Hello everyone, I have not posted much, but have tapped into a lot of wisdom on these boards.
Here is my situation: Separated since 9/07, married 30 years next month, D20 and S17--both away at school, I'm living alone on our small farm, H had midlife crisis/depression--but not on medication.
Anyway, I have divorce-busted, GALed, and actually found some peace as a result. H has continued to stay in touch, significantly helped out at the homeplace, but has been extremely unhappy, even desperately unhappy at times. However, he seems to have given up on the idea that a different woman (or several) is the answer to his unhappiness, and is making some real efforts at personal growth (mindfulness, radical acceptance, power of now, etc.)
We are going to counseling this afternoon with this specific question: Our friends' daughter is getting married in Costa Rica next month. Back in February, H wanted to go, we bought tickets, and then a month later he backed out, has "dated" other women, just hasn't quite committed to piecing.
Now he says "if" we can work it out, he "wants to try."
He has changed his mind so many times that I think that it is too early for us to take an 11 day trip together. I told him that it is not that I don't want to go with him, just that it seems too early for that much togetherness. I suggested that we could discuss it with the MC we were seeing before H moved out. (I stopped MC, because H seemed determined to move out, and it was just making him say meaner and meaner things to justify himself.)
The big Q: Today, in counseling, can I be truthful about how hurt I have been by all of this, and tell him that if he is really ready to commit, we can go?
I can't imagine going together if he is not ready to commit. At this point I am planning to go alone and have a good time (I am supposed to meet some friends of friends at a remote surfing location, and try to learn to surf!)
I wonder if it is productive to calmly be truthful about the heartbreak, and what it would take to heal. Or is it still too early? Or is it never OK, because it puts so much pressure on him?
Please advise--I have not felt such an emotional upwelling in a really long time, and I am trying to be wise, kind, but honest.
Sorry to see you in this stich...I am maybe not the person to advise you...my h at one point when he left (we are back together now)...I thought he was going through a mid-life; it was a EA, but maybe a bit of mid-life too...he did get depressed, but then, I do now believe it was because he was rejected by OW.. But I can relate to the "meaness"..I found personally that when he was acting like that...I just couldn't be around him, and if I had to be..I would detach..and I have also found that detaching is a on going process..even when our WAS comes back into the home and M...someone very wise said this: believe nothing they say...and half of what they do...so then with that, I guess I would say this...can you go with him and be detached from what he says and does? And if you can, if I were you, I would see your friends..DBinging is about GAL, and we are to always keep that up...no matter if they come back or not...
Thanks Liz, Thank you for your thoughts--I don't think I can be detached for such a long period of time (i.e. on a trip together), especially when the wounds are still so fresh.
I am afraid that we would fall back into old habits--he gets snipey and irritable and I take it way too personally and overreact and want to fix it (make up and be happy) RIGHT NOW!
Any suggestions for good resources for "piecing?" I was able to be the divorce-busting thing pretty well, and it obviously got good results, but the books seem pretty light on the part about when they come back...I have worked hard on myself and gotten a long way, but does there come a time when you can expect that honestly saying "Ouch" will elicit some gentleness?
I have such a longing for tenderness, not just being treated as the fall-back plan, but I am afraid to say so directly...
Well..that is a tough question..the best advice I can give is this...trial and error...what I have found with my h is that I do have to be soo careful when to bring up stuff..what his mood is, and of course being gentle when I bring things up about how I am feeling... what I found does work with my h is this...when I have felt a bit insecure about our R, I will tell him that I know that I have caused alot of our issues in the M, and that I hope that I am a better wife now, he will usally tell me that I am, kiss me, I cry, he hugs me and tells me how blessed he is to have me..at times he has even admitted to his wrong doing, cries and tells me how sorry he is for ever hurting me...
So sweetie, time and patients...it is so hard at times, especially when they come home..we want so much for things to be all better..but piecing is the hardest part of all.
And about the fall-back plan...oh how I can relate...I don't know what the stats are on when at least for my stich..they come back because they are trying to get over the OW/OM...I have told my h that I feel like I am the second choice..he did once respond by saying that I am his soul mate...and that he made a mistake having feelings for girl 21..(dahhh)..but anyways; it kinda has to do with each individual situation, how committed are they, and did they realize the best thing was always there for them...they were STUPID and should never of left in the first place...when/if they come to that..then I think in most cases we get the tenderness we so much want...
Just keep working on you hun...this is a life time journey.. and I do see that after some time, they notice us and they do jump (though slowly) on the reality train and off the space ship they have been on.
Farmgirl, I can understand your hesitation about taking an 11 trip with your H. He states that he is ready to work on things, but this is a recent change of heart, and his behavior doesn't inspire trust.
