Checking back in: Well, our D20 just went back to college after fall break. I think she had a nice break--we went to Washington, saw a movie, she went to a tango class and practica with me (Wow, she's a natural! Which will serve her well on a semester abroad in Argentina...)
OK, here is the thing that is bothering me: (sorry for the long story)
H came over on Thursday, so we could all have dinner together at home, out in the country. It was a nice dinner, nothing too heavy, and H and D enjoyed each other's company.
Then, Friday, D and I packed the car to go camping at a music festival in the mountains. On the way there, H called to say he was planning to work on the barn on Sunday, so would it be OK if he spent Saturday night, while we were gone. I said OK, but it seemed like assuming a lot (but on the other hand, maybe he needed some time/opportunity to see/miss his home, on his own time.)
Well, I made the stupid mistake of not buying tickets before the online sales closed, and--you guessed it--by the time we got to the festival, they were sold out, and we had turn around and drive home Friday night. (D was really nice about it--that is how I know that she is really turning into a good adult!)
So, we turn around and drive all the way home, only to find out that H has set up to spend the night on the farm on Friday night (not Saturday, as planned), without telling me. We drive up the road, and see lights on in the house, front door open, etc. and sheepish H, who thought that we were hours away. His excuse is that one of the neighbors called his cell to say that there was a dog that looked like one of ours, injured on the road, so he came out to check. (which I appreciate, but he also brought his clothes, his toiletries, his laundry, his guitar. Hmmm. Thankfully, it was not our dog.)
He ended up spending the night on Friday. (yes, I agreed. Is this a mistake? That is part of what this is getting at...)
He worked on the farm the next day (Saturday). I agreed that he could invite close friends--a couple--and our S17 for dinner Saturday night, and we ate outside in the beautiful fall evening, with little lights strung up on the patio, and candles. It was a very nice evening. He did leave Saturday evening, and took our S back to school (public boarding school).
H was back Sunday. I drove D to the airport, and H worked on the barn. I helped with that for a while, at his request, and then I worked in the garden, weeding, until dark. Finally, we are all alone, and we ate dinner, went to bed, and you guessed it, again.
OK, this is my question, finally: How should I handle this situation? Yes, I want my H back, but he is depressed, has not said ILY, or that he wants to come back--he just seems to want to spend time here, without discussing it (not that I want to hear a repeat of the MLC stuff, which is why I don't try to discuss it, either). There is a part of me that resists this treatment. Am I being a fool?
I am happy that he seems drawn to me, but I still feel hurt by the mean things he has said to me over the last year, none of which he has apologized for, or even alluded to...I know that I could hold my breath and die, if I am holding out for an apology.
And, to be fair, he has shown little glimmers of empathy for me, and a renewed appreciation of the life we could have together (even mentioning traveling around the world together, when we retire, IF we are together.) I have been pretty quiet in response to most of this, mostly because I don't actually trust that he is "there" yet, but I will say something like "I know what you mean."
I am trying to have no expectations, but I can't help but think about what I would say if he mentioned moving back. Should I just say "yes" and open my arms? Should I insist on some MC, first? Should I tell him that I need a commitment, first?
Of course, he may not ask for months, or longer, if at all. I get that! But something tells me he is getting pretty tired of living in the uninspiring little apartment, and "home is where you go, when you have no other place to go."
I know that I am really lucky that he did not hook up with an OW. I know that it is too early for me to invite him home (or is it?), but what if he asks?
Please, anyone, give me your 2 cents. All of the feedback I have gotten on this board has been helpful--some of it really helped alter my perspective!
OK, folks, I confess that when I start worrying about something, I am like a terrier chewing on a piece of gristle: (lovely, huh?)
Here is what I am thinking--my H has never been very good at self-scrutiny, or communication. For me to hold out for that is a little silly at this point, given everything. If he wants to ease back into being home, perhaps I should just let him do it, without putting up barriers, or insisting that he do it on my terms.
On the other hand, if it plays out that way, are we just setting ourselves up for failure? (If he came home and then moved out again, I do not think that I would be able to resist the urge to kick him to the curb!)
Oh well, life is strange, and I do not know what the future holds. Thoughts?
