Okay the good news is My H is looking forward to us making our lists of our needs and going over them tonight during our solution oriented talk. He has his list ready! I still am at a loss as to what my needs are!!! I told him I thought we could just go through work book together at the end of the five love languages book. Maybe I should stick the DB book in the bathroom for him to read as well, being he never did finish it. we could work on that together as well. Why is it so incredilby hard to figure out my needs??? I keep comming up with things I need him to stop doing... can I list those? I am going to go over some of my old threads, I just wanted to get a new one started since my "Guys, help me understand my H" has gotten so long and that crisis has come to an end pretty much as far as the fight and now its time to move forward with solutions. okay I have really put no info here for those that dont know my story, but Chris does so Chris, when you dont have a job you can give me some thoughts from our past exchanges maybe? I am going to work on figure things out more today though.
right now one of my biggest problems is just getting him to understand what I am saying and not twisting it to mean something else then not believeing me when I explain.
this is an exerpt from my other thread:
" He just does not know how convert his feeling for you in the actions and behaviors that are positive in your eyes. HE WILL NEED YOUR HELP." (from Chris's post)
I dont know how to comunicate it in a way that he wont twist it to mean something else. I try to give examples of how I react in similar situations that are reversed, and point out that I would like the same courtesy in return. He just says well he is not me and thinks and feels diferently. My counselor said the same thing. So I feel kind of stuck there.
Glad you posted over here. I even started to feel confrontational over in newcomers. Not that anybody was saying anything that was not "right". It just really does not get down to getting things on track. I too feel concerned about your personel safety and actually I trust you to know what your limits are there.
Your needs?
I think it is important that you both realize that there are needs that each of have met outside your relationship. This is healthy.
From your posts you do seem to get overwhelmed by the events of the day. How can your H help? Think about what would make you feel better. Would it be better if you did not feel judged by your H when he came howm from work? This then could be turned into a specific positve. Your H could compliment you as soon as he steps in the door. No complaints, No fixes, just something like "It's good to be home".
The calls throughout the day are very important to your H. It carries him through and gives him strength to get through a job that he does not like but provides for you and the kids.
Find away to make sure that he does get through.
Set up schedule for any being on-line and agree to it with your H.
Tell him tonight that you will like help from discovering all your needs. Talk about them and openly and brainstorm solutions.
I do hear you when you say you feel stuck. Ask your H for help.
Sue, It took me a couple of months to figure out what was important to me. Don't get frustrated it will come. Do try to involve your H.
One thing that you might want to consider is setting some specific goals (DB has a good chapter on this). Try some solutions for a week and reevaluate how you both have done.
Sue its good to have you over here.
Chris
[This message has been edited by ChrisJ (edited 12-09-1999).]
Ok, now that I think I have myself clarified (see my stragler post to your old thread), I think I may have some insight to determining your needs.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that your having problems defining your needs, because your definitions have no meaning. To illustrate what I mean look at the following examples.
I want to be happy. I want to feel wanted. I want to feel appreciated. I want to be satisfied.
Is that the kind of answers you are comming up with? If so, that is your problem and it is a sticking point for a huge number of people. The above 'needs' have no substance, no 'meat'. They are just 'fat' or 'fillers'.
What I mean by that is that the words 'happy', 'satisfied' etc are subjective, they have no 'formal' meaning. Everyones perception of those terms differ and therefor if you state your goals in that sence, you are selling yourself short.
You need to break needs/desires down further and that is where many people get stuck. "how can I break it down farther, I want to be happy, how hard is that to understand" many may reply. Well, what I am getting at is the state of happiness need to be clearly defined. I cant ask you what makes you happy becuase the meaning of happy can vary from minute to minute. Instead be very specific and define what happy is. You need to ask yourself how happy feels, what it looks like and what it sounds like, and in addition, you need to put things things in terms you have control over which can be very hard to do since we often think others have a huge affect on our happiness. We need to create an achievable outcome under our control.
