Piecing - H still contacts OW

[ourcrisis]

My story:

First Thread
Second Thread

Summary:
H was friends with OW and OW's brother (I don't know them). OW's brother passed away due to a sudden cancer. H took over the role of brother/lover and EA/PA started. I found out 5 months later while the A is in full swing. At that time, MLC or not, H was in a crisis and was an "alien". He was going to leave and was mean to me. I started DB later and it started to work. PA supposedly became EA and slowly H was showing his niceness to me again. OW still in the R, though. H "loves me but also loves her".

In March, when I felt H will end the A soon, H said he needs to move out "be alone to decide and don't contact anyone" and expected to be back in two weeks. I found out the first day that OW was with him. I broke off all contact and said I did not want him back unless he is "DONE WITH HER". After two weeks, he told me "he dumped her" and he was moving back. I was not really given a say in the moving back and I did not push. He told me that he needed to move out to "end things with her. This is his convoluted way to end things and he has to do it."

What is the current situation?
- H is back in the house. He has virtually cut off all night
outings with everyone and only spend time with me. We go
out a lot together to do things.
- H is taking care of the kids, and trying to be a "be there"
father and husband. e.g. he actually remembers that I like
a dish he cooks and cooked for me on Mother's Day. It was
a big deal to me.
- We are currently living far away from home due to h's work.
His contract is ending and we will actually be moving home
this summer. H did not push to renew the contract. He said
"he is hoping the distance will lessen his pain" (of loving
her?)
- H is in depression. He told me that (can't tell from his
poker face). H still refuses to open up to me with his
feelings, R or not R.
- H does not want to listen to my feelings either. When I do
have my crying sessions, he either hugs me or critize me
("why do you need to know? Are you trying to punish me?").
Even when he is in a good mood to care for me, he does not
discuss deeply my issues. ("You have to work this out
yourself")
- H is still in contact with OW. Talks everyday, phone and/or
online. That H let me know. I strongly suspect H is still
meeting OW for lunch, that he does not let me know. (I know,
give him the benefit of the doubt, but I am fairly certain)
He told me "he has to give her a soft landing" so as to not
hurt her feelings.
- Having said that, h does go out of the way to be nice. He
tries to tell me everything else. He tries to plan our
move back home, chit chat with me. However, I am still left
out of his work circle friends because he does not want
to run into OW while being with me.

So, what is my issues? Most of you here would probably say,
"Good work. keep it up. He is being very nice already.
Give him time." Well, my issues:

- I am feeling very resentful that he is not respecting me.
I told him "Don't come back till you are DONE WITH HER."
He came back anyway (good) but still keep in contact with
OW. He told me "It will end this summer anyway when we move."
I feel very resentful that he is coming back due to
circumstances (kids, work ending, too difficult to have
long distance R, etc.) I feel resentful that he is not
coming back because he loves me. I feel if he truly cares
for me, he needs to cut off all contact with OW, not let
their R dies a slow way (he knows he is hurting me which
I think is the reason he is still lying to me)
- I resent the fact that he will not let me in his circle.
I still do not meet his other social work friend and I never
will. I feel like we are still not 100% together
- Because he plans to contact OW at least until we move, I
am worried that he will see her whenever he is back in town.
I won't be there then and how would I know if A won't start
again (even for a short 2 weeks?)
- I resent the fact that he is not opening up to me the way
he did with OW. OW and H had similar family background
(alcoholic) and both are very active. H feels that OW
understands him. H would get drunk with OW. I did not
drink before but now I take a little wine to keep him
company. I told him to get drunk with me. He refused.
I feel that he closed off being open with me because
he won't even let his drunken side show in front of me,
but would with her.

Thank you for reading so far. My logical brain tells me it is
too early for him to open up and may be I should just let
the A ends the natural cause since after all, we are moving home soon. But that's exactly the part that I feel resentful most, that it is circumstances, not his heart that does the action. i fear that if the right triggers appear again, he will do this again (he said "he's learnt his lesson. It won't happen again.") I am not so sure (girls happen to pour out their feelings to him for some strange reasons, all these years).

I want to tell him something:
- Are you still seeing OW?
- You are still contacting her. This is hurting me. I do not know
if I can trust you, ever because you have not kept your promise
all these times
- May be we should separate if you still want to be with her
- I cannot be intimate with you anymore. I feel sick
- If you don't cut off all contacts, we will eventually divorce
- I need you to be honest with me, not lie to me again. I told
you before that I want the truth to feel respected so i can
make my own choices. I do not want to be treated like a kid.

Some of the above are probably overboard but they are in my mind. I need some advice here (give it to me blank, I can take it) If you have read this far, what do you think I should do? Both in terms of telling/not telling/what to tell H, and how to addres my own feelings/insecurty/RESENTMENT? I am an uptight person (dot the "i" type) that's why I feel he needs to cut off contact before we move back to show total commmitment. Otherwise, this may hang in my head forever. So I need either to get past it myself or he has to do something (preferred)

OK. That's all. Now I will try and read some other posts and hope to give at least some hugs to the newcomers. THANK YOU.

