Starting to get it.... my 3rd thread

[DaveJ]

ann25, do you think he's just looking for attention? Sounds like he's making up excuses to interact with you. It could be he's feeling extremely insecure about the R due to the EA. Do you know what his primary love language is? I'm wondering if it's physical affection.... And it could be his way of trying to get validation and connection from you. I know I was a bit like that after discovering the EA from my W.

[ann25]

Craig - I can see it, you can see it, he just can't... Part of me thinks that when we get through this and he accepts it as part of our past and can start trying to forgive me, that i'll probably start being more attracted to him. Right now, it's getting annoying.

Dave - Hi! I know for a fact that he's trying to get attention. I actually think that his LL is WOA and PA. He wouldn't read the book, so that is my best shot... I know he's feeling insecure. He's been feeling that way since long before the EA only i didn't realize it then. then it was just him being mean and hurtful and accusing me of cheating. Now I realize it's been insecurity all along. I am constantly reassuring him, that i love him, that I'm not going anywhere. He said he doesn't trust anything I say. He said that last night. I know it's only been 4 and a half months since the EA ended, but for me, it's already been 4 and a half months. The EA is never justified or excusable and he has as much time as he needs to be able to get past it and forgive, but He asked for D. He started living out of his office, he hurt me over and over again for over a year and I wanted to work on it, he wanted out. Then he came back and said he didn't want D.

Now i can't do anything right. Nothing I do seems to help and if anything starts a fight. I'm running out of things to try and just about running out of the will power to keep trying. I'm certainly not going anywhere, but I really don't see our M getting out of this hole until he is able to start working on him. -

Sorry Dave... just venting. I really do try to be encouraging to him and thank him and tell him nice things. He does get physical affection from me, back and foot rubs/massages, running my fingers through his hair, stuff like that. Sex is not like it used to be, but as much as i can give (and sometimes more) for right now. Is there anything that your W did after EA that helped you get past the insecurities? Anything you think I could do? I really want to help him any way i can!

[DaveJ]

ann25, I'm envious that you are willing to put in the work to make things work. I wish my W would. My W still refuses to admit that the EA was cheating, although she did say it was inappropriate and it's over. Of course she filed for D so it really doesn't matter anymore ATM. I made a choice to forgive her and let it go. But I would kick the crap out of the OM any day though. He's a scumbag. It's tough at times but I'm doing it for me. It took me a long time to not get LOTS of anxieties when she's on the phone or she's texting, or she's on the computer. I still sometimes do. But I made the decision that if I can't trust her then this relationship can't work no matter what. I don't snoop either because it just kills my PMA and makes me paranoid. If she's doing something she shouldn't be doing, the R would be over anyways and it's out of my control. Trust takes a LONG time to rebuild and it's a constant effort in changing your thinking...

He has to do it on his own and only if he wants to. I you can ask him to think about what makes him feel insecure and what you can do to reassure that. Constant reassurance and patience is critical I think. Go out of your way to be accountable to him where you are and what you do maybe. It may seem silly and annoying to you but it probably helps him knowing that you are making an effort in reassuring him. Like telling him where you going, where you been, who you talking to on the phone, texting, and etc. Eventually he may just ask you to stop. Maybe make an effort in offering to spend quality time with him? Just try different things and do what works for you. As far as physical affection goes, I think the frequency counts as well, doesn't have to be anything big. A hug, a kiss, a touch on the shoulder. And if you think about it, he's probably doing things to you what he thinks might make himself feel loved. Perhaps experiment a little and replicate similar things that he's doing to you and see what kind of responses you get.

Oh yeah, the biggest thing you can do to make him feel secure is make him feel like he is priority #1. For example, if you are having a conversation with him, eye contact and give him complete attention. If you are on the phone and he calls, you drop the other call and tell them you'll call them back and talk to your H. Not the other way around. It tells him he is important to you above all else. My W does all the opposite and makes me feel like I mean absolutely nothing to her, even less than a stranger on the street. Give it a try and let me know how that works out for ya. :P Good luck!

[Heimlich]

Ann,

Just wanted to poke in and say that you're awesome and I'm going to nominate you for Sainthood for dealing with your H's insecurities.

