I hope good ol' CSW won't mind me stealing his moniker, but I needed a new theme for my topic that reflected the strength and determination that I have, instead of the fears.
I've decided that every marriage (every family, really) needs a hero, and -- at least for now -- it's clearly not going to be my wife.
So I guess that leaves me.
Mission accepted.
We met for lunch today, after she first tried to push it off until early next week, because of D18's graduation tomorrow night, and because of everything else we have going on this week. I remained strong, insisted that we meet, saying "I understand, but we need to talk about this, and next week really isn't going to be any better, so let's do this now."
I at first suggested a park or something, as I haven't really had much of an appetite (the truth is, I hadn't eaten ONE THING for two days, but I didn't tell HER that) and I wanted some privacy and some place where we wouldn't be rushed. We went to Olive Garden anyway, and it was nice. Nice to see her, nice to talk, nice to be vulnerable and to face down some of my demons.
Yes, she asked for "space." Took her awhile to get around to it, and she hemmed an hawed, and didn't really have any clue as to who was going to go where, but I listened, and when she was finished I said
"I understand. And trust me, it would be easier for me, too. You haven't been much fun to be around lately either, and it's hard for me to lie next to you at night and not touch you. The distance would be EASIER for me. (pause) But you said we needed to 'work' at this, and try to 'fix' it, and I don't know of anyone who ever fixed their marriage from the other side of town."
She was skeptical, but we kept talking.
She didn't admit to an EA. I came out and asked her, "Is there someone else?" She said no. I said "I'm not just talking phsyically -- I'm not sure if you've ever heard the term 'emotional affair,' but it's easy to cross the line from friends into telling someone things that should only be shared within a marriage." Then I admitted to having one about 15 years ago (I didn't go into any detail), and how at the time it all felt very innocent, and that I loved the flattery, but that 3 months after it ended, I looked back and thought "Man, how inappropriate." I leaned forward, and told her I was only going to say this once, but that I was going to say it nevertheless.
I said "You are a grown woman, and I cannot make your decisions for you, and there's no doubt I'm hurting here. But I WILL fight for you, and for our marriage, and for our family. And I will insist that you be totally honest with me."
She got the message.
We talked for two hours. We shared our mutual disappointment, and shame, that we let it come to this, and tried to figure out WHY, and we didn't come up with much other than "we keep doing this," and general things like "we don't communicate well."
She agreed to MC, which I also told her was non-negotiable. I told her that I thought it was perhaps the biggest single mistake we made last time, and that I made a mistake in not holding her feet to the fire when she backed out of her commitment to go, and that I wouldn't tolerate that this time.
She agreed, and that's HUGE.
We cried a little (I did my best; I'd give myself a B-), even laughed some. It was more honest communication than we had had in three years.
I got her to put the separation thing on hold, at least as "Step 1", and agree to move it to "Step 2," Step 1 being marriage counselling.
I told her that I made a mistake in not conveying to her the seriousness of my pain of her rejection and lack of affection. I told her that I "told" her, and many times even, but that I have felt that I made a mistake in not grabbing her by the lapels, looking deep into her eyes, and saying "You don't get it. This hurts me. This isn't acceptable. I can't go on like this, and you need to tell me how I can help you reach some compromise on this so that I can have my needs met."
She seemed sad, and apologized for the pain she had caused me.
We wondered what we should tell our kids, and should we tell our families anything. We agreed that we will tell D20 and D18, not by calling some "family meeting" that will freak them out, but by bringing it up in context. (Ex: "What's with all the closed door conversations? You guys are acting strange," or "Why did Daddy send you flowers?" etc., and then saying "Well yes, you do need to know that we're working on some things with our marriage," etc. And tell S14 and S10 nothing at this time.
We talked about the chicken-and-the-egg of our marital dynamic, in that she doesn't ever want to be affectionate with me because I'm distant and angry, and that I am distant and angry because she doesn't ever want to be affectionate with me. I asked her for NO COMMITMENTS OR PROMISES in that regard.
I apologized for "lying" to her about how I felt, in that I acted like I didn't care for her affection these past 3 years. I told her that I lied the night I told D20 and D18 and D18's bff that "I never get jealous." I told her that I do.
We didn't come up with any real answers or even actions (other than the MC, which I will call tomorrow to set up), but I did say that I felt -- considering our track record of procrastination and avoidance -- we needed to put some time limits on this thing, and that I wasn't talking 3 years again, or even one year, or even 6 months. "I mean like this summer," I told her, and that seemed to shock her a little bit that I was suddenly agreeing with HER urgency. That seemed to take her aback somewhat.