[ourcrisis]

Oh, one more thing.
I wrote a letter and have not sent. Contents:
- thanking him for giving me a great Mother's Day
- thank you that he did not answer one of OW's surprise phone call
(she does not call on weekends and nights, only at his work)
when we were together. He lied first, then I asked and he
admitted it was her.
- how I hope he can be more honest with me and how i hope he
can be more caring for my feelings and open up more with me

Opinions?

[Astimegoeson]

I told him to get drunk with me. He refused.
I feel that he closed off being open with me because
he won't even let his drunken side show in front of me,
but would with her.

Our, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion he's not open with you because he won't get drunk with you. He knows you don't drink, he's probably uncomfortable that your forcing that on him to prove something.

You said you do many things together though. Think for a moment that he may not feel comfortable doing things with the OW that he feels comfortable doing with you.

You don't have to be like each other or do the same things to be open with one another. Opposites attract in most cases and those are usually the relationships that can survive the long haul IMHO because it keeps the interest level peeked.

[rac1990]

Dear ourcrisis,
I am going through the exact same thing with my husband. I am new here and I really didn't know where to post when I started but my thread is under I need support with my marital problem. My H Met his friend at work. I found out in March and it has shattered my world. My husband felt that I had put everyone else above him for the last 3-4 years so he found someone who would listen to him. Now that I have opened my eyes and realized what I am in jeopardy of losing, he says he can't just kick her to the curb. She will always be in his life friend wise. He swears there has never been anything but friendship. They talk daily, text message and yes even meet after work. I hate it, all I do is sit at home waiting for my cell to ring or for him to walk in the front door. It takes him exactly 1 hour to get to our house from work so I know just as well when he has made a pit stop. It takes him 2 hours. Everyone on here is telling me to just do as he ask and give him the space he is asking for. If I give him his space, he says everything with us will eventually get back to normal. He says he loves me more than anything in this world and he isn't going anywhere but if I continue to monitor his ever move and phone call ( I am logged into our verizon account 300 times a day) checking every 15-20 min to see when and how long his last call or text message was. It's driving me crazy.
U and I and our H's are around the same age. Read my thread and see if any of it sounds farmiliar. I wish you the best and I know exactly where you are coming from. I have the exact same feelings you do.

M-37
H-37
S-14
D-10
Together 20 years
Married 16 1/2
Bomb March 11, 2007

[ourcrisis]

Bumping this up, trying to get more responses from the first post.
rac, replied in your thread.
Astimegoeson, thank you for reminding me to focus on the good things.
I did give him the letter yesterday (mostly thanks, little "hope" for him to be more honest)
I went out with friends yesterday for a goodbye party. H was home. When I got home late, he thanked me for giving him that letter. I think he was quite happy that I thanked him for Mother's Day. But when I progressed to say "I want to ask you something.", he shutted me down and said, "he does not want to talk." (pause) "I don't know what you are going to ask. You know, it will end in a month anyway." "whatever you decide, you decide with your guessing. I will support you." I feel very resentful about another lie. He said before he would talk to me whenever I inititated. Now he shut me down. He is physically here, but just not emotionally to work with me. Someone tell me that I am askign for too much, too soon? I feel there is a time limit for me to end this before we leave so i can have closure. Otherwise, I will never feel at ease.
Please post if you have commnets (especially on my post yesterday)

[oldtimer]

Make this about you, not H.

Given: H is going to continue contact with OW

You don't need to grill him about it or understand his motivation. He has been pretty clear about it. Accept it.

What are you comfortable with given that fact? If you need to have him move out, have him move out. If you are going to tolerate it, tolerate it. Control yourself, not him. Figure out your own boundary, and enforce it.

Quit going to him to try to get him to fix it. He won't. The arrangement is working for him.

[Concerned_Listener]

OC,
I can understand your distress. Your H is back home and continues contact with the OW. It sounds like he moved back on his terms.

I too live with my spouse, and suspect she continues with an EA. I've decided to not push for a separation. I believe that if there are positives in the R, the situation is improving, and that I'm able to get better with practice the skills of DB, detachment, GAL, cultivating unconditional love, and other life skills, than we can live under the same roof.

I know it's a difficult situation to get used to. We want the OP out of our lives.

I think the shift we have to make to adapt to this, is to focus on what's going on inside our heads, and how we're acting, versus what's going on with the WAS. Otherwise, we're simply trying to make pain and discomfort go away, and trying to create a scenario we think is safer and more comfortable.

I don't think trying to enforce that your H cease and desist with the OW is going to create what you're looking for. The essential problems and issues that he and the R has will still be there.

Your role at this time is to cultivate happiness, love, and connection in your life, to detach from his problems, to let the situation settle down so that you can get a clearer perspective on what's really going on, and to have realistic expectations of your H.

