If you’ve kept up with my thread you may recall that I recently confronted my W about committing to the marriage. My reasons are basically the same as those listed in that article, plus the added reason that my W uses this back door escape hatch as a control weapon. If she doesn’t like something, she always reserves the option to bail out. She wants the ability to quickly run in any direction. To not have this option makes her feel like a trapped animal and her anxieties kick in.
But you are past that point now and so is she. I think you also do yourself harm by maintaining you loyalty to her even after you divorce. At one time my W thought we should just separate. Her idea was to convert the garage into living quarters so I could come and go as I pleased, see other women and be close to the kids too. I told her that sounded good to me but she would be the one living in the garage, not me. I was staying in my house and she could get out.
NOPkins commented to me that I should tell her that in the event of divorce I should not be her friend, and I believe that is the correct stance to take. If your objective is to save the marriage, divorce must be an extremely distasteful option. I told W that if we divorced, I had not intention of being her friend, nor did I even intend to be nice to her and only speak the minimum needed to coordinate with the kids. While I understood child custody is stacked against fathers, I would also fight to for as much of my rights as possible. All of this shook her world, I totally destroyed the little fantasy idea she had in her mind.
She was thrown back into dealing with the marriage and me, whether she liked it or not. And I did not care one bit whether she liked it. I only cared that she changed. Once we stepped up to the brink of divorce, she saw how scary it looked on the other side and chose to back down and find a way out of that mess. We have been moving forward ever since, with a few minor backslides along the way.
Unfortunately it may be too late for you to take this advice. Maybe you can tell her you have a change of heart and in your own interests you will fight her tooth and nail if the divorce proceeds and hate her with all you heart the rest of your life (or something like that). But if she will back off divorce, without any promise to commit to the marriage, and keep an open mind, then you will do all you can to change for her and make the marriage work. But be sure to listen to Blackfoot. Negotiate this from a position of strength, not begging. Lay out the terms and expectations, the roadmap, full disclosure, and ask her to do the same. The time for games is over and as soon as you find out she is bluffing or posturing, you call your lawyer and tell him to file. It is time for the both of you to grow up and get serious.
That is what I did. It worked for me and saved my marriage. See what might work for you. Hang in there!
Quote: Corri, for the past several years I have done the bulk of the care of the children and I did so with very little resentment until the last year. So this would not be a change for me. Logistics would be the major change. But I am capable, wife just never asked for help or took it when I offered.
I'm confused. You say you did the bulk of the childcare, yet you also said that your wife never took your help when you offered. If you were doing the bulk of the childcare, why would she be asking you for assistance?
When I asked if you trusted your wife to take care of your kids you said:
Quote: No. I mean that she is not neglectful of abusive. She is just a "Disneyland" mom most of the time. She lets the kids violate boundries and get away with anything they want.
If you were the primary childcare provider, you would have been setting the boundaries, no? And she could only have been Disneyland mom if you had allowed it. Did the two of you talk at all about what was appropriate and inappropriate?
You say your children are 10, 7 and 4. Explain to me, from the view of what is in the best interst of your kids, how such young children would be better off without the presence of their mother for the bulk of the time.
Someone on here made the comment that NOP suggested that when going through a divorce, you say you don't agree with it, you have no intention of being her friend, and you will keep communication to a minimum if the D goes through.
I don't agree with this, especially when children are involved.... IF you are thinking of what is in their best interest. You and your STBX will have to talk, and on a very frequent basis, to keep each other apprised of what is occuring with your kids. If you don't do this, you are going to set yourselves up to be manipulated by your children. They will KNOW you don't talk, and they will take advantage of that fact... not because you have 'bad' children, but because there will be nothing in place to teach them that this is not appropriate... for you do not communicate.
For your children's sake, it will be important for both of you not to set yourselves up as martyr's, at least in your children's eyes. You will both have to work together to help your kids understand that the split came from two adults unable to solve their problems, and that the split had nothing to do with them and the love you BOTH have for them.
Most states now... well... many states... attempt, as best they can, to set up co-parenting arrangements in order to keep both parents as active and involved in the kids lives as possible. This is a b!tch for them. They will adapt best by the two of you establishing a routine as quickly as possible, being as consistent with rules and boundaries from house to house as possible, and communicating on at least a weekly basis on what is occuring in the kids lives from house to house.
