Sara wrote :"Quick, before things change! Go to Frederick's of Hollywood or at least Victoria's Secret and buy yourself some really sexy lingerie. Something with the split thong panties. Make love to him in the way she can't. You are in a great position if he is making love to you. Use it don't lose it!" Tam, just remember if H isn't interested THINK WHATISIS! It would just be friendship sex though, OK. I'm still a married man!
Hey, gang. Hope you all are doing well. Thanks for your wonderful, thoughtful advice, and thanks to Whatisis for the chuckle.
I haven't logged on here since I went out of town and wish I would have. I really appreciate all of your advice, and it made so much sense. I decided to move forward with my verbal conversation with him but may still follow up with a letter. Let me know what you guys think.
So H hurt himself over the weekend racing unfortunately, so he is feeling horrible this week. We didn't end up having our meeting on Monday night because he wasn't feeling well, but we did meet last night. I had been thinking about it a lot over the weekend, about what I would say and how I would say it. My mind kept racing around in circles, and I was feeling so anxious. It was really hard. I finally just decided that I would just say what came to my mind at the time and go from there.
So we met last night, and he brought up getting an assistant again and asked me what I thought about it. I can't remember everything we said to each other, but I'll do my best to point out the things I do remember. I took a deep breath, and I told him that we had discussed that when the apartments were done we would talk about where we were at with our R. I said that I wasn't sure where his feelings are at right now but that, as I've told him in the past, I don't want to continue our business relationship if we are not going to have our marriage. I told him that I did not want to get an assistant until I felt like we were moving forward with us. I stressed to him that I was not telling him that he had to make any decisions now but that if he had not yet made a decision that I would rather put off getting an assistant for now. I also told him that with where the business is at now it would be a good time for us to split if that's what he wanted. He asked me if that is what I wanted, and I told him no, that he knows what I want but that I don't know where his feelings are right now. He told me that he wants to work on our marriage, which I guess I hoped for and maybe even expected him to say. I told him that I would like to know where things stood with OW currently. He said that he has not spoken to her for a week and a half to two weeks. I asked him if things were over with her, and I think he said yes... I told him that I obviously knew that he still had clothes and some toiletries over there, and he said he knew that and that he didn't know if he was going to get them (WTH?). I teased him about not being shaven again and being "scruffy," and he laughed and said that as a matter of fact he had put it on his list of to do things for last night to go and buy a shaver on the way home. I asked him if he ended things amicably with her, and he said not really... And when I asked whether he told her that he wanted to work on his marriage, he said he had talked with her about that. At some point he said he was done talking about this and wanted to move on to the next business item. I told him that I was talking to him about this because *I* need to make some decisions on what *I* need to do from here. I kind of felt myself getting a little angry, as this isn't all about HIM. This is MY life, too, and I should be able to make decisions on what I want to do based on having the facts of where things stand with him/OW/us. He kind of backed off a little bit when I said that and said that he understood that. So he said that he hadn't told her that he was going to work on us, that he had simply just stopped talking to her. He said something like "you know me, I don't like conflict, and I want to avoid it." Yes, I do know this, H... So I asked him if he was still planning on talking to her/seeing her. He thought for a while, and then said something like "Do I intend on seeing her? No. If you tell me to pack my bags and get out, I may talk to her, but I don't know if anything would ever come of it." I told him that I want him to tell me if he does talk to her/see her, that even though it may hurt me, it's important in to me that he is honest with me, that that is the only way I can rebuild trust. He agreed to do so.
I think that's about it for the main points of our conversation. I reached across the table and grabbed his hand and said thank you and told him I love him. He said he loves me, too.
And that was that! I know it sounds like I asked a lot of questions and that this was a marathon conversation, but in actuality it probably lasted 10 minutes, if that. I did work hard to be conscientious of not questioning him to death and just accepting what he was saying. I found myself when the conversatin was over with and we parted to go home thinking about everything and wanting to ask him more questions, but I purposely just let it be for now and just contemplated my thoughts and feelings and consciously made the decision to sit on them and think about them and decide what I would like to do next.
