Once again F4W - I am feeling exactly the same as you. My W is preparing to file and since I cannot work on my M - W sees D as the only option - this will be a financial battle. I suspect she will occuse me of trying to screw her financially because I know she has absolutely no clue how any of this works.
Hang in there. Your W wants only what she wants now. It is unfortunate - but it is reality. I too hope that time heals all wounds. I guess we have to keep the faith and hope for the best. In the mean time, we have to protect ourselves as well.
F4 Hang in there. There is hope but quit trying to control (like the other man comment)... All you want is agreement on a plan of action with W - leave all of the peripherals alone.
She agreed to counseling - go start interviewing them now. She wants to sell the house - it is moving forward ... just leave it alone.
No more fights - just give her the details and let her chew on them. She needs to realize that she need to make decisions now and cannot depend on you for this.
Not sure who or anyone will read this after falling off the board and trying to put it all together.
We had or first counseling session yesterday with a counselor that I like and believe in, just a gut feeling. She is honest and insightful and does not pull punches.
Spent the first 40 minutes recapping all that has occured in last 6 months and also two years. She asked some very direct questions and did a lot of listening. Asked about our beginning and how we met and knew we loved each other and reasons for getting married. It was very emotional for me. The stories aligned somewhat although my recolection of good times was greater. She acknowledged that I am a person that feels comfortable being vulnerable with my W. She then asked if my W was ever vulnerable with me. She replied no, she never was and never has been. She always felt she had to take care of the men in her relationships and the relationships. C found that very interesting. Overall the first 40 minutes were civil. Then came the final minutes.
Wife started about my constantly emailing and texting, asking where we were and what we are going to do. Saying I have put her through hell the past 2 months since she filed. Accusing her of hiding money and things of that nature. As the counselor started to tell her she was no longer interested in the past few months but about the future I interupted and said I had to make a comment. What I said was this" Wife, I see I need to be honest and break a promise I made. I made a vow to a person never to tell what I am going to relate. The reason I was so inquisitive and looking for things was your sister informed me that you told her that you had been taking money out of our account in preparation for the D. My love and marriage is more important than my promise to your sister." This set her in a frenzy. Shaking, crying, almost seizure like. She was screaming at me that I am puttingh er over the edge, that she cannot stand to be in the same room as me. That she never said that to her sister. The counselor intervened and said "Mrs. F4W, cannot you see what you H just did? He broke a promise because he felt you needed to know. He is being real and vulnerable with you. What is causing your reaction?" Wife had no response. C started in that she believes that my wife has never been vulnerable with man in a relationship. That she is suppressing the real reason for her reaction and deflecting it twords me as being the bad guy. Wife continued in her tirade. Counselor closed the session with homework. That we had to spend 30 minutes together alone, and talk about anything but our relationship. Wife said she could not. That she cannot do it. C asked if 10 minutes was doable. She agreed reluctantly. So we are doing Coffee on Friday. The C is adamnet that we start to be relaxed and understand each other again.
She also stated that by my wife's reaction she was disappointed and asked my wife if she was really here for the marriage or if she was here to end the marriage, my wife answered she did not know.
So I have agreed to not talk to my wife about anything but the kids. It seems as if the path is set, I hope there is a miracle in the future.
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
F4W - it is good to hear from you again, even if I am saddened that you are still under such tremendous pressure. However - your W IS going to C (even if she is not entirely sure of how to get the best from it) and you have some good clues here from her emotional reaction to any level of 'pressure.'
IMHO, she is NOT ready to discuss her feelings, your M in too much depth; you are far more emotionally ready for that than she is. So perhaps you could go back to her pace and give her time to feel comfortable with you again.
Maybe even talking about the K's is too inflamatory - after all they are part of the 'R' and it might be impossible to talk about them without your W feeling guilt - which will just make her angry again.
If you have 10 minutes together on Friday, could you just make it fun? Or relaxed? Maybe start by saying '(Wife) I appreciate you letting me know your true feelings in the C session and I promise I have taken your comments on board. Instead of beating ourselves up more, why don't we just have a break and enjoy this next 10 minutes as friends. Let's agree not to talk about the K's or our R - let's just have a coffee and chat.'
Let her go away from that 10 minutes feeling uplifted in some way. Compliment her (not too much - just 'you look really well' or 'that's a great outfit BTW'), talk about politics, sports, her job, the other people in the cafe - ANYTHING but the 2 of you.
If your W can go away from your coffee feeling that she has had a nice, relaxing 10 minutes with a good friend - chances are she will want to do it again.
Slowly does it F4W - I am rooting (as always) for you!
I don't know that I could do C with my W right now. I guess W agreeing to go to C is a good thing - although your first session ended in fireworks!
It is hard to separate out what our Ws are going through. Your W has pent up anger - again - you are (and have to be) the target of this anger. Believe me - I have come to know this.
Quote: So I have agreed to not talk to my wife about anything but the kids. It seems as if the path is set, I hope there is a miracle in the future.
I learned this too. My W keeps ambushing me about D papers - really throws me off my game. I keep my communication with her to the children.
I know how you feel. I hope there are miracles in store for all of us. I will pray for you my friend! Hopefully your future C sessions will improve and you can get your M on a path to recovery.
So glad to hear from you and to hear that at least your wife went to C with you. Your C does sound insightful so hopefully this will be a good start.