Here is another way to look at goals that seem out of your control. Lets say one of the things you look to accomplish is to change your husband, so he is not always late. You are tired of appologizing to hosts and having to sit in the front row at the movies for arriving late. If you could magically change him this instant so he was no longer late, what would that do for you? How does this change the way about your evening now that you are no longer late? ARe you more relaxed, smile more, softer less iritated voice? What his change in behaviour has done is change your attitude and your mood. You would be feeling the way you want to feel. The above exapmle is not feasable of course since you cant change your H, but there is still a lot you can do. You start by changing the desired outcome of one where you change your husband (since you cant) to something under your control such as the goal of feeling more relaxed and calm when you go out with your husband. Now simply think of ways to achive that goal since you actually have control over it.
The above stuff is the kind of thing I find very lacking in all of the relationship books I have read. Defining your needs and change is very specific and the process to do so, control yourself and propel yourself to your goals after identifying them is scarcley touched upon. That is one of the main reasons I have delved into psychology and various self help studies, they complete the tool kit for reconciliation and success in life.
Have you ever heard of the saying, "give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime"?
Well, when we 1st came here we were looking for someone to give us a fish. We have since learned to fish and are eating, but there is more too it. Our fishing poles, lines and hooks will not last forever. We still need to learn to make those things so we can continue fishing and feeding ourselves for a lifetime.
Anyways, I hope that was easy enough to understand
Ayg the Zealot.
Zyg the Zealot.
Your goal is your dream, your outcome moves you toward it.
Zyg, thanks! my problem is not that I come up with vague anwsers like those, its that I am trying to get the perfect detailed answer imediately. Perhaps if I start vague then I can go from there like fine tuning a rough draft! thanks.
Sue, Ask yourself the question, "What will my husband be DOING when I feel _____(happier, more respected, more understood?" What are the behaviors? IF I were a fly on the wall in your house, what would i see the 2 of you DOING when you feel you are on track. Would he be complimenting you, sitting down and watching television with you in the evenings, and so on.. What will he be doing differently when you feel better about your marriage?
Also, read the section in DB about the miracle question. that should help you as well. Don't tell him what you are unhappy about, tell him what you rather have happen instead. When you discuss what you're not happy about, men take it as criticism and they often shut down. You don't want this to happen, so be positive. "when you do ___, it makes me feel good." That goes a lot farther.
If he twists things, it just means you need to explain it in a different way. Don't get mad or frustrated. Just try again. When your kids don't understand something you're saying, you don't take it personally, you try again. The same theory applies. Good luck Michele
Michele, thanks! I have been thinking of those questions and for me I am happy as long as he is not mad at me. I cant say my need is for you not to get mad at me when I let him down.
if you saw my thread in Newcommers "Guys, help me understand my H" you can see how he dosnt understand what I say and when I try to explain it diferently he says he dosnt believe thats what I meant but what I was saying and insists I meant it how he interpreted it. I really dont feel like there is anything specific he can do for me to make me "happy" I am happy most of the time.
there are ways he reacts in situations that I cant stand, and when I try explain how I would prefer he react then he tells me I am expecting him to think like me and behave like me and he dosnt and cant. He is very explosive and dwells, I am not. He thinks that when I dont get all wound up and react like him it means I dont care and I do care, I just do not see the point in blowing up over everything, I tend to slow down and think about the situation, more of the Serenity prayer kind of attitude. I think he is very mellowdramatic and he thinks I am just too unemotional and analitical. However I know he apreciates my attitude when he is the one that screws up I wish he could reciprocate that attitude to me when I screw up.
What I take personally about him twisting what I say is when he refuses to believe me when I explain it diferently for him to understand. I have asked him to tell me how to say certain things to him so he will understand what I mean. For ex. when he cant find something (he can never find anything!) he naturally asks me. The way I look for things is I first figure out the last place it was seen and try to retrace steps from there. This infuriates him he feels its telling him he is on his own. like recently he was looking for something and the last time I had seen it was in his hands saying to me oh good we have more of this. so I asked him if he remembers where he set it down after that and he decided I was saying you were the last one with it so its your problem not mine and thats how I get out of helping. when I explained to him thats how I start when I look for something I cant find etc. he said I was lieing and he then repeated what I said, except he completely changed the words and the tone to sound like how he interpreted it. I said no thats not how I said or meant it I reiterated again what I said and meant by it expalining it as I said it and he said I dont believe you why esle would anyone say ____? So I ask for him to tell me how to say it so we dont continue to have this problem and he refused just kept insisting on I was lieing. basically this how it seems to go most of the time and its so incredibly frustrating to constantly have things you say changed and then told your lieing and thats that.