When we both got home last night, he seemed overly nice to me, just with the way he was treating me and the things he was saying to me. It made me feel good. It's like he has to "show" me how he feels rather than saying it. That put me at ease a little bit, because I knew he hopefully wasn't angry about my bringing up the conversation. Maybe he felt a bit of relief as well because he was able to tell me where things stood? I don't know. It also kind of set up the expectation that he is NOT going to not come home anymore, so if he does, it will definitely be a huge setback. A new standard has been set I guess if how things are going to happen from here on out. I no longer should have to worry about whether he is coming home at night, but I do... I think just because he didn't really tell her that it's over. But he also told me that they didn't end things amicably, but it sounds like they didn't end things at all???? I don't know...
So he came home from his trip on Sunday night and has stayed home every night since. He is home tonight passed out in the other room with sleeping pills from his pain from hurting himself.
So, I have mixed feelings now. You asked me what I wanted out of the conversation. I guess I got part of what I wanted in that he kind of told me that he is done with her, but it was also weird in that he didn't really tell her that he is going to work on us, so as to avoid "conflict," it seems. He didn't take his belongings from her house, which hurts me and confuses me. It's like he is still leaving the door open with her "just in case" we don't work out, which makes me feel like a lot of pressure has been placed on my back - like I'm being tested, and if I do the wrong thing or say the wrong thing he has left the door open with her so that he can go back to her. I don't like the way that feels. It makes me feel like I can't be me, like I can't have bad days or can't say/do the wrong things sometimes without worrying that he is going to leave me and go back to her.
I also asked him if we could work through a different store for our business rather than the store that she works at, that that would mean a lot to me. He agreed to look into it...
I don't know... I feel relieved yet anxious, happy yet scared, hopeful yet reserved... June 9th was the last night that he has not stayed with me (besides when he was out of town). That is a good sign, and I am so grateful for that. I guess I hoped he would tell me that he had actually told her that it was over and that he was going to work on us and that he had brought his things home. That would have been ideal. Instead, at least for the first time he told me that he "doesn't intend" on seeing her anymore, but it still doesn't feel like there is closure there, and that bothers me.
Lin, your point is well-taken to be conscientious about how I react to his actions. It is indeed very hard since we have so much communication throughout the days with the business. And so many of our evening activities are joined with business meetings and whatnot. I welcome any suggestions you guys have of finding ways to separate myself from him more. I know some of it is my own insecurities, and I hope that will fade a bit with time as I begin to feel more secure with things. But at the same time it truly is very difficult to separate myself from him because of the business.
So, what do you guys think? Let me know your thoughts looking in. As I said, I feel better in a lot of ways but still feel unsettled. What do I do from here? Should I wait a week or so and gather my thoughts and see how things go with us and then maybe write him a letter, complimenting him on how much I appreciate all he has done to work on us and then discussing my feelings? Do I just let it go? I still have reservations about getting an assistant, as I guess he didn't completely put my mind at ease about us. So do I wait on getting an assistant? Do I mention that to him in a letter? Ugh... Help, guys! Things are going so well, and I want so much to keep working in the right direction.
The other thing I thought about after our talk is that he told me at the beginning of this all happening things that were different between me and OW and things that he missed about me, etc. I have worked so hard on those things. The one thing I have stressed to him is that I want to learn how to talk to one another. So I guess when he still was defensive when we talked last night, it made me angry a bit. Why is it that I have worked so hard to change/find my old self again, and he has not worked on what I have asked? It's really important to me to not have to feel "scared" to have a conversation with him or to bring something up if I'm hurt/scared/etc. But then I thought that the subject matter we were discussing was probably not a very good test of working on our communication. DB coach mentioned that H obviously knows he is in the wrong for A and that he is automatically going to feel guilt/shame/etc., and that it is very hard for someone to come into that sort of a conversation with the "upper hand," so to speak. I get that. So maybe if the subject matter was a bit different it would be better? I don't know... But I DO know that it is important for me to feel safe in talking with my H...
Well, I'm tired and am heading off to bed, to sleep next to my H. Gosh, it feels so good to be able to say that. I can't believe how far we've come. I just have to pinch myself... I know there is still so far to go, but I honestly didn't know if we would ever make it here. We were so far in the other direction. It feels like we're on the right track and that things are getting better every day. But I just don't like feeling like I/we are being "tested" and that he has just left the door open to go back to her...
Thanks for letting me vent. I look forward to your thoughts and advice, as always. Thanks so much, guys.
