Quote: As someone who rushed into a relationship too soon after my first husband, I would suggest not even thinking about another R right now.
NOT TO WORRY! And that has been discussed. I don't want to hurt anyone and most definitely don't want to get burned. And I'm still conflicted about "what if"... things w/ W change.
I just don't understand her anger. Well I do, but I think a lot of it is misdirected at ME when she's probably angry at herself for not dealing w/ her stuff. And then again maybe I'm way off base here! Whatever!
Also makes a point of talking to ME about the stuff in her life that is bothering her. Says she can't talk to mom... And given some of the stuff this almost 15 y.o. is saying I'm am blown away... Makes me feel like I'm not totally out of touch as a parent!
This isn't about your marriage, but I have to say that if your 15 year old likes to talk to you about stuff that is bothering her, especially her being a girl, consider yourself lucky. Most kids that age "hate" their parents and don't like to even look at them. So good job!
Quote: Most kids that age "hate" their parents and don't like to even look at them.
OH SHE'S like this too!!! But will come and tell me she wants to "talk" IE SHE TALKS,.... I listen... don't say nothing unless asked to!
C today made the point that me being 44 and intelligent and still having difficulty processing everything w/ W.... what do I think the kids are going through?? And even if they "say/seem" to be okay, they do see what's going on and they will reduce it to... MOM LEFT. Oy Vey. S11 calls W usually once/twice a week... W almost never calls them unless it's to coordinate something. But to just chat, no.
I notice a lot of anger in your posts. Is this your way of venting, or is this anger coming across to your W?
A couple of suggestions for you...
One, quit focussing on her "issues". Be it anything you feel is unresolved from her childhood, what you perceive to be her feelings of inadequacy, whatever. It doesn't matter, and it's out of your control anyway. It's just energy wasted that you could be focussing on yourself and your children.
Quote: Bottom line is she blames ME and the 1989 affair for why we are getting divorced NOW.
Ok, I'm not going to call you horrible nasty names, but it's possible she really never did heal from it. Just because it was a loooong time ago doesn't mean it isn't still affecting her. Was there an effor on your part to figure out the underlying issues? And I don't mean finger-pointing at your W. I mean what you did that allowed for the A.
Did you work on a plan to help her feel comfortabl and safe in the M again? How did you demonstrate to her that you were committed to making it work?
Quote: My C has done a remarkable job of FINALLY getting me to see that W is very immature and childish... That she pretty much took a back seat to everything in our marriage and let me drive the train so to speak and didn't want to take any responsiblity for "stuff".
This really bothers me. It sounds like your C is doing just as much finger-pointint as you are, which isn't constructive in trying to move forward.
So what are your goals? Do you want to work at this relationship? Perhaps a chance at reconciliation in the future? Are you looking to making an amicable divorce?
Set something short-term, focussed on you and your kids. Something you can see results from in a week.
I notice a lot of anger in your posts. Is this your way of venting, or is this anger coming across to your W?
A couple of suggestions for you...
One, quit focussing on her "issues". Be it anything you feel is unresolved from her childhood, what you perceive to be her feelings of inadequacy, whatever. It doesn't matter, and it's out of your control anyway. It's just energy wasted that you could be focussing on yourself and your children.
Quote: Bottom line is she blames ME and the 1989 affair for why we are getting divorced NOW.
Ok, I'm not going to call you horrible nasty names, but it's possible she really never did heal from it. Just because it was a loooong time ago doesn't mean it isn't still affecting her. Was there an effor on your part to figure out the underlying issues? And I don't mean finger-pointing at your W. I mean what you did that allowed for the A.
Did you work on a plan to help her feel comfortabl and safe in the M again? How did you demonstrate to her that you were committed to making it work?
Quote: My C has done a remarkable job of FINALLY getting me to see that W is very immature and childish... That she pretty much took a back seat to everything in our marriage and let me drive the train so to speak and didn't want to take any responsiblity for "stuff".
This really bothers me. It sounds like your C is doing just as much finger-pointint as you are, which isn't constructive in trying to move forward.
So what are your goals? Do you want to work at this relationship? Perhaps a chance at reconciliation in the future? Are you looking to making an amicable divorce?
Set something short-term, focussed on you and your kids. Something you can see results from in a week.
Yeah a little bit of both, anger and venting... B/c what happened was SO incredibly out of character for her. And she changed her tune constantly last year about why/what was the problem... We had been seeing a shrink; she kept saying it didn't seem like it was helping... I was going there with every intention of honestly trying to fix whatever she kept saying was the problem... and then I realized after the bomb that she had mentally checked out several months before and wasn't really trying in therapy...BUT was quite willing to blame me for it not getting any better!!