Quote: So I have agreed to not talk to my wife about anything but the kids.
What does this mean? That the conversation on Friday will only be about the kids? Or just in general you will only talk about the kids?
I ask because my thought is to talk about some things that she is (or was) interested in (Movies, TV show, sports, books, etc.) or maybe just to ask her about work and, here's the key, let her talk and not try to solve anything for her or judge her or anyone else in her "story". My guess is that she may try, consciously or unconsciously, to tempt you into relationship talk or old behavior. Think of it this way, what if this was your first date (meeting) with her?
Overall I would say that now is a great time for you to back off on relationship talk because you have a good counselor. Let the C lead those conversations for the two of you.
Good Luck on Friday. I'll say a prayer for you!!
Fearless
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Good to see you are still in there fighting. I know it's difficult. You are a special man for what you are doing for your W and family.
I can't add much to the great advice you have already gotten. I just want to emphasize that you MUST refrain from the R talk and stay focused and detach. W will be looking to validate her actions and reasons by your reactions. She will bate you consciously and unconsciously into proving her case that YOU cannot and will not change. I've been there. XW still talks about things that I know are not true. She is doing all she can to still reinforce her decision. You just have to let go. Don't fight it...You can't. Unless you have video evidence she will never believe you. I don't doubt that she told her sister about hiding the money but in her state she will truly believe that is not true. I had my share of conversations that never took place or things that she never said to friends or family.
I'll also pray for you Bro. This has been one long journey and a great test of faith for you. As I wrote above...You ARE a special man.
I am the man who is loving my kids and will keep them from continuing this cycle of destruction.
Your sitch reminds me of the 3rd MC my W and I visited. This was a "Christian" MC, and so I thought that his religious background would at least give my "doomed" M (which, at the time, it was) a fighting chance. Boy, was I wrong! During our 2nd session, I got "side swapped". The MC proclaimed our M DOA. I remember how pathetic I became during, and - especially - after that session.
To make my long story short, my W eventually filed for D. I kinda got my act together, applied the LRT and other principles, and was able to Bust my D. However, eventually, my M got into trouble again. I realize now that the LRT and other "principles", at least in my experience, cannot be maintained indefinitely. But then I came across this other source of info, which was recommended by another DB member (I can't recall his name). Anyhow, that website, including their e-book and free newsletters, have put my M in the right direction - for the 1st time in years.
I'll share some a couple of their writings:
We get in a rut, we spend years seeking a woman's approval, or looking to her to feed our self-esteem, when we should be looking to ourselves. She probably has none of her own, or none to spare. We mistakenly think that things get stale and boring because that's the way they are supposed to be, and that's the price we pay for sex, and then the sex stops, too, but we look at the calendar and think that we're better off putting up with it than to give up half or more of everything we've earned and a big chunk of our future earnings to get out of it and have a life.
Unless we are with some kind of parasite or predator, or someone with whom we are grossly mismatched and never should have married, life doesn't have to be like that at all. The truth is that she probably got bored at the same time we did, or even before, if she's like most women, and would love for things to be fun and exciting again. Women don't like crises that cause major changes in their life (like divorce!) any more than we do. What does it take?
It doesn't take much at all! It takes knowing whether you have the foundation for a good relationship. It takes knowing how you and your wife differ as man and woman, and using those differences to enhance your relationship instead of allowing them to remain points of contention, competition, and frustration.
It takes learning three simple rules that govern all communication with a woman, and using them to hear things she's been telling you for years that you never knew you were being told. It takes shedding the "nice guy" programming that you're drowning in, and getting back to being the "real guy" that your Y-chromosome has set you up to be, strong, competent, fun, and feeling good about yourself, and not some unattractive, unappealing wuss.
Chicks dig real men, alpha males, who know what they want, and walk through the world earning it, knowing that they deserve it, and holding their head high as they do so, eyes fixed on either their next achievement or their partner's sexy self. Good things come their way because they're worthy of good things, not because they can coerce people (including making them feel guilty) into providing them.
I know how much you love it when your own words come back to haunt you. So, here goes... I remember a good friend of mine telling me once that our pains and sorrows are a part of us. It is our right to feel and have emotions over our losses and events that cause us pain. I want to remind that friend of that right now. F4W, that is not struggling... That is LIFE. It is what will help us in this difficult process. You know this more than the rest.
As you often do, I will use an analogy here... What you are going through reminds me of a newborn baby animal... It is as if you are trying to learn how to walk... It can be a little awkward... you stumble a little bit.... And, the everyday things you would do with your wife, you don't always do anymore. It can be a scary feeling because it is uncharted territory. But, at the same time... it is forcing you to re-discover yourself and take it to another level. F4W, this is you. You have grown so much and you continue to grow on a daily basis.
I am filled with such admiration for the way you have handled this difficult time in your life. I know that there were many times that I thanked God that you were in my life during my seperation/divorce. Your friendship and positive outlook on life kept me going. You reminded me that it is alright to hurt, to be angry, and to forgive myself, and for that I will be forever grateful.
F4W... my thoughts go with you, as well as my prayers. I hope each day brings a reminder of who you are now and I truly hope there will be happier times ahead for you.
Thank you again for being such a good friend. In case I have not said it in a while... You are the best! Thinking of you, ~OC Kim
