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A Message from Michele
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Like a ton of bricks. #925858
02/09/07 05:26 PM
02/09/07 05:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 210
L
Lost_for_now Offline OP
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Lost_for_now  Offline OP
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L
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 210
First off, I hope this is the correct place to be posting this. It's my first post, so I'm not sure.

I will keep my story brief, as it seems to be echoed by so many others here that it will probably be repetitive!

My STBXW and I were married in August '05, she dropped the bomb on 10/14/06. I am 38, she is 31. I admitted to making mistakes at that time (mostly a case of me taking the marriage and her for granted) and wanted to fix the problems/seek counseling. She originally said no to everything, said she'd had enough. Gave me the famous ILYBINILWY line that tore my heart out. Then she said she thought we should separate for a time, to get some space. That was also in mid-October, and she hasn't returned. I know now that the minute she walked out the door she wasn't coming back.

She insists that there is no OM, I don't want to believe her. My theory is that if there is no OM, then she really is gone forever. At least if she were seeing someone else she might someday realize that the grass isn't always greener and come back. As it is, she chooses to be alone over being with me. And that really hurts.

Anyway, she agreed to go to counseling and 'work on things' but that too was a charade. I found out recently that she did those things 'because I asked her to' and not for the right reasons. Not surprisingly the counseling didn't help. Any time we did spend together seemed forced and mechanical. It was clear that she was not interested in making an effort to make things work.

Another one of our issues was children. She always wanted them, I was extremely hesitant. I didn't really think I was ready, and kept putting her off. The irony here is that mere days before she dropped the bomb I was going to tell her that after doing a lot of thinking on my own I realized that I wanted children as well. It was like a switch was flipped, my outlook had changed. Of course, telling her this information after she dropped the bomb was meaningless. She dismissed it as me trying to say anything to get her to come back. This has made the whole process that much harder. Now I am someone who wants children but is faced with trying to start over at 38 years old!

The thing that really gets me is just how detached she is. If I never contacted her we would never talk. I tried applying some of the DB principles early on, but to no avail. She seems like a completely different person and I cannot understand why she is doing what she is. She acknowledges that I am making positive changes, changes she can see, but says it's too late. She tells me that she has lost that 'feeling' and she doesn't feel she should compromise that in her life.

The other day she told me that she wanted to remain close friends after it was all over. I thought, are you crazy??? How does that work exactly, do I call you up and ask you what I should wear for a date I'm going on? Do you tell me what a great guy you found? Seriously, what is she thinking??

Lots of questions, not many answers. I have sort of decided that the answers don't really matter. The only thing that matters is that she has checked out of the relationship and she's not coming back. I need to accept that, but when things hit you from out of the blue it's hard. Outside of infidelity, I cannot think of anything she could have done that would lead me to want to divorce her. I think we just think about the vows of marriage differently.

Anyway, it has felt good to unload all of this, and I welcome any responses. I sort of just blurted out a bunch of things so I'm sure I'm forgetting many of the details. I hope it was at least somewhat coherent for people to be able to follow...

Re: Like a ton of bricks. [Re: Lost_for_now] #925957
02/09/07 06:05 PM
02/09/07 06:05 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,841
Alabama
J
Jeff223 Offline
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Jeff223  Offline
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J
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,841
Alabama
Welcome LFN. There is no right or wrong place for posting. I started in newcomers and then moved here. This forum is more of a parking place once you are here for awhile. Lots of traffic on my thread but folks know I am here. You would get more responses in newcomers. The MLC area is also busy but your WAW does not appear to fit that description. Also the separated area sees a lot of traffic and that may apply to you.

Your story sounds a lot like mine. Their switch turns off and they lose the feeling and they see no way of returning. Frustrating. I wish I could offer you some solution but I have been at this a year now and things are the same for me. I can fully relate to seeing a different person, the mechanical interactions, WAW seeing my changes but they are too late. Hard to figure her out and after a year at this I learned you can drive yourself crazy trying. Many do want to stay friends I think it helps their guilt and to tell themselves they are not hurting us and this is all okay somehow. Better to stay friendly although you must be feeling anger and frustration right now (I did). But controlled anger is a good emotion.

Best thing you can do is try to detach and Get a Life (GAL) as we call it here. Focus on you. Hard to do; ask me how I know that. Do read Divorce Remedy. Have you filed for D yet? If not, give her space and be supportive of what she wants to do. Try not to let her actions get to you whatever she does is perfectly okay, for her. You are only a few months along in the journey so anything might still happen.

Interesting you were married such a short time. Folks here seem to average about 10 years married before the bomb. Did you date long before you married? Any other issues?