You may not want this divorce, in any way, shape or form, but if it goes through, it will be paramount for you and your W to keep the kids best interest at heart at the very top of your lists... and that will require you to put your anger, depression and resentment toward your W aside, and vice versa.
Your children will adjust based on how you and your W handle yourselves. They will go through all kinds of emotions, and if they feel safe in expressing themselves, within a proper framework, it will help them significantly. If they feel they must stuff their emotions in order not to upset you or their mother, their issues will linger and morph. It will be very important for the kids to feel that they have some measure of control and venue of expression in their own lives. Again, this will require that you and your STBX communicate frequently.
It is apparent to me, at least from reading your posts, that you have little respect for your wife. Understood. But that isn't going to help your kids. Are you in IC right now to work through your own emotions? If not, you may want to consider it... if not for yourself, for the sake of your kids.
Sorry for the delay. I will try and fill in the blanks I may have left.
I have and always have done the bulk of the care of our children for the past 9 years of our marriage. In referance to assisatnce, my wife took over the bill paying because she did not like my method of paying bills promptly at the beginning of the month and then budgeting money to savings and having limits on other spending. I would offer to help do the laundry, but would be rebuked with the statement I shrink the laundry or it is fine I am capable. To her, according to her declaration, I only stepped in when asked.
As to the boundaries for the kids. Yes we spoke many times. I stated how wrong it was to allow the kids to play one against the other and to have decisions undermined by her. Her response is they are kids and need to have fun, I am too strict with them and need to let them be kids. Example would be trying to get my 10 and 7 yo to bed between 9 and 9:30 on school nights. She would often allow them to sit in our bedroom with her or lay in our bed after I told them it was time for bed and watch tv with her. When I would assert my reasons for a good night sleep and they are too young to go on 7 hours sleep, again I am too strict and it is not that big of a deal.
I am not sure that being with my wife is the bestthing for my children. She has a view of her childhood where her father and mother divorced and the two daughters ran the roost. They did whatever the wanted. Got into alcohol in Jr High, stayed out late, had parties at there house, got into drugs, with little or no boundaries from their mother. This is what I fear. She often makes the statement that our kids will have everything she did not. She has a busy work schedule and is planning on having the grandparents watch the kids or friends watch the kids when she has to work. Me, I have already cleared with my supervisors and flexible schedule that accomodates any needs my kids may have. Again the boundaries, the nutrition, etc are not acceptable that my wife does. I cook for the family. I try and balance the nutrition the best I can with the likes and dislikes of the boys. The week I left for our "trial separation" the boys had McDonalds 3 mights for dinner and McDonalds at least twice for breakfast. This was just one week!
I agree with the communication piece. I am trying to establish this with her and it is not being well recieved. Her latest comment to me was I have no right to know what her plans are with the kids. I even tried last night to broach the subject of how we can get off the current path we are on and find an amicable solution and custody. She said she has tried and it will not work. She is not moving from her latest position. That being 2K in child support plus 600 for daycare on top. As well as I encumber 60% of the current bills AND pay half the mortgage (1K) until house sells. This will leave me with 300.00 left net. FAIR?
Corri, I hope you can understand that my children mean the most in my life. That used to be held by my STBXW. I have ured my heart and soul into raising them. To have them ripped away and then in addition be gouged financially, just crushes me.
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
I get up in the morning and make my day as best I can. Thanks for checking up on me.
Update...
Things are sinking deeper in the pit. It is not real pleasant at home and it has no signs of getting better. I try and be cordial and upbeat only to be provoked and I do not bite.
The court date is set for the 5th of July and I am not liking having people trying to pick sides.
I have found out from the exGF (April) of my wifes EX BF than 13 years ago before we got married that my STBXW showed up at his door at midnight (while April was living there) in a raincoat and nothing else. She opened the coat and said to him, you can marry me or I will marry F4W!.
This has not been a real fun night nor day. I am on the rollercoaster and find it hard to believe that the last 13 years were in fact a lie. How many other acts of trechary and infidelity have gone on that I do not know of?