I have stopped worrying about her issues... (other than in conversations w/ my Mom) We both are concerned about her and her state of mind. D15 tells me she's lost MORE weight (again) 5'2"/108 maybe now? Was down to 100# last summer. And her STILL Blaming me for 1989 doesn't sound like she's made too much progress either!
AND no we didn't really heal from the A. She was content to let that elephant sit in the corner. Over the following year, we sold our house, moved to VA from MD. got a decent sized 4 BR house, she changed jobs, she got PG w/ D15... AND I made the decision that she was really the best person for me to be w/ and was going to be a good husband. Every now and then she would ask me if it was a PA, I'd deny it, she'd say I forgive you anyway, sometimes she'd tell me she needed reassurance and I needed to woo/court her which I didn't do to well at, hell, hardly at all. But being a guy and all...I thought my ACTIONS over the years SHOWED what I felt for her and our family, that my building stuff for her, taking care of her when she was on bedrest w/ S11, doing stuff lovingly , well lets say 5LL was an eye opener. She also has had problems all her life w/ things not being EXACTLY the way she wants them to be. Countless times we'd go to her folks and if her Mom said/did something that irked her, she'd be all upset the rest of the evening when we left and prob. for a day or two after! Jeez, they're your parents, they're supposed to drive you crazy!!! Her SiL who has known her for probably 30 years told me last summer that this wasn't about ME (and yes she knows about the A) she said that W has always had unrealistic expectations and has had issues w/ her Mom that persist to this day even though MiL has been dead 3 years now!
Like when she got PG and I didn't "sweep me up and spin me around and say OH HONEY, YOU'RE HAVING MY BABY!" Literally! That's what she expected!
She tells me now that she wanted me to say she was the only one, the one I wanted to be with, etc... I DID tell her this years ago when she said something like this, I told her in NO UNCERTAIN terms that I couldn't imagine not being w/ her. I tried to make our lovelife fun... she just wanted to get it over w/. I took her shopping on my Bday and bought her a black leather dress and black leather miniskirt Size 4 thank you very much and she looked HOT! Even our friends thought she looked GREAT. Wore them each ONCE! Said she felt CHEAP and slutty and why did I have to insist that she dress like that and in 3 inch heels. Well, maybe b/c you look GREAT, Sexy/Classy NOT slutty at all and I have the serious hots for you... Basically our L.L. got to the point where she was just agitated b/c I wanted to take my time, she wanted to get it over w/ hurried things along, and THEN would be pi$$ed at me b/c she didn't O cuz she takes longer!
We DON'T talk. In the past month I saw her for 2 min. at her apt a few weeks ago, maybe 30 sec. her at the house two weeks ago and answered the phone twice when she called the kids.
I WANT (at least I think so) to work on having a R w/ her at some point in the future... Right now I think she is so angry that she doesn't want to talk to me except about the kids when we have to. She has said as much. But so much of what she says is conflicting... Example: She cut off contact w/ almost everyone last year wehn she was all glommed up w/ VirginBoy, says now that she wanted to have time to think, decide what to do, not be influenced by everyone else etc. I said that's fine, but you can still stay in touch and just tell them you don't want to talk about our R... But then she tells me that I need to LISTEN to other people and MOVE on w/ my life. And last year when she was mad at me she said I was an @$$hole and I should ask a friend of ours just what my problems were! So I DID! And he said not to worry, that I was a good person, she's just angry. Well, when I told her that this spring, her response was "well, he just says what everyone wants to hear cuz he doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings!" Well, then why the heck did you tell me to ask him in the first place???!!! See, This is just one examp. of her wanting it HER way, and if it isn't, then it doesn't matter or it's not right. AFA the D; reasonably amicable, property division was easy and I came out pretty well off. She basically walked away from a lot of $$$. Would I take her back? NOT RIGHT NOW! I deserve to have a wife that is a PARTNER, not someone who lets me drive the bus b/c they don't want to participate. I used to ask her to come up w/ ideas of where to go for vacation... She'd either suggest something impractical (Far away, $$$, and us w/ two small kids) or more commonly, nothing at all. And then would get irked if I planned something that took us somewhere where I could see/do something w/ boats... ( I love to sail!) Two years ago we went to Boston for two days, went sightseeing, saw a Sox/O's game (O's won!) went to Newport RI which is one of HER favorite places we've been to, stayed there two days, ONE/half of a day of which I went to a boat show. Rest of the 5 days on vacation I was the model Dad; played w/ the kids, did everything together... Now she throws it in my face. I want a wife that is a WIFE. She hasn't been for a long time. It remains to be seen if she is capable of that.