Dont worry the kids. I was 42 when my first was born. Plenty of time for you.

Strength and Honor.


Jeff

Current Thread
Re: Like a ton of bricks. [Re: Lost_for_now] #926101
02/09/07 07:20 PM
02/09/07 07:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,958
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Just_Me Offline
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Just_Me  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,958
Lost,

I to find it hard to believe there isn't someone else. I'm skeptical of someone just quitting like that after a year unless they have some outside interest. And I agree with you that it would be preferable.

You already got the advice you need. Quit contacting her....I mean cut it off entirely. If she truly wants to be friends or if she gets curious about you, she'll call. If she hasn't contacted you in a couple weeks, then give her a call. You really do need to look closely at your own life. How could it be better? How could you be better? What would make life more complete? Then start doing stuff to get a life. Make yourself happy.

The choice to try on this marriage is entirely hers. You can't convince her of anything with words. You barely could with action. She will have to decide that herself and she might be influenced to try again if you have your act together, are confident, happy, and complete all by your lonesome. This doesn't have to be the worst time of your life. It can be a wonderful opportunity for growth, improvement, and exploration, free of considering the needs of your spouse.

What do you think caused all this?

Agree that you will get more traffic in Newcomers and more frequent support.

Me


In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.
Theodore Roosevelt

Re: Like a ton of bricks. [Re: Jeff223] #926173
02/09/07 07:49 PM
02/09/07 07:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 210
L
Lost_for_now Offline OP
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Lost_for_now  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 210
First off, thank you so much for all of your suggestions and advice. I can't tell you how much it helps. Maybe I should paste the link for my story in the other forums you suggested?

On to your great advice (my responses follow your text which is in quotes)...

"Your story sounds a lot like mine. Their switch turns off and they lose the feeling and they see no way of returning. Frustrating. I wish I could offer you some solution but I have been at this a year now and things are the same for me. I can fully relate to seeing a different person, the mechanical interactions, WAW seeing my changes but they are too late. Hard to figure her out and after a year at this I learned you can drive yourself crazy trying."

Yes, you are sure correct about all of this. I know that I need to stop trying to figure out why she is doing what she is, but it sure is tough. I think a lot of it is that I figure that if I can just deduce what she is thinking I can help fix it. The reality is that she doesn't want to fix it. SHE could fix it if she wanted, she just doesn't want to. That's the part that's really tough to swallow.

"Many do want to stay friends I think it helps their guilt and to tell themselves they are not hurting us and this is all okay somehow. Better to stay friendly although you must be feeling anger and frustration right now (I did). But controlled anger is a good emotion."

I will just never understand her desire to stay friends. I guess from the perspective of the person who walks away, it's easy to want to stay friends right? I mean, things between us were never hurtful toward each other, and we were never mean to each other. I guess we drifted apart. So from her point of view (already being completely detached and moved on) it would be easy to move on. If I talk to her and tell her that I'm going out with a friend of mine, she will tell me to "have a great time" or even "good luck!" as if she wants me to meet someone else. Before, if I were going out with the same guy she would worry that I was going to cheat on her with some random girl. The question I have is, how only after a year and change can someone so completely close off feelings like that?

"Best thing you can do is try to detach and Get a Life (GAL) as we call it here. Focus on you. Hard to do; ask me how I know that. Do read Divorce Remedy. Have you filed for D yet? If not, give her space and be supportive of what she wants to do. Try not to let her actions get to you whatever she does is perfectly okay, for her. You are only a few months along in the journey so anything might still happen."

I've actually started on the whole GAL thing and I have my ups and downs. She was the one that moved out of our house, and sometimes it's hard being there by myself but then I really thank God for my two dogs. Talk about unconditional love! I cleared out all pictures of either her or us and put them in a box. That really did help me as I was really growing tired of being in a good mood, then seeing a wedding picture of us that would put me in a tailspin. I also agree about not letting her actions get to me. Not easy, but you are right I think in it being the best courrse of action. I have not filed for divorce, and she has not either. We are supposed to be having a meeting to discuss our 'settlement' ideas and from everything she has told me she is willing to be very amicable about splitting things up.

"Interesting you were married such a short time. Folks here seem to average about 10 years married before the bomb. Did you date long before you married? Any other issues?"

You have hit on the very thing that has baffled me since the start. We met in 2003, and lived together for over two years when we got married in 2005. We will have been together for four years next week. This is the exact thing that I will never come to grips with, which is her throwing in the towel so fast. Like I said, after we got married I started taking a lot for granted, not giving our relationship the attention it deserved. Nonetheless, I cannot see this drastic a move so fast. Her response is, "we shouldn't have these problems so soon after marriage" and I guess maybe that's true. But isn't the important thing that I acknowledge and more importantly want to change the problems? Not to her; as I said, it was a case of too little, too late.

