I just read something on another post (#1142002) that sums up better than I could what I feel the real problem is:
"I personally think that HD/LD consists of more than just frequency, but the actual ability to express desire for someone. My H will gladly ML once a week (now anyway). If he could show desire for me through out the week and build up the anticipation of our ML I might be content with that. However, we have a pretty platonic relationship up until the point we do ML. It almost makes the once a week seem meaningless."
This is from a wife's point of view, obviously, but the point is the same: it's about knowing that you're desired, and building up the anticipation before the act. If she could do that, I'd be the happiest man alive.
She's told me before that she doesn't know how to initiate communication about sex, even though she says she wants it at times.
Her religious upbringing and social conditioning are responsible for this hang-up, I believe. She has overcome many things in her life, though (which I admire her for). Maybe she can overcome this ...
I had a breakthrough realization yesterday, just after making that last post. What I need from her is not higher frequency of sex. It's not even more foreplay (although that is important too). It is to know that she is thinking about it in between times, and that she desires me. I need to be teased, and have the anticipation of a sexual encounter to come. (This also requires her to plan an encounter and take the initiative - something she never does).
When I realized that this was my need, it was like a dark cloud was lifted from me. I realized that this is a concrete, finite, doable thing that we (mainly she) can work on.
As I mentioned, she finds these things very difficult to express. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of times she's expressed her sexuality verbally in 12 years of marriage. So, I talked to her last night about it, after the kids were in bed.
It went predictably badly, at first. She got immensely angry, and accused me of putting all kinds of pressure on her, when she is trying to juggle going to school and taking care of the kids. She said she didn't know how to be that way. I acknowledged that is was going to be hard for her, but let her know as gently as I could that this is not negotiable, and that I have a deep need that can only be filled that way and only by her. I said that if she was not willing to step outside of her comfort zone and do this, we would have a problem.
She took this on board, and said that she would try. I even said that I would write down the things I need to hear (since I can articulate them very well) on small pieces of paper, that she could leave for me to find somewhere, so that she doesn't have to come up with the words herself. She didn't like that suggestion, but I will still give her the pieces of paper anyway, as food for thought.
So, hopefully, things will get better. They have to really, because keeping the status quo is not an option here. I hope to have some good news to report back in a few weeks.
After she's got this down, we'll work on spontenaeity, and after that, fetishes. But, one thing at a time.
Andrew, You didn't seem to want to answer my first post, but I feel the need to ask you another question.
What have YOU been doing lately to make her feel sexy??? To feel like she can bring these things up & to take away the daily hum-drums of taking care of the house, children and you.?
I hope this works for you... but seriously, until you realize you can't control her feelings (which is what you're trying to do), you're not going to get what you need.
She needs to get there herself... not you pushing her towards it.
May it be eternal while it lasts.
My sitch
Me: 36
H:34
M: 5 years
Bomb: 03/14/06
Quote: I hope this works for you... but seriously, until you realize you can't control her feelings
I don't think he's trying to control her feelings... well, he is, but what he's really asking for is a change in behavior and hoping that the change in feelings will follow. Anyone can change their behavior, no matter how they're feeling. Mojo had a great post on that, about how regular sexual interaction is one of the rituals of marriage that keeps it going, like eating dinner together, decorating the Christmas tree, greeting each other at the beginning and end of the day, attending church together. Even if you don't feel like doing it every time, these are RITUALS that the marriage needs to distinguish it from other more superficial relationships.
Quote: Andrew, You didn't seem to want to answer my first post, but I feel the need to ask you another question.
I tried to answer your question in my next post - the answer was that the situation has been the same throughout our marriage. No better or worse when our circumstances were any different.
Quote:
What have YOU been doing lately to make her feel sexy??? To feel like she can bring these things up & to take away the daily hum-drums of taking care of the house, children and you.?
I've been telling her I love her, that she is my queen, that I desire her and think she's beautiful. I've been helping with the kids (getting them up, taking to school, putting to bed) and doing housework chores here and there.
Quote:
I hope this works for you... but seriously, until you realize you can't control her feelings (which is what you're trying to do), you're not going to get what you need.
She needs to get there herself... not you pushing her towards it.
She tells me she does feel sexual sometimes, but doesn't know how to express it. It's a great big inhibition for her. This is the crux of the problem - the inhibition (as well as the LD). I told her that for the sake of our marriage, she needed to work on overcoming it, and doing some things that were outside of her comfort zone if necessary.
Quote: I hope this works for you... but seriously, until you realize you can't control her feelings
I don't think he's trying to control her feelings... well, he is, but what he's really asking for is a change in behavior and hoping that the change in feelings will follow. Anyone can change their behavior, no matter how they're feeling. Mojo had a great post on that, about how regular sexual interaction is one of the rituals of marriage that keeps it going, like eating dinner together, decorating the Christmas tree, greeting each other at the beginning and end of the day, attending church together. Even if you don't feel like doing it every time, these are RITUALS that the marriage needs to distinguish it from other more superficial relationships.
Yes, I agree that the rituals are important and sometimes one isn't going to want to do it, but will do it anyway to please the other. However, from what I understand, she never initiates. She never has - her sexual awareness is low. She doesn't feel like it most of the time. Wouldn't it be easier to awaken those things in her than to have her feel pressured to do it, so that he wont leave her? How long can that last?... truthfully? Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the situation, which is why I asked the initial questions.
May it be eternal while it lasts.
