I am back from a family mini-vacation. The place reminded us of our honeymoon, and my H kept referring to the trip as a second honeymoon, throwing in that we have been more sexually connected now than then. He was really disappointed in our honeymoon...never confronted it...told me he was confused by the lack of sex( of course did nothing about it)...and it comes out 20 yrs later! So IHJ's H wins the conflict avoidance award on this BB.
Just some random thoughts here for now-- my kids are 13 and 11, at an age where they want/need some independence but want/need to be with us as well. And something I noticed is that they are really taking in the family dynamics( and are a big part of them)...you just can't hide stuff from them...it actually gets harder, not easier, as they get older. I think Cobra posted something about the way kids pick up the tension...and I find myself saying how much I want to heal the damage...create that functional, happy family feeling, and my H is on board with that too. My H and I are invested on helping our kids get stronger as well, but it starts by having peace and good feeling betwen the two of us.
And toward that end, H and I are so much more forgiving and accepting of each other. On the day we left, we ended up missing our flight ( due to H's timing miscalculations ). Normally this would set me off into a condescending, critical mode of feeling which would permeate through the rest of the trip....instead, I saw that he was really trying hard...he was devastated by it...I began to see that we both have our weak areas...we didn't understand each other...didn't understand ourselves...just had a lot of high expectations... and had so much disappointment along the way. Anyway, as luck would have it, we were able to get the last 4 seats on the next flight.
On another occasion, my H wanted to to take a spontaneous ferry ride excursion while I was " stuck" in wanting to just stay back at the hotel and do the beach thing( wanted him to take the kids). I was being really obstinate, but he insisted on us doing a family thing and we had a fun time. I began to see how some of my stubbornness impinges on his spontaneity, to the detriment of the marriage.
At one point he lost his temper with my son...son runs to me, and H and daughter align themselves, with H getting defensive about his role in it all. I was able to get through to H, really spoke my peace, told daughter to stop taking sides and aggravating the sitch, and she actually saw this too...and we all calmed down. And that is the goal...less friction, more happy times. In mny FOO, lound, escalating fighting was the norm ( my father was a lawyer, had good verbal skills...my mom liked to provoke, was very bright and good at this). In H's family, silent tension ruled...I think this one of the reasons why just getting along is so difficult. I have to re-read the part in PM about daring to be happy.
Sexually, things were very nice. Despite my H's moments of distraction, impulsivity, anger, when he's sane he has this very relaxed, laid-back demeanor to him which can make me feel safe, and is a good balance to my intensity. The trick is to stay connected. We both now understand that the physical/sexual contact is important to our bonding, and we ML every day while we were away. He is telling me he needs this kind of connection...which is so different from when I joined the BB 2 yrs ago. The other trick is for me not to get so hurt/withdrawn by his crazies...he truly is really trying to get it together. I am allowing him to take charge with the initiations...my choice...I would like some more change, kinkiness, etc. but that's not H's style. I'm figuring out that I am the LD one...he gets aroused in a quiet way by connection...I am looking for drama. A personality thing...the difference between 9 and 4's...for now I am doing it his way because I want to enjoy his way of dominance. At some point I"ll probably get too bored and have to do the self assertion, PM thing again, but right now, we are at a healing phase.
Thank you Chrissy... I have to catch up on the board here...hope you are at a better place...sometimes it has to get worse before it can get better.
I see clearly how my H and my own personality/ mental styles combined to cause tension and distance. I have wanted to escape for some time, but when it came down to it, I found myself putting more and more work trying to save it. I ( finally) feel now that my H is also trying...less in denial.
I'd like to be optimistic, but you never know with certainty how things will turn out, especially once you start developing boundaries and recognizing that there are some things that you just don't want to tolerate. And on the other side, I don't know how successful I will be in maintaining the changes that help my H feel good about me. He definitely likes me calm... HELP!!
Anyway, Chrissy, hope you are finding some peace of mind and eventual passion as well.
Sad day here as I found out that my best-friend-from-childhood's father passed away after a long struggle with cancer. He was a great man and it's a major loss for my friend.
I am going to go visit her at my hometown tomorrow...haven't been back there in years. I know it's going to be very emotional... also a reminder that both my parents are so frail now...anything can happen at any time...so I am stirred up in a melancholy way.
So I will be taking a walk down memory lane...very nostalgic for me, very sad. Hubby said he would come with me but I told him I had better go alone. I guess I need meltdown time and it's hard for him to relate to my emotions.
I do hope to bond with my friend, give her support, and take in the preciousness of life.
Quote: So IHJ's H wins the conflict avoidance award on this BB.
