I suppose when you do something that changes the dance, then you are in the lead. If you are changing things for the better then you're DBing. Even a spouse whose running away is still dancing. Even after a divorce (especially if there are kids) you're still dancing.
We had a same old dance step this am with a twist. This part of the dance is me trying to find some time for our marriage and a tiny bit of social life and my H seeing that as a threat to his work. He had OKd having my coworker and his wife over, then was angling for making this up 3 fold by working all the evenings and bringing things home for every spare moment this weekend. Still after all this time I have not got the don't let them see you cry part down. It doesn't help at all because then he's doing whatever because he feels guilty which leads to resentment sooner or later. Besides that, I deserve better. I don't want that kind of attention--that is not love in my book.
The twist was that he said he would come home this eve and I insisted that he not come home. Usually I'd have accepted him coming home and said thanks but I just couldn't do that again and feel positive about it. I'm starting to have more pride than that. I think this is a step in the right direction.
He has been working so much and some of the affair behaviors have been around--like way less sex than usual. We talked some about this Friday and he has me believeing that there is no new affair. Saddly, I think I'll never give him better than a 50% chance on that score but I've chosen to live with that.
Frankly, I'm somewhat concerned about having my coworker over because my H has a track record of being sullen when we are in a social situation that is important to me. I have been surprised most of the times he has done this (you would think I'd learn) so maybe I can be better prepared if it happens this time. I'm determined to enjoy these people, be sensitive and inclusive with my H, but not miss a beat if he starts acting sullen--that will be his problem and I will not let it affect me.
The bottom line with the work situation has to be get busier myself and let him work all he wants. I have to get over it. This guy doesn't want much of a marriage, that's just the way it is, so I better find other ways to meet my needs that make me happy but don't jepardize the marriage further. What do you think folks?
Why not have your friends over anyway. You don't need him to be there. Let him walk into his own house with parties under way. If all the guy wants to do is work, why not show him you are maintaining and building friendships without him.
That's one to consider. I have the skills to do this no problem. I've lived as a happy, healthy single person with plenty of good friendships longer than as a married person.
I get thrown by this issue because it has been confusing to me that my H's words and actions don't match. He says he wants to be involved in events, friendships, etc that are important to me (and I think he really does mean it at the time) but then when the opportunities arise about 65% of the time he acts withdrawn or even antagonisticly. As I write this I realize that he is better than he used to be on this. During the affair (for any who don't know it was over 4 years and I didn't have the remotest idea) I operated just like you are describing, I was completely independent of him in my social, and work life. Yet I was the doting wife. Taking care of him in every way so he could be free to do his work was the number one priority.
So what's the solution? #1. Stop whinning and forgive the guy alright, already. #2. Selectively go back to some of the patterns during the affair? Stop associating them with the affair and realize they did get me through something worse than I knew. #3. Get more exercise! Think I'll get to work on that one right now!
[ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: alottolearn ]
Thanks, Kent. Wonder if I'll ever figure out how to lighten up!
Here's an update: Yesterday am even though I did cry, I did a pretty good job of whole heartedly saying to my H, "I don't want you to see me as competeing with your work for your attention, give your work all the attention you want--I'm not the oposition". No way José am I interested in a power struggle with my H. So, last night he came home about midnight (2a has been more of the norm lately) and said that much to his amazement he had finished one of his two grants for this stage. He had an important meeting this am so I called at noon to see how it went. He handled the situation so well (this is one thing that lets me know he really has made important changes in his life--he is standing up for himself at work like never before--not only that but he's doing so with SUCH grace and I am sooo proud of him: this is the guy I'm totally in love with). Any way at the end of the conversation I said "OK, well I'll see you tomorrow morning" (he had said he would need to work each night this week and there is that other grant) but he said no he had finished what he needed to finish and would be home for dinner....maybe I took some step in the right direction. However, I know that, for my own sanity if nothing else, I need to realize that my stand of refusing to be an opposing force to his work has to be something permanent. I don't compete, I just try to be the best self I know how to be, whether he takes me or leaves me I'm going to be the same!
[ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: alottolearn ]
I have a whole page of quotes from this thread. So many helpful things, and articulations of how I feel. Like this:
I still sometimes feel very split in who I am...the strong independent one who has the world by the horns...and the other one who still bears the wounds inflicted by the betrayal.
And this:
I can also say I don't give W ready access to the me inside. I also have found she does not want ready access, just limited access.
Now Kent, I know this will probably sound kinda heavy but... Lots of folks think that affairs come along when the relationship is too fused, too intense, instead of it being the product of distance. (What me? Too intense???) I think that was true for us. Part of it was that I was used to having lots of very close friendships and my H wasn’t. He was used to working his butt off and not taking time for relationships. We have a wonderful arrangement for complementing each other OR completely burning each other out.
Here is what has helped me:
I have learned that the hurt one is the part of me that is completely alone with my own conscience, the HP, whatever you want to call it. The only real comfort I can find is inside me. (This way of looking at things gives my H the "space" he needs and gives me the realization that I am responsible for my own happiness.) It doesn’t help to try to get my H to comfort me. At the level I feel hurt, he can’t do it--nobody can. My H can only handle extremely limited access to me. I have now come to believe that’s just how humans are, and I do better to remember that and act accordingly.
Long ago I had a dear friend who was in an emotional state that I just couldn't handle. I distanced her during that period because it was simple more than I could handle. My H tells me that when he sees my hurt it is more than he can handle because he knows that he was the cause of that pain--I can sympathize, had I been a contributor to my friends pain it would have been unbearable to me. The good news is that my friend is still one of my best friends (since I was 4 years old!).
In this way the big lesson out of all this has been realizing that all I really have is me and that HP. And every moment I’m living in that awareness the wounded part is connected to the strong part. It still hurts but I don't try to put the hurt back on my H, like I read on the Forgiveness site (and have seen to be true) passing hurt back and forth just intensifies it. I let it stop with me.
At least I know the goal. Hopefully those moments of awareness will be closer together and longer: I'll live what I know!
[ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: alottolearn ]
Dinner with my coworker and his wife went very well. Definitely one of those experiences where I can say, yes things are getting better. I should hasten to add that I've also learned to expect times when it appears that my H is going out of his way to be hurtful. I do tell him about those experiences but am learning how to 1. not let it throw me and to 2. express myself in increasingly constructive ways.
So we had a very nice time. My H was helpful in getting ready. At one point I asked for help and he couldn't have been nicer about pitching in. For the first time in our married life things were so ready that I got to visit with the company almost as much as he did. This is a very appreciated improvement.
This was one of those moments that you write on the calendar in red and remember on a not so good day. Lots to be very thankful for.
This is a very good thread. A lot of insight into what goes in. I like the Dance we all are doing. I am still struggling with the possibility that in the end he still may walk away.
*** I suppose when you do something that changes the dance, then you are in the lead. If you are changing things for the better then you're DBing. Even a spouse whose running away is still dancing. ***
I really like the above. It is good that even though we are the ones left behind (in a way) sometimes we can still LEAD THE DANCE. As long as the WS is open to the dance the chances are there.
