Quote: wouldn't it have been easier to have attended a good round of MC?
Part of me wonders if it wouldn't be good for me to insist on pre-M MC with my future spouse. Likely, he'll be D, too, and getting stuff out there might be a good idea. Thanks for prompting my thought here.
Obviously different for different people but David and I *DID* attend counseling before getting married, several times. I was sure we would get off on the right foot.
Pam
"We must be willing to let go of the life we had planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us"
Quote: We talked about her need to look into Catholicism for herself - not for me, and how the annulment process will involve pain.
Very wise, methinks. Do you get any feeling that she's looking into it "for" you, or maybe she just likes what you get from it? Does she practice any religion regularly now?
Quote: There's a part of my brain that still thinks - wouldn't it have been easier to have attended a good round of MC? Much less effort, pain, and struggle then all this that has unfolded since the D. Tho, it takes 2 to tango.
It (MC) doesn't work if there aren't two spouses working it. It possibly would have been less pain, at least less pain for the kids, but it's a lot of effort.
And to continue the hijack, Michele, I've thought about the need for pre-M MC, too. I've seen a lot of writers bemoan the lack of preparation most couples have.
I've also wondered how much of that is my tendency to try "planning around a problem." I do believe it's a good idea to do some counseling together, probably with an MC. But I wonder if part of my motivation is an attempt to ensure that I don't have to go through this again. The bare truth is that the only "guarantees" will be the wedding vows, and it will be a matter of trust. After the pain, can we trust/love again? To me, that's the big post-D question and a major focus of my desire to heal.
Thanks,
Joe
My sitch More importantly, Light A Million Candles
Joe, I think about the work of Markman and Notarius (their book, "We Can Work It Out", and their research informed the work of John Gottman)... if you could establish good communication skills early; if you could develop methods for dealing effectively with disagreement; if you could have some agreements in place beforehand, then maybe, just maybe, you could have a different second marriage than the first.
I have to say that I agree that MC really works best when both people are committed. That was especially true in my case -- see, Dr. Notarius was our MC. Even with all his skill, his specialty in couples communications and his general kind-heartedness, XH wasn't a full participant.
Anyhoo, that's my experience. Perhaps my next M experience will be markedly different.
Quote: if you could establish good communication skills early; if you could develop methods for dealing effectively with disagreement; if you could have some agreements in place beforehand, then maybe, just maybe, you could have a different second marriage than the first.
I agree. All of those are the kinds of traits and habits that I didn't learn from my parents or any kind of pre-M classes. I just have a tendency these days to wonder if my motivations are as simple as my first impressions of them.
I posted more than a year ago how I'd want to meet with XW's T before considering any reconciliation. There's a real good chance that any marriage will be to someone who's also divorced. So my train of thought led me once to wanting to know what she'd done to "save" her M. Then I realized that it was, at least in part, a desire to ensure the next M will last.
There ain't any such guarantees. If I'm going to marry again, I'm going to have to take my chances at trusting someone, and she's going to have to trust me. I wonder if that's a field in counseling ripe for special work. After all, the baggage people carry out of D, even people who work hard on themselves, is in addition to whatever we carried into our first Ms. And it's different, coming in the context of adult R.
Thanks,
Joe
My sitch More importantly, Light A Million Candles
Wrapping up my application for tenure this week. Yikes! Very stressful. Nothing like the S/D, but stressful nonetheless. Interestingly, I'm confident about what I've accomplished, but have fear related to XW. Her need to paint herself as a victim rather than to maturely walk away from a M that she did not want/value is likely to cause noise. I guess I'm keeping my expectations low.
In terms of my stress management, I went to Savannah this weekend with Nurse and stayed at a bed-n-breakfast there. While driving there, S7's school called - XW had failed to pick him up and it was 1 hr later than pickup time. I was ~ 1.5 hrs away at the time, so I called a good friend/co-worker to pick him up and take him to my house. Then XW called, not apologizing but noting that it was a babysitter's fault.
Lots of walking around, lots of shopping, and I was able to clear my head of swirling thoughts for a bit. Lots of eating as well - didn't quite like that. I think Nurse enjoys eating more than I do. I need tackle that - there's a health emphasis/imbalance b/t us. Maybe her relaxed stance is the healthier one.
Upon my return to town on Sun, I called S7 to wish him g'night, and he noted pointedly that "Mom has a new BF and he's gonna live with us for 10 days." I'll talk to him further about it (without pumping) to just check in re safety. S7 also noted that he spent an overnight at a child's house over the weekend without my approval. This same child fondled S7 ~ 1.5 years ago. I'm baffled by her judgment calls and will have to address it - not looking forward to it as she'll likely go ballistic.
Yes, she may go ballistic but if it is in the best interest of S7 and keeping him healthy and safe, you must do what needs to be done. Her choices seem to be very irratic and off right now. I can't imagine bringing a man into my home and sleeping with him with my kids here. Remember to document, document, document!!!
Hugs -
WCB
God grant me the serenity,
to accept the things I cannot change,
To change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.
- Reinhold Niebuhr
I talked to XW and sent her an email repeating our conversation, and was very specific about my concerns, noting dates and times of prior events, and pointing out S7's need to be protected.
The school sent a notice regarding his late arrival to school yesterday, stating that he will fail every period/topic of school for which he arrive late. I signed and copied the school note, and forwarded it on to her.
Altho I offered to keep him overnight, she declined, and at dropoff spent her part of the conversation noting why circumstances and S7 were to blame for much of what occurred. Just like in the M, she is too afraid to admit fault. I feel sorry for her in that regard, cause its so obviously immature. When she blamed S7 for getting to school late - wouldn't eat his breakfast fast enough, I commented, "But you're the parent." I had S7 get out of the car, for one more hug, and told him he was the best boy in the whole wide world, but that he had to eat well to learn well in school.
I got the sense that XW has sobered a bit. I thanked her for some soccer equipment that S7 will need this weekend (with me - yay!), and kept my interactions with her firm but warm. When she said "I know that you're just stressed about tenure" as if to explain that I've communicated these things to her b/c I'm grumpy and tired, I said, "No. I just love our son. We have one wonderful amazing son, and I don't want anything to happen to him."
Nurse called today to note that she had several bits of skin cancer iced and cut out, with another forehead section requiring a "Mohs" surgery. I really feel for her, but she seems to be solid about it. Part of life being fair-skinned in FL, I imagine. She agreed to go out and buy more sun-screen (supposed to be wearing it daily, but not ).
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