If you cannot attain a positive state-of-mind while he is living at home, and continues an EA, than you may need to consider a separation. It is more important to have a positive R with your H, than it is to be living under the same roof.

CL

[ourcrisis]

Thank you for all your inputs. oldtimer, it is good to see your short but to the point opinion. It does clear things up in my mind. I need to figure out what my boundaries are and what action to take if he cannot live within the boundary. At this point, I am leaning towards tolerating it until our family leaves together. My h IS a good man (as most of your S are) and I am sure he is feeling tremendously guilty about dumping OW. Except for the part of continual contact with OW (via phone/online) which he only does at work, I feel he is trying very hard to make me happy. He is trying to remember every little thing I say (e.g. I mentioned a restaurant that I wanted to go but it was fully booked when I went with a friend. The next day he took me there for lunch).

I am mostly positive except for my occasional explosion/crying session. We both are pretending (at times at least) to be happy but that is working and I feel we are getting happier together. But it is slow. I had a "talk" with h the other day and he said I need to take it slow. I take it as I am pushing too much? I am going to reread DB book and not let myself push so much, if at all. CL, you are right I need to cultivate more positive experience, rather than negative ones.

[Delil@h]

Wow you sure are going thru alot right now and how strong you are is also evident. Keep positive as hard as it is and keep thinking of a positive outcome. MY H went thru the same things...
TREMENDOUS GUILT....
1.HOW CAN I BE SO MEAN TO HER
2.I FEEL SORRY FOR HER
3.ACCEPTING CALLS WHEN HE REALLY NO LONGER WANTED TO FOR THE SAME REASON
4.NOT KNOWING HE WAS HURTING ME BY THINKING OF HER HURT AND ACTING AS IF I WAS NOT HURT BY THIS
5.KEEPING HER PICTURE IN HIS PHONE EVEN AFTER RECONCILE AND AND TM AND VM TOO ( A REAL LONG MESSAGE SHE LEFT @ MISSING HIM )
6. HE STILL HAS TATTOO OF HER NAME WHICH HE HAS MADE SEVERAL ATTEMTPS TO "COVER" BUT HE HASN'T YET, IT IS ONHIS CHEST "ABOVE HIS HEART"

and yes you either tolerate it or you set boundaries . OT is right.
For me aside from the ROLLERCOASTER that Piecing still is. This TRANSITION,, WAS THE HARDEST FOR ME! Seeing the light at the end of the Tunnel but not being able to feel it on my face. And boy did he say some cruel things! ( w/o intentionally trying to be cruel things)...
hE EVEN accepted her sending a pic or two and save them of her and she sent it of her Tattoo with his name and it is in a spot that cannot be seen if you are clothed. UUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGH.
I must say that just this past month he has really started to WARM UP. And I feel comfortable enough to feel and allow myself to see this as real and genuine and we are 10 months into RECONCILIATION.
You are doing everything you canto save yourself and this M too. You should feel proud of yourself and strap yourself in so to speak,,, for the strength you wil need to keep going. There were days when I wanted to give up too, and I felt I couldnt take it anymore... and the stronger and calmer I stayed ( while venting here Thank God !!!!!) the better it was.
I still remember the morning I wanted to just blow up erupt lke a VOLCANO and tell him no more of this and I cant take this CAKE EATING anymore and that nite he told me he loved me and wanted us to love eachother for a very long time.

I MAY BE WRONG BUT YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THEIR PACE AND CANNOT FORCE THINGS THEY HAVE TO FEEL LIKE THEY ARE MAKING THE CHOICES.
I WANTED TO FORCE my h TO CHANGE AND HURRY UP AND LEAVE HER ALONE TO EASE MY PAIN AND IT WASN'T GOING TO BE THAT WAY,,
Keep positve and keep smiling.... JUST MY 2 CENTS HOPE IT HELPED YOU SOME.

GOD BLESS.

[ourcrisis]

Alimari, thank you for your kind words. The biggest thing that help me on this board is for people to share their stories. I am a very logical person. Just feeling it does not work for me very well. But reading post like yours, telling me that you are 10 month into reconciliation and h still have some sort of "ties" (for lack of a better word) gives me some framework for my own situation. I know everyone's situation is different. I've only been in this for 2 months and I know my situation is not as bad as some others. Still, it is difficult for me to see h still contacting ow (he calls, not she calls and he answers). But reading others' sitch does make me realize that I need to slow down and just let things take the time to happen/end/follow its course?

Thanks for all the kind words. I feel for you with those photos of tattoos. Your advise is just what I need to hear to keep me going for another few days/weeks? For me, I need encouragement every so often to keep me going. So THANKS!!! That's probabl why h not telling me everything is SO difficult for me because I need the reassurance and facts from him to get me going, which obvioustly i am not getting. I am glad that I can get words of encouragement here.

H seems to be happier lately. Will see how long this last. We will be moving in the summer. So I expect h to get depressed and at least OW to get pushy closer to that time.