Wow! Great work! That is really good. He's back and he can say nice things about you, and he even said ILY. These are very big things.
If you can, you should go to a Retrouvaille weekend as soon as possible, while the good will is still fresh. It is a marital retreat for people with marital problems. They teach you how to communicate your feelings in a non-threatening way. What can be accomplished in one weekend at Retrouvaille, cannot be duplicated elsewhere. See http://www.retrouvaille.org. for a schedule of weekends near you.
If all you can do is buy a book, get After the Affair by Janis Abrams-Springer. It's written to speak to both the cheating spouse and the non-cheating spouse and gives excellent insight into both sides.
I guess we can hope that this is in fact a marriage saved...it would have been nice after so many of us put in time and effort if 2940 would have given us a heads up and said good bye...but if we don't see her again maybe it is for good reason...
Thank you for checking in on me. It's so nice to know you care.
I'm so sorry for not letting you know how things were going. As things continued to get better with my R, it's almost like here was the last place that I wanted to go to. I hope that somehow makes sense. Maybe it was a reminder of the hurt? I can't really explain it.
Regardless, it is important to me that you all know how much your support, time, encouragement, and strength meant/means to me. There are simply not words to describe my gratitude.
I'm finding myself hurting just writing this for some reason, so I'll keep this short but wanted to update you.
It's still been since June 9th that H has been home every night. Things have progressively gotten better and better, and I can cautiously say that things are better than they ever were before. We ML all the time now; we laugh; our business is going really well; etc. I'm still having a hard time with the trust issue and am continuing to work on that. I realize it's just going to take time, so I'm trying to be patient with myself and not put pressure on him.
More good news is that OW has changed locations of her job and is moving - I believe maybe even out of state.
Bad news is that H had communication this evening with OW via text messages. There hasn't been any other communication between them before this since early June (that I'm aware of at least). The text messages were innocent but were initiated by H and offered to open up the lines of communication in a "friends" way. I'm scared and hurt and don't really know what to do. I just pray that guilt has set in on him and that he needed to say he was sorry to her. Don't know what I'm going to do about this but will just not react for now and will take time to think on it.
So, yes, I do believe and pray that this is a marriage saved. SUCCESS! I will continue to hold on and be the best wife I can be and to learn from this experience.
I hope you all are doing well and that you have success stories of our own. Thank you all again for everything.
2940... Well I discovered recently that my H was in contact with OW via email 7 months after he returned home (still couldn't say he loved me but he told her he would always love her)...he also initiated the contact...he also wanted to stay in contact as friends because he felt he could talk to her about things easier then me... Fortunately OW had moved on and was living with an OM...she was happy...of course my H said he was happy for her and was working on things with me...she said also that she "always knew he would return" to his W...in her heart she knew...so this tells me that she wasn't looking at him as a permanent R/M as they had been discussing...despite him thinking I was so insecure it appears that she was also...about me!...and thus moved on to an OM before even telling H about it...which was way before he returned home... It hurt to see that he made this contact...it hurt to see him profess his love to her yet again...it hurt to see that he wanted to up the contact to phone also...which OW declined... From what I can tell there was no more contact after that...they both wished each other continued happiness...and sort of left it at that... I think that might have been H's replay...going back to see if she still loved him or if she had really moved on and what they had was in fact dead... He says now (we talked about this nearly a year after their last contact now)he wouldn't open an email from her (this is the only way she could contact him as he has no cell, no work number, no address away from home)...infact he says he thinks he might have blocked her once he realized that he did love me again...which he said to me some 4-5 months after this last contact with her... I know he didn't block her...but then his memory is really bad... I was concerned that he thought of her...compared me to her...but these are all my own insecurities...H says he doesn't think of her and tries very hard to dismiss thoughts of her...he has no romantic memories of her and feels that what happened was a huge mistake...he feels that had he realized the depths of his depression back then he wouldn't have gotten involved with her but would have sought help for his real issues...which he tried to mask with the A (bandaid!) So like you things continue to improve...it is good if OW moves out of state...I would think your H touched bases with her as a sort of replay like mine did...just to see if they still "have it" in the eyes of the OW...an ego thing...and also could be to make sure they are okay to relieve some of their guilt... I am glad things are going well for you...and in time you and H might be able to discuss some of these things so that you can have final closure... thanks for letting us know your doing well...in R/M and business...