"Dont worry the kids. I was 42 when my first was born. Plenty of time for you."

Thank you for those words, I was really starting to feel the walls closing in on me!


Current thread

Me-38
W-31
No Kids
Bomb-10/10/06
She moved out very soon after, and is filing for divorce very soon.
Re: Like a ton of bricks. [Re: Lost_for_now] #926274
02/09/07 09:06 PM
02/09/07 09:06 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,841
Alabama
J
Jeff223 Offline
Member
Jeff223  Offline
Member
J
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,841
Alabama
Repost your first post above in newcomers and see what happens. Not that I am trying to get rid of you!!! But don't start too many threads - makes it hard to follow you.

I am also in the middle of the 'settlement'. My W wants to be amicable also. Again, makes them feel that they are not really hurting us. Let's part best buddies and good sports. Makes me sick at times.


Jeff

Current Thread
Re: Like a ton of bricks. [Re: Just_Me] #926317
02/09/07 09:29 PM
02/09/07 09:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 210
L
Lost_for_now Offline OP
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Lost_for_now  Offline OP
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L
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 210
Thank you for your reply. I'm glad that someone else sees the issue of a potential OM like I do. It would just explain so many things to me. I have told her on many occasions that if she truly wants out of the marriage that all she would have to do is simply admit to the affair and that would be it! I would absolutely give her what she apparently wants, which is a divorce. She still denies.

Also agree that I need to make myself better for ME. People want to be around happy, confident people. It is, of course, difficult to do. Baby steps, I suppose.

As to what I think caused all of it, I think that it was the distance that grew between us following marriage as a result of my taking our relationship for granted. Over the course of a few months we grew more like roommates than husband and wife. She took a look at that and decided that wasn't how she wanted to live her life. Around that same time she started working late into the night a lot. I look back at those times and wonder if she was having an EA at that time that grew into a PA.


Current thread

Me-38
W-31
No Kids
Bomb-10/10/06
She moved out very soon after, and is filing for divorce very soon.
Re: Like a ton of bricks. [Re: Jeff223] #926333
02/09/07 09:39 PM
02/09/07 09:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 210
L
Lost_for_now Offline OP
Member
Lost_for_now  Offline OP
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 210
I will repost, thanks again for the advice! Don't worry, I didn't take it as you trying to get rid of me!

"I am also in the middle of the 'settlement'. My W wants to be amicable also. Again, makes them feel that they are not really hurting us. Let's part best buddies and good sports. Makes me sick at times."

Man do I know how you feel. It's like a double-whammy. First, it shows you that she is completely over you. Secondly, you get the benefit (if you remain friends) of hearing about her new guy! Makes me wonder if they ever think about what they're saying.


Current thread

Me-38
W-31
No Kids
Bomb-10/10/06
She moved out very soon after, and is filing for divorce very soon.
Re: Like a ton of bricks. [Re: Lost_for_now] #932611
02/14/07 07:30 PM
02/14/07 07:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,035
NY
F
faithisbelieving Offline
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faithisbelieving  Offline
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F
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,035
NY
LFN....Jeff has been on my side now for quite sometime and I can definitely say that you lucked out. Those here that get him to swoop into their threads are most fortunate indeed.

I have a few thoughts...some tough to hear...but...I needed to hear them too. From what I've read so far, you are in a tough sitch. As Jeff said, sometimes when that switch goes off, it is tough to throw back on. This is especially so when you don't have children. It just makes it so easy for them to 'eject'.

I am so sad for you that your M ended so quickly. My W is in MLC and is a live-in. Trust me....I look at all our pictures up on the wall everyday. Her dresser in our BR has all our wedding photos on it. If she was still living at home, I'd recommend that you leave them up...if there is a chance she will stop by, I wouldn't take them down either...at least just for now. Same with the wedding ring. What message do you want your W to get?

One thing that I have told myself over and over...and repeat...is that if you tell yourself that you can't control her, you will release yourself a bit for blaming yourself for everything. Remember...there are two people in every M. Stop beating yourself. Start to GAL. For me, I took motorcycle lessons, salsa lessons and my next GAL is to go back to playing my bagpipes which I have put down for several years. RUN....get to the gym..enjoy the endorphins. I feel much better and my mind is much clearer after exercising. Did you put on a few lbs? Lose them.