My sitch
Me: 36
H:34
M: 5 years
Bomb: 03/14/06
------------------------------------------------------- She tells me she does feel sexual sometimes, but doesn't know how to express it. It's a great big inhibition for her. This is the crux of the problem - the inhibition (as well as the LD). I told her that for the sake of our marriage, she needed to work on overcoming it, and doing some things that were outside of her comfort zone if necessary.
------------------------------------------------
Did she say why she has this inhibition? Is it a morals thing? Or is she perhaps afraid you'll say no or maybe is she embarrassed about her body?
I don't mean to say you're at fault here Andrew, what I'm trying to do is see it from her position, because you must agree, that it would be great for her to do this of her own volition, right?
May it be eternal while it lasts.
My sitch
Me: 36
H:34
M: 5 years
Bomb: 03/14/06
If she's inhibited THAT in and of itself, is a difficult thing to overcome....for anyone.
I like the fact that you gave her notes she could leave you, but honestly....I wasn't surprised it didn't thrill her. Why? Because it's not genuine to her. Nice attempt though in my book.
What I would suggest is....think about things that she currently DOES do.....things that might be physical in nature, like perhaps rubbing your shoulders. Something you like, that maybe she also does for you that she doesn't necessarily think about...something in other words she already does. Then let her know, "I'll try to recognize when you do x, y, or z that you are letting me know you'd like sex.....so I'll ask if you are in the mood." I know it doesn't seem like much, and it still seems you are the one initiating....but it's a step for her....and one that's not so awkward for her. She can do something she already comfortably does....and you agree to pick up on that action and then clarify the intent behind it. You can then build on that.
It's also important for you to understand that because of the busy lives we all lead...some people may have a fleeting though about having sex with their mate, but it's just a second and then something else takes their attention, like work, school, children, chores....whatever (women with families are often prone to this to varying degrees). Also, many people are desire after arousal people...and it is absolutely not a personal thing directed at you. My H has a combination of both, plus some other issues added in for fun! LOL He also cannot seem to step across whatever it is that's holding him back to show me the type of desire I'd like to see, but I accept him for who he is now...and deal with it in other ways. One of the things I do now that works for us is this.....I ask him if he thinks that we could manage to "get together" (he's not comfortable with graphic talk most of the time) sometime within a 3-4 day time frame (usually a weekend, and I bring it up on Friday). This does a few things for us.
#1 It gets him thinking about sex(this is very important)
#2 "I" don't feel as though I'm having to full-force initiate everything.
#3 It gives him the opportunity to pick the "when" without feeling pressured that it has to be "NOW", knowing I'm going to be fine with it, even if it ends up being that we have sex at Midnight on Sunday.......so in some ways it helps a bit with spontenaiety.
#4 "HE" has to be the to actually physically initiate the encounter....or I let it drop.
Now, there have been times he's agreed and not followed through. I don't remind him about that unless he does that repeatedly....then when I ask "do you think we can "get together""....I add to it, and don't say yes unless you will follow through." Usually when I find I have to say this....he gets thoughtful and realizes he hasn't followed through lately....so he's not holding true to his own word to me.
You might just try something along these lines with your W. It might feel a bit more genuine to both of you. At least it works fairly well for us. We still don't have sex as often as I'd like, but hey.....it's still much more frequently than it had been.
Those are some good things to think about. I may well be able to use at least some of those of those suggestions.
Sandy hit the nail on the head when she said that W has a low sexual awareness. This is my W through and through - she just doesn't think about it most of the time, whereas I think about it all the time. And she is usually desire after arousal. Maybe we will have to come up with some way in which we can create the environment for sex and then she can initiate, or something like that.
One thing we used to do that we don't any more is cuddle in bed naked, without it necessarily leading to anything. That was always nice. Oh that there was a magic wand to change her into a HD person, but there isn't. I know you can identify with that, GEL.
I thought it was time I painted a fuller picture of who my wife is, and what I love about her, to redress the balance in this thread a bit.
She is a loving and devoted mother to our 3 daughters. She would lay her life down for either me or them. She is fierce in her devotion to us, and wants only the best for us. If anyone threatens any of us, she will come out swinging in our defense, like a cornered animal protecting its cubs.
Her stated goal, before we even got married, was to make me happy. That is still her goal (which is why I think we can work on these issues auccessfully). She believes all things, hopes all things, and endures all things. When she loves, she loves completely.
She is in some ways a simple soul, with no need of the complicated trappings of modern life. She is at her happiest when she's with us, and the love in our family life is humming along. Material things are neither here nor there to her.
Her faith in God is beautiful to see. She is a true Proverbs 31 wife. She spends time in prayer every day. She is committed to her own personal growth, and working in her own ways on the issues she knows she has.
She is physically beautiful. She's not a supermodel, but she is good looking (and to me she's beautiful of course ). She is tall and skinny, with a good figure. She wasn't always that way - she had weight loss surgery a few years ago, and lost 145 lbs to get to where she is now. Which brings me to another point - she's not afraid to take risks. She weighs things up carefully, but when a course of action is obviously right, she will take it, even though it's scary.
So, I hope that paints more of a picture of what I love about her. The rest of our relationship is so good - it's just the sex part that needs to catch up.
). She is tall and skinny, with a good figure. She wasn't always that way - she had weight loss surgery a few years ago, and lost 145 lbs to get to where she is now. Which brings me to another point - she's not afraid to take risks. She weighs things up carefully, but when a course of action is obviously right, she will take it, even though it's scary.