I don't think you can enjoy a trip with H at this time, so would support your decision to attend this trip solo. I don't think his verbally saying that he is ready to commit is enough. I don't think it would be honest, even if he said it. His behavior indicates he's not at that point.
You two are in the early stages of healing, so need to take it slowly. Long trips together are for a later date.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
I did tell H in counseling yesterday that it is too early to take a trip together--that it's not that I don't want to go with him, just that it would feel like a big test, and I didn't want to put that kind of pressure on us, etc. I had told him that earlier, but I think he was still surprised that I was still telling him no.
The other thing I did was take in a list of 11 of his "positive changes" that I wrote up yesterday. He keeps telling me that I have changed (thanks, DB) and I wanted to tell him in a way that he would hear, that I appreciate the changes he is making (smiles more, does not criticize me, enjoys cooking together, etc., is committed to personal growth--the last one.) When I read it to him, he actually cried. (This is a man who did not cry when either of his parents died.)
Anyway, he came home for dinner, cooked with me, had a philosophical discussion about life, and was actually quite gentle with me, before going back to his "cave."
I have been working on "radical acceptance"--good stuff! It is my antidote to fear. It is very powerful to wake up to the present moment and be open to what is actually happening!
2 weeks ago, I went to a contra dance (folk dance) weekend at a rustic camp, about 2 hours away from home. (I do this for the joy of it, not to look for a boyfriend--some of those happily married men are the best dancers.) Wonderful live music, and 200+ wonderful, good dancers. I sat on the porch, sweating and tired, during one of the breaks and realized that, at that moment, there was no place I would rather be, and nothing I would rather be doing.
At that camp, one of the people I talked to was a happily married man, whose smile was like the Dalai Lama's. He is "in recovery" (AA) and gave me a copies of his wallet cards about "acceptance, freeing myself, being here now, interacting with others," etc. It was the same message of radical acceptance, from a slightly different perspective.
Anyway, just wanted to pass that on, as something that has helped me get some peace, while it felt like my life was exploding in my face (it wasn't, and it doesn't really!)
Thanks again for the thoughts when my emotional gut was so churned up, yesterday. We are supposed to go back to MC next week--it is so hard to go in there! It stirs up my longings in a way that I spend the rest of my time trying to calm and diminish...
I keep telling myself that "if you argue with reality, you lose!"
But it is so hard to know what the truth is--that is the trick, isn't it? I can't "know" the truth, because it changes, and it is continually revealed. I just have to accept each moment as it comes, with an open heart.
Anyway, everyone, enjoy this beautiful day and this beautiful moment. I am looking out my window at the rain and the amazing green lushness of this stage of spring in NC.
But it is so hard to know what the truth is--that is the trick, isn't it? I can't "know" the truth, because it changes, and it is continually revealed. I just have to accept each moment as it comes, with an open heart.
Hi farmgirl,
I totally relate to what you wrote above. I've had to change my thinking from the frame of mind that I want to know how things will turn out to trying to appreciate the small improvements and the good things that are here now.
You handled the C session wonderfully. I'm glad it went so well.
Thanks, NA, for telling me I handled the C session well--nothing like MC to bring my insecurities, second-guessing, etc. back with a powerful rush!
Good luck to you--I read some of your thread--congratulations on your H moving back! I remember the days of young kids--I hope that you are able to enjoy and (perhaps quietly, internally) celebrate the fact that the father of your 3 wonderful children is there with you! Despite the inevitable difficulties, remember, as MLK said, to "keep your eyes on the prize."
Farmgirl, You radiate such PMA (Positive Mental Attitude) (DB lingo), on this post.
I'm thinking there's a book written by a therapist called "Radical Acceptance." Have you read it?
Since you're open to a mindfullness approach, you might also enjoy, "Happiness is an Inside Job," by Sylvia Boorstein. It talks about three of Buddhism's eight-fold paths--Wise Effort, Wise Mindfullness, and Wise Concentration. It's written as a self-help book rather than a religious text, so it's easy, yet helpful reading
I love the arguing with reality quote.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Liz7, I have been thinking about what you said about time, patience, life-time journey, etc. It is helpful to be reminded of that reality, because my mind wants to jump to quick fixes, or just give up! That is my hardest challenge--to stop thinking that there is some quick fix, and I just haven't figured it out yet.
CL,I have ordered the book "Radical Acceptance" by Tara Brach--it comes very highly recommended. And, bless him, my H told me a week ago that he sees that as his "personal liberation theology!" So, I am hopeful, but trying not to get too carried away, to wait and see...
I will definitely check out the Sylvia Boorstein book you recommended. It's funny, but I was just looking at a summer workshop at the Omega Institute, where she is one of the leaders.
The sun is out here, now, and it is a luminous day, with a steady, gentle breeze.