For the most part right now, you need to back off, stay calm and do something really tough...keep a PMA (positive mental attitude). Women are like bloodhounds, they can sniff out anger, fear, etc.

Back off on the telling her what you are doing. Create MYSTERY NOT JEALOUSY.

Run...get back into shape.....are you dressing 'hip'? Did you become 'boring' in your R? If so, I have a .pdf for you to read that helps.

And finally, the OM thing. This is most difficult for me to post as sometimes I still don't believe. I KNEW that my W would have a PA when my bomb occurred. She had to test and change everything..new body, new clothes, new car...eventually it would have to be me. When people told me she was having an A last year, I didn't believe it. Well..it was an EA (emotional affair) not a PA (physical affair). But the PA occurred when I was at my height of getting better....a 'backseater' one -timer. BUT...I knew something was up...she needed to go to the library on a night when the house was empty and she had pulled off her engagement ring only weeks before. Trust me...painful times.

I can tell you that it is VERY difficult to decide what to do if you are suspicious of this. They say that if you THINK it is happening, it probably is. Been there done that. The double edge sword about this is that if you get caught snooping and get caught up in fear-based behavior, it may crush any chances you have of reconciliation. On the other hand, I think you DO have the right and need to know what is going on with your life. Think hard about this. You can always start with benign stuff like checking your itemized home calls, etc. But again:

What will you do with this?
If you find out, will it change how you feel?
If she did have an A, would you take her back and find forgiveness?

For now, I would keep cool, stay calm.
No anger.
Validate her feelings.
Keep in touch but don't pursue.
No begging, crying, weakness, etc.
Avoid fear-based behavior.
"Continue to be the same strong and unwavering husband that you've always been".

Check out http://www.makingherhappy.com and subscribe to the emails.

Hang in there...we're here to support you.

Strength and honor.

FIB


Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11)
Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t
Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10
Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
Re: Like a ton of bricks. [Re: Lost_for_now] #932694
02/14/07 08:13 PM
02/14/07 08:13 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 73
Los Angeles, CA
L
Loves_Divine Offline
Member
Loves_Divine  Offline
Member
L
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 73
Los Angeles, CA
Sounds so much like my sitch.

Met in 2000. Lived together for a year in 2002. Got married in 2003. Got the bomb in 2006. I'm 39 now and she's 32.

Someone posted something in my own thread about friendship. It somehow got to me and made me feel a lil better about my decision. Someone posted along the same lines that "Frienship is a good thing. Friendship opens doors to other opportunities." I figured, we started off as friends so it can't hurt to get back to being friends.

In my case, I believe having children was also an issue. Though we were both in agreement about having children, the pressure was so thick I could cut it with a knife (at least for me). It was as if the act was so mechanical and at times I wasn't even up to it. Had I known then what I know now, I could've cared less whether it was mechanical or otherwise. I've been dark since we separated and so far it's been having an affect on her. The only problem is the sitch now is rather complicated bsed on recent revelations. One that I hope no one here would or should ever have to go through. I just hope (and pray) I am making the right decisions.

Hang in there man. Be friendly towards her when you do interact with each other. Keep your head up and do a little makeove and get a life. Make a list of what you think you might need to improve on or something you've always wanted to do and do them. Everything should be in moderation of course and by all means within your budget. Do something with your dogs. One thing that worked for me is this site called Meetup.com I looked up and signed up with groups that had the same interests as I do and took it from there. And what's great about it is that it's free!

Here's link to my sitch....I started this before she left so that should explain the title. Take what you can from it (not that there might be any) and leave what you don't need. Need some guidance with soon to be WAW!

Re: Like a ton of bricks. [Re: faithisbelieving] #932700
02/14/07 08:16 PM
02/14/07 08:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 210
L
Lost_for_now Offline OP
Member
Lost_for_now  Offline OP
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 210
FIB,

Thank you very much for the time you put into that post. I want to reply to some of the things you said, so I've put what you said in quotes and my replies are in bold...

"If she was still living at home, I'd recommend that you leave them up...if there is a chance she will stop by, I wouldn't take them down either...at least just for now. Same with the wedding ring. What message do you want your W to get?"

I find it difficult to have the pictures up. Every time I see them it destroys any positive steps I have taken and brings me right back down. I have only in the past couple days taken off my wedding ring. I agree with your sentiment though; I want her to get the message that I want to be married, so I should behave like it.

