I'm going to try and clarify the fundamental difference in our approaches:
Yours: H can not be trusted, he should be pushed, and made accountable.
Mine: What H does is between him and God, and someday we'll all be made accountable. The big question is, can Heywyre love him the way he is, unconditionally, as Jesus loves us.
Call me naive, call me stupid, call me whatever you want. But you'll never shake my confidence and faith in what miracles come to those who wait, to those who love like Jesus loves.
Do you want a trained animal who'll jump and sit at your command, or a human being that really loves you in return. Two different outcomes requiring two different approaches. Just keep your minds open.
COG, I want to encourage you to search the Scriptures regarding the concept of unconditional love. Here are some of the verses that might be of some service.
In regards to the idea that "The big question is, can Heywyre love him the way he is, unconditionally, as Jesus loves us."
It would be of benefit to know how Jesus loves, wouldn't it? Does Scripture support your idea that it is "unconditional"?
Hebrews 12:6 - For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."
Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
Matthew 18:15 - If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
Lam 2:14 - The visions of your prophets were false and worthless; they did not expose your sin to ward off your captivity. The oracles they gave you were false and misleading.
Rom 2:5,8 - But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed... For those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
These aren't in any particular order, but popped into mind in response to your post.
We are't supposed to browbeat our spouses or fellow humans. But, IMO, we bear great responsibility when we see a fellow Christian heading down a path toward destruction and we sit idly by and say nothing in the guise of loving unconditionally.
If your wife was slowly eating bite after bite of poison and you knew she was destroying her life and therefore negatively impacting her health & life, your life and the lives of your children by doing so - would you think it acceptable to do nothing, say nothing while ascribing it to loving her unconditionally?
Please note, this is meant to be thought provoking not just provoking.
Eidetic memory. I even wanted to become a nun. Not out of any particular devotion, I just liked the idea of sitting around reading books. Then someone told me I'd have to get up at 4:30 am, or something equally horrific, and I scratched that plan.
Hmmmm....yeah, I could see some of the appeal. They tend to live a very long life too. Again hmmmm..... do I see a "long life" and "no man hassles" correlation? I always had very nice nuns. But I only went thru elementary school so maybe they got meaner as you got older. My sisters and brother went through high school and they had some real ball-breakers. LFL
cheekily flip the edge of your plaid skirt with a flourish.
Ahh, if only I had more time... I was just starting to "bloom" in 6th grade when my Catholic gravy train came to halt. Didn't get to experience the full-on "naughty Catholic school girl" image. LFL
According to my fundamentalist brethren, God sends the unbelievers to Hell, a place of eternal torment. If an nerdy adolescent kid with abusive parents that gets beat up all the time in school and doesn't know where to turn commits suicide, his punishment is eternal torment. Doesn't sound like unconditional love to me.
Of course I have a different view of faith than most of the people I live nearby, and have been told often I am going to Hell because of it.
But you are absolutely right in your Bible quotes. Its amazing when you actually READ the Bible, and really explore the nuances of when and where it was written and for whom, you can actually gain a LOT of truth. Unfortunately for most people I know, the only Bible they know are the verses the pastor chooses to read every Sunday morning.
Sorry again if my cynicism is over the top, just had a few bad experiences lately.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Hmmmm....yeah, I could see some of the appeal. They tend to live a very long life too. Again hmmmm..... do I see a "long life" and "no man hassles" correlation?
SHE said it. Not me. *Points at LFL*
No, all the nuns were nice, even in the upper grades. And very patient with this little heathen.
But you are absolutely right in your Bible quotes. Its amazing when you actually READ the Bible, and really explore the nuances of when and where it was written and for whom, you can actually gain a LOT of truth. Unfortunately for most people I know, the only Bible they know are the verses the pastor chooses to read every Sunday morning.
True, true. And a lot of things are simply translated badly. It's often worth it to go back to the original Hebrew, or Greek, etc to catch nuances in meaning.