For some reason, I have an odd sense of connection with your H. This is probably because I have some of the same issues with my H that your H has with you (at least as you describe things and given the fact that you are probably a far higher functioning Type 4 than my H and also I would have no problem with your kinky fantasies since I am a Type 7 rather than 9) and also because I am a big conflict avoider myself. Though in my case this is probably due to the constant disrespectful fights in my FOO rather than the habit of tense repression your H experienced. OTOH, I feel like your H is a big mystery. For instance, when you posted that at one point in your marriage when you were actively LD, you went for a year without sex and your H never directly addressed the issue. The question I asked myself was "Where was he? What did he do with his, as you have described, normal level male drive? ".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Jenny, My H does have a lot of 7 type traits...he has the distractibility, spontaneity and fun side to his personality. He also has this relaxed, laid back, Zen type thing too and a lot of repressed anger, like a 9. Also, because of some issues with his father, he can be like a 3, driven to achieve. People are complex, but one thing I can say for sure: he is a conflict avoider.
So how did he handle my LD? In the early part of our marriage the frequency was still pretty reasonable... whatever that means...I'd say once a week or every other week. Then we had kids and a real drop-off ensued...he has told me he would MB...he tried porn a little but is mostly repulsed by it...he did a lot of the GAL thing. The kids were small and we were still emotionally connected. I didn't feel anything sexual but that was alright by me and I figured he was okay with it as well.
Then, a few yrs ago, I really began to feel a change in the air at home. He was there but not there. Over time, he had become successful at work, surrounded by a mostly female supportive staff, and his appearance had even changed for the better. He outgrew some of the awkward, nerdy stuff, began working out, was developing more confidence, and my feeling is that he was having some sort of EA or PA, although I couldn't find it. I didn't know NOPs and didn't do some of the things he suggests...it was a feeling, but I didn't look all too hard, maybe I wasn't ready to. But, I do believe some woman at the office had his attention. He was cold and distant in bed, and neutral in his interactions with me, and sometimes irritable as well.
At this time I was going through a hard time myself...illness with my father, turning 40, feeling emotional/depressed a lot. I sought help and I began a project to relocate my sex drive. My brother and sis-in-law took our kids for a vacation and I wanted to use this rare occurance to reconnect sexually. Which we did...but it didn't last. I felt my H's anger/resentment although he denied feeling this way.
And that's when I came on the BB... my desire had never been higher, and my H was being withholding. And you, my dear BB friend, followed the rest.
And to the girl who possibly had the affair with my H...well, F-YOU!!!!!!
Quote: So IHJ's H wins the conflict avoidance award on this BB.
Hey, c'mon, that's MY award! It's the only category I was even nominated in! (well, there WAS that "Most Likely to Get Caught Doing Something Inappropriate with the Alyssa Milano Website" one, but that's another story)
Do you think that part of your husband's LD may have been due to feeling like I have felt- that the Type 4 sex drive is more motivated by the negative or dark than the positive or jolly aspects of sex? I mean do you think that he may have been, perhaps subconsciously, playing hard-to-get in order to feel some positive desire from you aimed at him? I hate to admit it but I've been tempted to behave like Barney in order to get the reaction I want. Also, I have a very cynical theory that it might be necessary for me to go through a Siamese Twin phase in order to truly be able to forgive my H. Sort of like I can't trust him to not go LD on me again unless he experiences for himself the misery of being the HD partner. However, my more rational, optimistic side hopes that we can naturally evolve to a place in which I sense that he is being more positively motivated towards being sexual with me so I don't have to feel like I constantly have to be ready to play out the Schnarchian "going to the bar" scene in order to feel reasonably confident that my needs will be met.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Choc... I still say my H wins the conflict avoider award...you are here on the board trying to get help...unless your real intention is to make us women think of chocolate and rev us up....
My H just called. We had a talk about my needing to experience the melancholic nostalgia with my girlfriend ( IOW, cry our eyes out). We came up with a plan where I would go to my hometown tomorrow by myself and that he would come with me the next day. He joked that he could handle my emotional state but first had to stop off for a drink ( I think he was joking). So once again, instead of living in separate worlds, he is making an effort to " get me" and keep the connection.
Jenny... I do think that my H had a lot of anger/resentment of me that he had to work out. I know he felt abandoned by me ( and had these feelings about his father) so that added to the situation. And...when I did discover my libido, it did come in the form of dark sexual fantasies, and he felt it wasn't about him. In this way, he was more like a narcissistic 3 or repressed 9 rather than a distracted 7( if that's the way 7's become LD).
Now that we are functioning more healthily, I do see that his desire comes from positive connection ( which unfortunately doesn't get me going). So I am back to being the LD one but with a big difference...I am enthusiastic and have not rejected him at all ( and won't again). I like the fact that he feels he needs the sex now and initiates several times per week...I am not complaining. This is good for us. But I am a little bored.
I think your H, as a 4, will be motivated by drama and dark stuff. And that takes some time to drum up. So I see your sex life as having less frequency than mine but more passion if left solely in our H's hands.
Quote: This is good for us. But I am a little bored.
I think your H, as a 4, will be motivated by drama and dark stuff. And that takes some time to drum up. So I see your sex life as having less frequency than mine but more passion if left solely in our H's hands.
You know what is funny? As a Type 7, I actually kind of get bored with the dark drama. It's like having to see a horror movie or psychological thriller every time you go to the movies. I definitely don't want a diet of Disney, but some variety would be appreciated.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
