He had been diagnosed by a psychiatrist as having both obsessive compulsive personality disorder (they tend to be perfectionistic workaholics) AND depression. His "cave" was work and sitting at the computer and reading about internet start-up companies (he too wanted to be the big boss). He stopped going on walks with me, going to movies, going to family parties.

Depression comes in lots of varieties, and in some people it passes on its own in a few weeks; but many people have a biologically based tendency to move into depressions on a regular basis, sometimes staying there for months or years at a time with only variations between mild and moderate and severe.

My ex's personality disorder (manifested in workaholism and perfectionism about the pickiest details - like magazines having to be stacked perpendicular to the coffee table edges) got worse as his depression got worse. When he was on antidepressant medication, both mood and personality disorder symptoms improved.

I have said many times here that I bet a huge percentage of divorces are due to undiagnosed and untreated mental disorders.

Hey, I have a mild mental disorder myself: claustrophobia. It's not bad enough that it interferes with my functioning socially or occupationally, but it's a mental disorder just the same. A lot of people have mental disorders, and if they just got renamed to something with less stigma (I'm not clever enough to think of better words for it!), maybe more people would admit to theirs and seek help when the problems start interfering with family life or work life or both.

And there's NO WAY IN HELL you will ever find me in a cave!!! Just the thought of it makes me shiver!!!