Sounds like he was starting to grow up a little after the weekend, but has begun to backslide.

I can't think of anything beyond what you're doing to do. You give him love and affection that most of us would kill for. As Dom as said, don't stop standing up for yourself. If you do, you'll eventually become less than you are now or just walk in the future.

You feel like a piece of meat because he's treating you like one. Don't stand for it. He needs to learn to treat you as a man would. Keep guiding him along.

BD

[Dom R]

This was him more asking about other times. For instance, i'm doing dishes or getting something out of the fridge and he comes up behind me and squeezes something, slides a hand down my pants or grinds himself up against me etc..
....
It all feels like it's just his way of saying "MINE".

well, here's where I have something on your side....

In his mind, you had an affair. you betrayed him.
To help him recover from that, it's important that you GIVE him, ways that make him feel like you are "HIS".

Rejecting him, and fighting him on this, or resenting him about a RE-action, to your action, is going to drive you apart.

The fastest path to healing his side of things, would be for you to try to force yourself to do a 180. To accept, and even welcome these things. To validate him. To say "yes, I am yours".
That would majorly help rebuild up feelings of trust with him, and help relieve his insecurities.

The more you fight it, the more he probably feels he needs it, and so the more he will do it.
Contrariwise, the more you go with it, and validate him.. the sooner he will feel reassured and mellow out with it.

If you are right about him doing it to feel the "MINE" factor, that is.
If it's just because he's horney, that's different but I think you could be right about your first feeling there.

I told him, it's not even so bad, but everytime it's the same thing. If he would come in and give me a little kiss and hug instead everyonce and a while, i probably wouldn't be so put off, but the other stuff. I don't know what would make me feel loved. I think i really need to figure that out.

sounds like you just told him.

Maybe the best thing would be if he could do both on a regular basis

And I think again, the "puppy training factor" could be put into effect.

The next time he grabs you, try asking him, "gimme a kiss, sexy".
Then, he will.
Which may also help you feel better.
Ask for what you need, and you will likely get it. Just as long as you are "asking" in "right now" mode.
(sense a trend in my posts to you? )

I told H last night that if he wanted to see a C that i could help him find one. He said MC didn't work. I told him that I understand that he feels that way. I was talking about just for him because I was thinking of going again on my own to help me and if he was interested, I'd help him, he should just let me know. he didn't like that, but he really needs it and i said it, so oh well.

If he doesnt want to see a counsellor, then you telling him effectively, "your head is messed up, you need to go see a professional"... is a major insult to him.
I think it would be best if you completely dropped that whole line of things for him. Yes, you think it would benefit him. The thing is, if he doesnt think so, or doesnt want it, then he could sit in front of one for hours, and get nothing out of it.
It's his choice. you cant "make him go", and even if you could, you wouldnt get the results you would like to see.

Best to drop it, and work on you.
You can only control you.

[fb2]

Ann, You are trying so hard and trying everything you can think of so I'm sure you will see the light at the end of the tunnel some day soon if you find what switch to turn on.

There seems to be a catch 22 here ... You do not find him attractive because he's insecure. And you've got to get him to feel secure so you'll find him attractive.

So some questions (pardon me if you've already answered them in your threads): Why did H file the D? What was he feeling insecure about before then? Is there something besides the EA that also contributes to his insecurity now? What attracted you to H in the first place?

[sandi2]

Immediately after EA, H made me have sex with him. It wasn't at gun point or anything, but I was hardly in a position to say no and i would have. It hurt like hell and I cried the whole time and he eventaully stopped. I let him do what he wanted. I know (for some reason) that he needed that. I just laid there in bed and cried. He said a simple sorry after he was done and never said anything about it afterwards and I did my very best to forget about it.

Am I the only one that noticed this? This man raped her! I do not agree with those who keep saying to do this and to do that for this man to feel better about the relationship and about himself. He is an ass and he is treating her like crap! No woman should have to endure what he is doing to her. It is disrespectful and demeaning. He is constantly punishing her and she is constantly kissing his feet to make up for her terrible sin! How much is she suppose to take? I don't think she will ever be able to do enough, be sorry enough, or give him enough sex (or I should say him force sex upon her) b/c he is not going to get past this. He doesn't want to get past it and move on. He is obsessed with it and the only thing that makes him feel better is to treat her like a piece of meat.