F4W (trying to just keep his head up)
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
F4W, while there are always 2 sides to any story, I have always had the feeling from reading the FACTS in your posts that you have been the better parent for your kids. I do hope the kids aren't the ones who lose in this case. Having said that, and looking back to my childhood when my parents divorced....my father was never a parent to his kids, and mostly ran from any responsibility. I was about 8 or 10 I guess, I don't even remember, my sisters were all older and were not available when he wanted to see us (smarter than little old me). But I would go with him on Sundays, to the bar where his girlfriend was, and I had a great time playing games and the jukebox and collecting candy bars and dimes from all the other patrons that talked about how cute I was. At the end of the day or night, my 'father' would drive me back home, after drinking all day, a 45 minute drive. I don't have a clue how my mom allowed that to happen multiple times, the danger I was in by being with him driving in his condition, but she always let me go. I see it as her strength, to let me go and form my own opinion of my father. She never interfered, she never talked down about him. Eventually, when my mom tried to collect child support, good old dad skipped the state and never did pay a dime. I think she only went after child support because she knew he wouldn't pay, but he wouldn't hang around either. Moms way of protecting me without having to go face to face with an unreasonable person. When I turned legal age, he moved back, in fact he lashed at me for the neighborhood I was currently living in, and then moved in on the same block, but he never made more contact with me while he lived so close. My reason for laying this all out here, kids need to have the choice, to grow up with both parents influence, and they will mature with their own opinions. It will take longer than you would like it to, but it will happen.
Raincoat - why would this story surface now? for what purpose? are these people who you call friends?
Keep your chin up, sit tall in the saddle, look to the horizon.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Someone must be sane for the kids, of course, and it makes me very sad for you and all involved when two people can't even work together on child issues. It's he!!.
What I am talking about is the best case scenario, and unfortunately, it often does not occur. But I would encourage you to continue trying, as best as you are able.
As for all of the monetary issues she is throwing your way... get yourself a good attorney, which I am sure you have. I do not believe that any court would approve such utterly ridiculous, one-sided amount.
Get yourself set up in a home or apartment and make it kid ready as soon as you are able. Get documentation from your place of employment verifying your flex schedule. At least in my state, whenever a divorce occurs involving children, the court will appoint a state childworker to come in and monitor the living situation for the kids. They stay with the families until they file a report, making a recommendation of custody to the court. If you do not automatically get this, you can certainly request it.
In the meantime, continue to stay as involved with your kids as you have always been. Keep copious notes. A diary, if you will, of conversations, meals, etc., especially on child issues. Save every bill you pay, save every receipt on what you spend, and if you have access to your W's accounts, do so there as well.
I cannot tell you how important the diary is. As your stress increases, your memory gets... fuzzy. It may prove invaluable to you down the road, especially where your kids are concerned.
If you have the time and the money right now, I would encourage you to get into IC, especially to discuss how to best help your kids through this process. Again, I would always continue to try and work with your W, always extend the olive branch, especially through the D process, but no door mat service.
And again, document, document, document. Record where your children are and what they do with you, and as much as you are able, the same with your W. You may also want to suggest that in any situation involving the kids day care, the parents always has right of first refusal... try to get that added to the temporary orders, if you are able.
In many states, if one parent files for full-custody, it is encumbant upon the filing parent to prove the other as unfit. This will have an impact on your children. I'm not judging here, just trying to give you things to think about.
I am so sorry you are going through this. As corny as it sounds, I'd highly recommend that you start taking Flaxseed Oil (or better, Fish Oil suppplements), and a B-Complex with Vit. C. It helps your body ward off the effects of stress. I'm not kidding.... you probably won't notice any difference when you start taking them, but you will definitely notice a difference if you stop taking them for more than a day or two.
Quote: Corri, I hope you can understand that my children mean the most in my life. That used to be held by my STBXW. I have ured my heart and soul into raising them. To have them ripped away and then in addition be gouged financially, just crushes me.
Of course they do. I was not trying to insinuate anything less. In D cases where children are involved, they so often become the pawns of spousal anger and revenge. Keep your focus on them, and try not to panic. It would be the very worst thing you could do right now.
Thanks you. I do not know why I shared the raincoat deal, other than I need to get it out somewhere and here is best b/c it has not effect in my real world. There are other things that are falling into olace that I forgot or just deemed not possible during our 13 years. Now I do not know.