First, I wouldn't make a big thing about him being there when you got home Friday. What would it gain for you.
Regarding home is where the heart is, I agree with you. He like being there. And from what I can tell, he loves his family. And there sure seems to be some love for you.
As for your what if about coming home, I understand that you don't want to rush and all you can do is be open and honest and say what is on your mind. And if you need someone to mediate the discussion, by all means, do it.
In your first post, you did say he knew he had some frowing up to do. It is big that he admitted it and his actions are of a man who wants to be around. I can't crawl in his head regarding why he can't say ILY, but then he really doesn't love himself right now, so it makes sense that he can't say it to you.
Just relax. He needs the time. He needs the space and you want to make sure you are on the way to having things fixed before he moves back.
IMP, You are right about not making a big thing out of something small. I have finally learned to keep my mouth shut and not go with my first reaction to something, and--amazingly--it has helped. So I didn't say anything on Friday and we ended up having a good (if confusing) weekend. It even ended on a magical note, with a stunning sunrise that we watched together from the front steps.
I will try to relax--as you can probably tell, patience is a challenge for me! However, I have reached the conclusion that patience is an absolute prerequisite to wisdom. (As my son lovingly tells me, "take a chill pill, Mom!")
Thank you for your reply--I am appreciative of the opportunity to lay out my issues, here, with others who really get it!
Glad your son said that. If I said that, I would get jumped on.
FG, anyone who has ever come here knows the feeling of impatience. You just have to focus on the positive. Maybe when you feel impatient, just think of the sunrise you shared.
Well, folks, it has been a really jerky ride, and I am back for more advice (please).
H has been around a lot, talks about the future in a conditional sense ("if I come back...")
We have been getting along fairly peacefully, mostly because I don't react to things, and I do appreciate that he does things around home, doesn't seem so angry, seems to appreciate me more, etc.
So here is my big problem--he still says he wants to "date" other women, and has started to do so. He told me that he took one woman out to a movie, but it didn't go further. (OK, I shouldn't have asked...) There is some other woman he met in a bar, who showed some interest in him, gave him her phone number, and that he is in lust with. He seems to have the idea that he can pursue other women, and still keep me at home in reserve.
I am letting myself get so jerked around! (I am jerking myself around!) I had gotten the impression that maybe he had decided not to do this because he wants to spend a lot of time with me (maybe 3 nights a week), but this morning it came up again.
He asked me (again) if I wanted to go as a family on a 4 day trip to visit some of his relatives for Christmas. I had told him before that I didn't feel like that would be a good idea, when we are separated and he is "dating". So, when he asked me about it again, I went ahead and pointed to the elephant in the room, and asked him if that meant he had changed his mind about "dating." (No.)
I am afraid that in a sick way I am encouraging this behavior by being so available to him when he wants to spend time together.
Is it time to pull way back? There is something powerful about the fact that he at least talks to me now, and seems to be attracted to me again (thanks, DBing!)
Our kids will be home for Christmas. Our S17 comes home today. Our D20 will be home next week. In all, I will have one or the other kid home for the next month. I am so looking forward to having them around--we have always had a good relationship. I am so afraid of rocking the boat and affecting their peace of mind.
I feel sort of like a doormat--the at home, reliable fallback plan. But I am afraid to do something too radical...
(By the way, I have come a long way. My H keeps saying how I have changed and how attractive that is. Or, as he put it this morning, my "stock has been going up." In addition to losing weight, I have dropped the anger, and have found ways to feel happy again.)
I get discouraged about how crazy this all seems, how stuck in limbo I am, etc.
I have another big question that has to do with what I am willing to live with. He seems so incapable of relaxed intimacy, now and in the past. The classic MO is passive aggression. I want to feel loved, and appreciated, and to be treated tenderly. Is there real hope that I can handle myself in a way that keeps that possibility open? He did tell me he loves me. There are baby steps. But, at this point, is it perhaps more appropriate to withdraw to preserve my dignity, and perhaps have him feel a little of what he could lose?
Sorry, folks, I am at that pacing the floor point, and I so want to be on an even keel for the holiday.
Did I mention that he has scheduled minor knee surgery for the Dec. 21, I guess on the theory that I will take him to surgery, and take care of him afterwards? This is all making me so crazy, because I know how I feel, but I don't know how to act.