DomR, I am really disappointed in you advising her to allow him to "take" what he wanted until he was satisfied that she truly belonged to him. This is not quoting you but in general that is what you said. The woman can barely stand to have him touch her now b/c of the way he has treated her. I believe that she has gone far beyond what is expected and if anything is going to be left of "her"....she needs to get away from him and save herself! Perhaps time away from him would force him to wake up and realize that he needs to be the one to grow up, be a man and forgive his wife and start treating her like she deserves to be treated.

I don't know, but sometime I think the W could do everything and anything and some men would keep on telling them to do this and do that "for the husband" so he would feel good about the R. Is there anything a man could do to a woman that would justify her leaving him? Oh some will say, "Of course.....abuse would justify her to leave". Well, if he hasn't abused her already.......it's mighty close in my POV.

What if instead of the 180 that some of the men have suggested that would "help her husband"......she decided to throw the rape in his face everytime he tried to throw some reminder of her EA in her face. That would be quite some 180, wouldn't it? Maybe it would shut him up for a while. Sure, some will try to say, "Oh it wasn't really rape". Well, go back and read, again, very slowly, what Ann said.

Ann, I don't know why you keep trying to hang in there and be treated like that.....you are worth too much for this. He is destroying your self-respect and any esteem you might have.

[Atlas]

Ann,

(((ANN))), I have to agree with Sandi on this one. I just caught up with you and that is not good. He needs some major issues worked out in his head. First the rape of his wife, then he wants you to tattoo his name on you. He sees you as property. Your a wonderful person, a loving mother and deserve better. If he is unwilling to do as you ask, then get him out of the house and get a protective order in place.

You need to be upfront with him and tell him why. Also, I would suggest having your father, brother, a friend or something in the house when you do this. He was sexually violent once, that is a step beyond physical violence, so I wouldn't risk it. Maybe do it in a public place, a starbucks or something.

Oh dear, this is deeper then I thought. You need a plan sweet girl. You shouldn't have to put up with this.

[SameButDifferent]

I think i might have realized a part of the reason why... Immediately after EA, H made me have sex with him. It wasn't at gun point or anything, but I was hardly in a position to say no and i would have. It hurt like hell and I cried the whole time and he eventaully stopped. I let him do what he wanted. I know (for some reason) that he needed that. I just laid there in bed and cried. He said a simple sorry after he was done and never said anything about it afterwards and I did my very best to forget about it.

Ann,

I'm just catching up with your thread, and I'm VERY concerned about this situation. Having this piece of contect changes a lot about how I would approach the situation:

1. I think your approach may be inappropriate. By this I mean you see changing the way you communicate with him as a '180' but in his mind it's still pressure. Consider a COMPLETE no expectations commitment on your part.

2. I think a true 180 for you might be to stand up for yourself completely. You were essentially raped, and even if you've forgiven it (which I respect tremendously) the fact that you haven't completely shut down similar behavior since (groping, 'just climbing on expecting you to be ready', etc.) is just perpetuating acceptance.

It will take a HUGE amount of conviction on your part, but a statment like: "If you want any affection/intimacy from me, you're going to have to build it WITH me. If you choose to continue to do those things, I will not be intimate with you. If you choose to learn how to treat me like a lover, I may." Be prepared for a significant level of response. Also be prepared to stick to your guns, approach it 'one day at a time' if you have to.

From an intimacy standpoint, maybe this is also a LRT, but it could have some other consequences:

Consider that he's insecure about where he stands with you. In his subconscious, maybe he's wondering: 'If she lets me do whatever I want, why should I think she doesn't let some OM do whatever he wants?'

I know you've tried to 'communicate' that these things are uncomfortable. That hasn't worked. It's time to do something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!

You're an incredibly strong woman to have made it through all of this - keep up the great conviction, but PLEASE consider that what you're doing is still focused a LOT on changing him.

[SameButDifferent]

Quick note: As I continue to catch up, I notice others have similar concerns. As someone said, please make CERTAIN you have physical support within a VERY SHORT distance if/when you choose to address this.

Past disrespect for normal boundaries is not a good precedent.