Thanks for the support.
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
I rarely need to keep notes lately, it seems that everything that goes on right now in my personal life seems to be very vivid, especially for the last 2 months. I can look at my calendar and almost recite the activities of the day.
My attorney is good, I feel. According to my wife and her attorney he is an idiot. The shizznit will hit the fan when I get home, I have had to call friends and her family requesting letters. I have asked them to be fair. If they would like to read her declaration I will provide it. I will provide my own for them to read also.
I have skeptical faith in the court system in Washington State. Although common sense would show that the CS is duely unfair and would place me in a bind.
I am trying so hard not to use the children as pawns, but in reality they are the ones whom I am most concerned about. I will survive, it will hurt tremndously, but I will survive.
I sit with my children and play with my children every day, it breaks my heart to think I would not be able to do this on a daily basis.
Thanks for the tips on the supplements. I have begun again the DB diet (D diet in my case now) and have dropped from a loose 36 to a loose 34 in the last 3 weeks. I force myself to eat but it comes only in minimal amounts.
I meet with my attorney today to finalize soem things. I am going to address the potential for joint custody and CS (60/40 seems very fair to me) and the need for payment of the bills. My salry gets reduced for the next 2 months because my duties are reduced seasonlly during the summer. Her plan is really unacceptble.
Again my wife is not neglegent, not an absent mother, but our children do need both of us, kind of a yin and yang thing.
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
it is me my friend. KTF. I have been watching over your sith for about a year now and have not replied to it. Just watching from the sidelines, but I feel as though now I should speak to you.
I hope you really really listen to everything I have to tell you man. It can really help your sitch right about now man.
First of all, a wise man always told me that the divorce is nothing but a piece of paper. That piece of paper does not change what you feel in your heart and you don't fully know what is in hers. So don't fear it. I know you are a very religious guy and know that "the laws of man" and "the laws of God" are totally different.
Secondly. I believe that you and your wife are going to get through this. She still has doubts. She still talks to you, but she is so angry. I remember when I was talking to my aunt about her divore from my uncle (they have been remarried for 10 plus years by the way) and how she described how much pain she had been in over the years and how that pain eventually turned into anger/resentment. It took her YEARS to get over all of those things and she said just the sight of my uncle made her angry. It brought back all of those feelings. (they have two children by the way.) So it's going to take time. That's all I can say man. Just pray about it. It's in God's hands. Let him work for you.
You have done alot man. you've been through so much, but remember all of this is a test of our faith. Marriage is a sacred institution ordained by God and the devil will do anything to destroy it. Have faith and trust in him my friend.
I have already been down the journey that you are traveling, but it gets better. Trust me.
I even jumped into a relationship right after the divorce to try to ease the pain, but all it did was complicate things even more.
The thing is exW and I have never stopped communicating. Heck I just sent her a reply to an email she sent me a reply.
She visits my place often and we have fun together. Mind you it's not all peaches and cream, but it's getting better.
You see I let her go, and she realized that she missed me. She dated. I dated. And we both realized that we missed each other. Sometimes you have to let something go (boomerang it) and let it come back to you.
I know you are hurting man. I hurt for a long time. Heck I still do. But I've gotten stronger. my whole sitch has changed me as a man. It's made a better father, christian, son, and friend.
I've worked on myself so much and alot of people have taken notice. They see the change in me. I see the change in myself. ANd it's that change that has attracted my exW back to me. (as well as a few other nice women lol)
The thing is man. I think you're still kind of crowding her. Everytime you say you love her, it guilts her into wanting to come back.
I did the same thing during my seperation. my exW came back because she loved me, but also because she had extreme guilt for what had happened. NOt because that was where she really wanted to be. She was intimate with me out of guilt (and having needs to).
But you're going to have to let her sort this out herself. I know it's going to hurt. I know you don't want it. But, she needs time to sort everything out. She may/may not be in an EA/PA but there's nothing you can do about it. She still has alot of pain inside and I think you do too.
I think you guys both need to heal. But I think you're on the right track.
You're a good father man. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Just keep on working hard, spending time with your kids, and letting wifey sort our her probs and you sort out/grieve and things will work out