We used the "d" word, and we agreed it was a last resort. We talked about our kids, and the future that we wanted for them. She did use too much mention for my comfort about some families we know that have "done it really well," and she kept using the ol' "but it's not better to stay together if you're both MISERABLE, either," and seemed to want me to sign off on that thought.
I stuck with "I think it's preferable that every marriage stay together that CAN stay together, and it's better for everyone involved. But they don't always works, no" and such.
The most emotional she got was when she talked about our kids, naturally, but then she also got choked up when she said (we were having the "space"/separation talk at the time) "I think I need to miss each other again." I asked her what she meant, and she reminded me of a time that I had taken a job promotion out of state, and had to be apart from her and the kids for several months, and she had told me on the phone one night that she "missed my presence." Then she got all choked up and said "Sometimes I want to miss your presence again."
I walked her to her car (she said "you don't have to," and I said very lightly "I know -- I want to. You got a problem with that?" and smiled at her), we hugged, and I told her how much I cared for her. Finally, I said that at first I was "sorry" for sending the e-mail, because I knew how much pain it was going to cause both of us this week (and beyond), but that I WASN'T sorry because I thought that our marriage was worth fighting for.
I sent her a very short text message:
Mrs. Choc,
Thanks for not pushing back our lunch for another day. I know this week is crazy for you, and I appreciated the chance to talk -- and to LISTEN -- about things.
You mean a great deal to me, I hope you know that.
Love,
Choc.
She just replied:
"I'm glad we are at least talking no matter the outcome we owed it to ourselves and the kids"
Eck -- distancing. Time for the Man o' Steel to get to work.
We wondered what we should tell our kids, and should we tell our families anything. We agreed that we will tell D20 and D18, not by calling some "family meeting" that will freak them out, but by bringing it up in context. (Ex: "What's with all the closed door conversations? You guys are acting strange," or "Why did Daddy send you flowers?" etc., and then saying "Well yes, you do need to know that we're working on some things with our marriage," etc. And tell S14 and S10 nothing at this time.
This kind of discussion about the kids' reactions to what they might be picking up in the house ( and how to handle it) is simply responsible stuff. My hat's off to both of you for putting this into the equation. You don't often read here about people considering what's going on for the kids.
You ( both) have my respect and best wishes for a successful outcome.
She said the kids were her FIRST concern, and it was actually the only "promise" she made me make, on any topic -- that we would keep them foremost. It was ahead of her own happiness, and her own concern for me, and I agreed.
Your right, she is still trying to distance. There is a fight going on inside her right now. There is a guy that is already making her feel desired, beautiful and amazing, and now you are mucking about in her plans, the plan where she had given up on the marriage.
So, she is pissed, upset, elated, wanting to believe you but not sure she can trust you. Add a bowl full of confusion and an infatuation with another man, stir it all up, and you have a definition for how she feels.
What makes it fun for you is that she is running everything through that filter.
She knows that the right thing to do is to stay, but the infatuation is driving her to make room for the new relationship instead of fixing the old.
So, there you are, all stuck in the middle.
Your mission is simple. Make the infatuation less important than the rest of it, and you will have pulled your feet from the fire. At that point, you can work on the marriage in earnest.
Be on your best behavior, day and night. Keep your "jacket" on at all times.
If the pendulum seems to be swinging toward the other man. Let me know and we can talk about that. I won't discuss or defend this here, but I will tell you that regardless of what you may have read, you can bust an active affair, and you don't have to wait until it burns itself out, but we can deal with that if it becomes necessary.
I am glad that you have stepped up to be the hero.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Oh, I'm soooo jealous -- wish my H were doing all of this!
I think you guys will be fine; you've a lot of work to do though and you can't ever forget the lessons learned and the lessons you will continue to learn through this whole process.
Just keep up the good work & the effort to show her how much you love her and how much this means to you to get things back to good.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Oh, I'm soooo jealous -- wish my H were doing all of this!
I think you guys will be fine; you've a lot of work to do though and you can't ever forget the lessons learned and the lessons you will continue to learn through this whole process.
Just keep up the good work & the effort to show her how much you love her and how much this means to you to get things back to good.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Forgot to tell you one good part. She mentioned the flowers at work, and how all of her co-workers were talking about them. I said "Good -- that's why I sent them. I didn't send them to be mushy, you know."
She said "What do you mean?"
I looked her in the eyes and said "I wanted everyone there -- and you -- to get the message that you're a married woman, and you're married to someone who WILL FIGHT FOR YOU."
She didn't really have much to say to that, but I think she liked it.
Congrats, you stuck to your guns and did it. And, I know exactly how you feel inside because that is exactly what I did last week with my H and things are turning around.
It won't happen overnight but you got her to agree to MC - that is HUGE!!!! and a very BIG step
Keep it going, you are doing great
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