Help! Advice appreciated!
M 52 H 52 M 29 years D20 S17 (both away at school) "trial separation" Sept. 07
I have a bad case of the crazies--I am so obsessed about what to do.
Does it seem like he is doing/saying these things to get my emotions churned up? I have been so "good"--not getting mad, listening, etc. It seems as though he either is trying to control me, or to prove to himself that he has the power, or prove to himself that I care, or all of the above, or WHAT?
This is asking a lot--please, someone, tell me what to do!
(Of course, the sane corner of my brain knows what I would tell a friend in this situation--it is so hard to take our own good advice!)
What would happen if, the next time he talked about dating, you did too? Or just hinted, as in "Tomorrow? Sorry, I've got plans to meet a "friend" for dinner. What? No, you don't know him."
Have flowers delivered to your house. Let him run into you all dressed up as if for a date and heading out the door.
Hi Ellie, Thanks for your reply. It is funny--I did step back a little a few weeks ago, and he immediately assumed I was dating. His response was to ask a woman out to a movie. I know it sounds like "enabling" or something, but I am afraid that his response to me stepping back is to feel rejected and like he "needs" to go out with someone else.
This after almost 30 years of marriage!
I have thought about "adopting the posture of indifference" after my constant availability (sp?). Maybe it would be smart for me to give him the impression that he may be losing me, without being mean or rejecting. Just pleasant and distant.
Any thoughts? I am so afraid to rock the boat, but maybe it is time to lose my fear (now that I have mostly lost the anger).
The good news: Hi everyone. I have not posted much, but I want to let you all know that DBing worked!
It is still too early to pop the cork, but after 30 years of marriage, 2 years of crazy MLC, 1 year of living apart, H is home, we are going to MC, and we are getting better and better.
I remember feeling desperate, scared, humiliated, heartbroken, etc. My H was the classic alien, discounting our lives together, full of regrets (about getting married "too young", etc.), saying he didn't love me "enough" to stay with me, etc. He was also obviously clinically depressed, irritable, kind of an a-hole.
I just want anyone else who is in this situation to know that there is hope. I don't think I would necessarily be here today without DBing.
Here are a few things that worked. 1. Stopped saying ILY.
2. Stopped calling without a good reason, and got off the phone quickly.
3. Was always welcoming when he came home, to work around the farm. I told him several times how much I appreciated his help, sincerely.
4. I planted gardens and made home more beautiful than ever...
5. I started dancing, a lot! I took lessons in Argentine tango, swing dance, waltz, etc. I went at least once a week to contra dances (the easiest to learn, and very good exercise.)
I went to dances alone, or with a girlfriend. This kept me away from the phone, got me in physical shape, and let me have friendly physical contact with nice men. (good for the self esteem, too!)
Now that H has moved home, he is actually taking lessons, himself! However, we have the understanding that I can go dancing without him, and I do. (He is always invited, however, if he doesn't want to go, I have plenty of fun without him!) At my age (youthful 53), partner dancing is not a pick-up scene, but might be a good way for singles to meet...
6. I lost weight on "the divorce diet" and got way more physically active. Yes, men are shallow (sorry, guys!) and yes, it made a major difference. I started wearing eyeliner and a little more makeup and dressing sexier, and walking with more dignity, like a dancer. I think it made him a little jealous, but also proud of me.
7. I did not "date", even though he did. I think he was afraid of losing me, even though he wanted to eat his cake and have it too. However, I did go away for a couple of intense dance weekends, and he probably had to wonder who else was there...
Now, we are going to MC, got a used hot tub (wonderful), and he is working on himself. A real turning point was the book "Radical Acceptance" by Tara Brach, and the antidepressant (for him), which has been a life-saver. (Too bad they seem to have an impact on sexual desire, but I feel hopeful about that one, too...)
Well, it took way, way longer than I ever would have thought, and we are not all the way there, yet. However, now I believe that it is going to be ok.
To those who are still in the middle of this, and don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, I say, "Hang in there!" My friends were appalled at how long I hung in there, but they are happy for me, now. My fantasy is that we will someday renew our vows and have a big party. But, even if that does not happen, I am happy!