"One thing that I have told myself over and over...and repeat...is that if you tell yourself that you can't control her, you will release yourself a bit for blaming yourself for everything. Remember...there are two people in every M. Stop beating yourself. Start to GAL. For me, I took motorcycle lessons, salsa lessons and my next GAL is to go back to playing my bagpipes which I have put down for several years. RUN....get to the gym..enjoy the endorphins. I feel much better and my mind is much clearer after exercising. Did you put on a few lbs? Lose them."

Boy, I could sure use a little release from blaming myself. I've really raked myself over the coals for the past several months. It's funny you mention motorcycle lessons, that's something that I've wanted to do for a long time! And yes, the gym is a great release for me as well. I go three times a week, and I want to get there more often. You are right, the endorphin release and the fact that it gets your mind off of the situation is like magic.

"For the most part right now, you need to back off, stay calm and do something really tough...keep a PMA (positive mental attitude). Women are like bloodhounds, they can sniff out anger, fear, etc.

Back off on the telling her what you are doing. Create MYSTERY NOT JEALOUSY."

I understand about the backing off part, but the tricky part for me is that she seems to want to push things forward at light speed. That makes me feel like I need to do something quickly or it will be over before I know it. I'm unsure how to balance those two things.

"And finally, the OM thing. This is most difficult for me to post as sometimes I still don't believe. I KNEW that my W would have a PA when my bomb occurred. She had to test and change everything..new body, new clothes, new car...eventually it would have to be me. When people told me she was having an A last year, I didn't believe it. Well..it was an EA (emotional affair) not a PA (physical affair). But the PA occurred when I was at my height of getting better....a 'backseater' one -timer. BUT...I knew something was up...she needed to go to the library on a night when the house was empty and she had pulled off her engagement ring only weeks before. Trust me...painful times."

Man, I'm sorry to read about your situation there. I feel sometimes like I don't know what I would do if I had proof of a PA (or EA for that matter) but one thing I feel for sure is that I need to know, one way or the other.

"I can tell you that it is VERY difficult to decide what to do if you are suspicious of this. They say that if you THINK it is happening, it probably is."

SO glad to hear you say that. SO GLAD. In one of our counseling sessions it came up that I suspected her of cheating, and when the counselor asked me why, I told her that I just had that 'feeling' that you get. She looked at me like I had three heads. I could not agree with you more; people just know that something is up.

"The double edge sword about this is that if you get caught snooping and get caught up in fear-based behavior, it may crush any chances you have of reconciliation."

Okay, so here's a somewhat short story that I think directly relates to what you said. I DID snoop, and I DID get caught. I was checking her cell phone and got caught. I came clean, told her what I was doing and I apologized. She said, 'did you find what you were looking for?' and i said no. I only checked a few of her recent call list before I got caught. The thing I really was after was the text messages received. Anyway, we had a talk about me looking in her phone and I thought it was resolved. More recently she told me that that is what helped push her over the edge because she didn't want to continue to make me feel like I had to check her phone.

Now, as an aside to this story, we go back to that counseling session I was talking about earlier when I said that I had that 'feeling.' The reason that was brought up in the session was that I met my W before the session at a coffee house. I told her that there was something I needed to tell her. When we met, I told her that I decided that if we get back together I couldn't live with not knowing if she had cheated on me. So, IF we got back together I would have to have her submit to a lie detector test. I said that that would be the only way I could be sure. When I said that to her, she started crying a whole bunch. I was surprised, and asked her why she was crying. She said, 'I thought you were going to show up here with divorce papers.' Things seemed to go downhill after that as far as our R.

Now, what I'm wondering is, is it possible that she had an affair but it's over? So that, she may at one time have been entertaining the idea of reconciliation but now that she knows that I would make her take a lie detector test (that she would fail) she realizes that it is pointless?


"What will you do with this?
If you find out, will it change how you feel?
If she did have an A, would you take her back and find forgiveness?"

Great questions there. I've thought a LOT about it. There was a time when I would have unequivocally said that if someone cheated on me that that would be it. I would walk right out and that would be it. Well, things tend to change when it's actually happening to you. Not sure where I stand now. Here is what I think at the moment. If she cheated, she didn't do it to hurt me. She did it because our marriage was lacking something she needed. However, it DID hurt me so I would need to know everything about what happened and why. Then I think we'd need to go to more counseling to help us deal with it. Could I move past it? I don't know, that's a tough one. One year down the line, if we're having a heated argument, would I bring it back up? Honestly, I'm not sure right now.

I thank you again for making me think about things differently than I have been. Hopefully by doing the things that I need to do, she will want to come back. If not, and I lose her, at least I know that I've started making myself better.


Current thread

Me-38
W-31
No Kids
Bomb-10/10/06
She moved out very soon after, and is filing for divorce very soon.
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