I almost wrote you to ask you to read my crisis but I did get a lot of great suport and advice and the thread is incredibly long.
Unfortunatly we are not the best ones to help you understand your H, because most of us have grown, we have seen the effort you have put forth and we are on you side. Therefor we can not truely relate to your H, especially since many of us were never that bad.
As to your needs, no need to rush. Pose a question and let it sit. For example, I often post part of my feelings one day but wont complete my thoughts till a few days later. This is because, like you, I ask my self a question one day, but the answer may hit me many days later. I get struck by lightning on an almost regular basis. The clarity hits me out of the blue and I make notes of everything.
I simply hope you understand my stance on your safety, physical abuse is one of my weak spots. My mother was beaten before my eyes at a time I was too young to do anything about it. Now I simply disdain those that feel physical violence is the key, especially in a supposed marriage, that is simply unacceptable to me. I just wanted to make sure you know that my main concern is in your personal safety first.
I have faith in you Sue, you have a strength within you I can sense from your posts that very few people have, but as in everything, balance is the key. Unselfish giving can lead to resentment if not carefully monitored and that scenario is no good either.
I just hope your H reasizes the truely rare treasure he has in you before it is too late.
Zyg the Zealot.
Zyg the Zealot.
Your goal is your dream, your outcome moves you toward it.
Zyg, I know and I hear you. It must be very hard to deal with those memories. I hate what my kids have seen. He didnt "beat" me but he was pretty rough when he lost control of his rage and the kids saw some ugly seens that were quite scarey for them and I get angry at myself for not leaving when I should have but that time is past now and I have let it go. I wont go back! I do get frightend when he gets angry because there were so many times when he was so angry he almost choked me to death, I think having that past will make me get scared more easily and I am sure it will take time for that to go away completely if at all. Just like your sore spot with that issue because of your past experience with it, it will always be a sensitive issue for you even though that time is over with. I believe anyone can change if they want to and I know he wants to and inspite of where he is at now, I can see he has come a very long ways in the last year and half, if he can go that much farther in the next year and half the rest of our lives could be wonderful.
I have to know I gave my all. Just like you were talking about in the "hell" thread. You cant just give up saying well theres nothing we can do, we have to try and do what we perceive to be the impossible because there is so much at steak. If were just about me, I would go, because I got really tired of being the one paying for his lessons a long time ago, but I dont want the kids to be paying for more.
okay we didnt have a chance to have our talk last night, too much going on with the kids. I did however get a chance to tell him what my thoughts were about attacking some of our biggest problems that cause chaos in the house, first then working down towards the smaller things. We discussed on how to handle these things and are going to start doing those things right away. I have made some plans of my own regarding my online time, I didnt however share them with him, because then he gets upset anytime I slip from my set goal so its my problem Iam going to keep to myself for awhile and really try to enforce those goals. So I do have more time to make my list
I don't have any advise this morning mostly because I think that it is only a matter of time now.
One thing that has worked for me in the past is to schedule some time to really think. For me that time is when I run. About 15 minutes into my run I start to get to get alot of clarity in my thoughts. Its not that it was not there, it's more stripping away the things that don't matter.
I also weight train but thats less thought provoking and more about taming my aggression beast.
Michele's post had me thinking about my situation. For us whenever we are doing just about anything together we are happy. This would work except that for my W right now (and the filter she has on) its not enough. She says that she could be doing this as roomates. I think she is waiting for a "love obbsession" to mysteriously return. Perhaps it has returned but for me and not for her!
Sue I like your idea about the on-line schedule. I also think it is important to communicate more openly about it. Maybe its a bit like the pants... Its not so important how long and when you are on-line but that you validate your h's feelings regarding your on-line time. He is not critical of you not sticking to a schedule, he just wants to feel heard.
Funny I thought I said I did not not have any advise today
you can give me some thoughts from our past exchanges maybe? I am going to work on figure things out more today though.