Interestingly the shrink we were seeing together, BOTH of the counselors my daughter has seen this past year and her two closest friends ALL said she is behaving childishly and immature. Like she's having a second teenage adolescence. D15 two C's both met w/ W one time and based on that and D15's comments BOTH independently said she is immature, acting more like a PEER to D15 instead of a parent. When 3 sep. professionals make the same point, when HER friends and SIL say the same thing; makes me wonder... For now, I'm just focused on NOT saying/doing things that would be unproductive. IE... as hurt/angry as I am...I'll not demand she return her wedding rings and anniv. band I gave her several years ago. (she has 3 wedding bands, the orig and two white gold that she wanted to put on either side that I gave her after about 8 years..) I'll not do that b/c it would be hurtful. I won't tell her she has 30 days per our agreement to get her Sh-t out of the house. I have never said she couldn't see the kids anytime she's asked...although in all honesty I could count on 1 hand the times she's tried to see them other than the scheduled times. And those have been for appts/ or a special xmas pageant at church! She almost never calls on days she doesn't have them unless it's for a specific reason (kids sick/coordinate something/return their call) She NEVER calls just to say HI, how was your day, sleep tight!
Sorry this is so long, I'm on a tear. I'm actually in a pretty good place right now. I have met other women, sometimes go out VERY CASUALLY and the funny thing is women that know this sitch are very sympathetic to me.. even knowing about the A in 1989! They see a guy who has busted his A$$ trying to keep his marriage together and who was remorseful for something that happend 16 plus years ago, who insisted on staying w/ his kids so they wouldn't be displaced and further hurt... I'm not about to jump into a fullblown R w/ anyone else and I intend to take my time. I have been GAL and detaching. But, as I've told W many times... I'll ALWAYS listen to what you have to say if you want to talk. I've left that door open. I just don't think she'll ever have the nerve to walk back in. She's said as much; that she's afraid of being rejected AGAIN. (she was adopted, mom was very critical, Gmother favored her Brother, college guy "friend" didn't LOVE her, etc.etc.
My sitch is different AND the same in certain points in my situation's timeline. I had an affair. It was over long b4 my wife became aware. My A was the worst decision of my life. We have 2 children D5 and S(10mos.) I had needs that were seriously unmet, specifically affirmation, adoration, affection and appreciation. Unfortunately, I was too weak and afraid to broach the subject of my needs to my W, so I took the cowardly way outside my M to much more devastating effect to my W, my M, my family and myself.
My story weaves all over the place, so please bear with me. I felt that my W had 1 foot in the M and one foot out, leaning strongly to the out side. She often would tell me she wanted a D, but never acted on it. Grasshopper says that perhaps she was trying to get my attention focused on HER unmet needs. Perhaps, hindsight would be much more useful as FOREsight.
The summer b4 my A, my W made a decision to go to a meeting to see an exBF. Why she told me about where she was going, I do not know. I told her in no uncertain terms that if she was looking to me for my approval to go that I was not going to give that to her. I told her I DO NOT want you to go to that meeting. Her marriage cancer (mc) friend was in our home listening to this discussion prepared to take my W to see her exBF. As is often said, with friends like that, who needs enemies? My wife ended up going with mc and returned later. I was distant and withdrawn. My W pursued me to discuss my feelings. I simply asked her, "Why?" She said I don't know and tried to make up with me. I let it go. Fast Forward.
My A comes to light. My wife is back on the phone and e-mailing her exBF. The e-mails were explicitly sexual and talked of marriage. She told me that the reason she went to the meeting was to see if there was a "spark", and there was!! Nice. A much different story than not knowing why she went to see him. Fast forward.
In her e-mails, she was planning to have exBF stay at our home and lie to our D5 by telling her he is a friend like another dear friend of ours. When I called her on this lie, she said, "Well, he is. I've known him for 15 years." I told her, "NO, you knew him for 5 years and haven't seen or talked to him for 10 years. You have no idea who he is."
Anyway, my W continued her lies and deception b/c, as we all know, two wrongs DO make a right, right? Well, the sh*t hit the fan when exBF showed up the same as he ever was and that fizzled quickly with a lot of bitterness.
NOW, after much dating, she is involved with one man and is having marital conversations with the second man in less that 4 months. Nice. Everyone who knows her tells me that, "No, she is not hurting, she is just using your A as a get out of M without guilt card. She is just doing what she has wanted to do all along." Perhaps I am delusional, as my counselor says, but I err on the side of grace and contend that, "Yes, she is huring badly. That hurt is causing confusion and causing her to run away from the cause of her hurt (me) and towards her perceived happiness (in the form of any OM). At this point, I pray for God to care for her in her aimless wandering. I also pray that He touches her so that she will see/hear His message and it will cause her to hesitate in her current path.
My W has held fast to wanting a D from very early on in my sitch. I came to DB in mid-Feb and then took a month off. Big mistake. I am now 4 1/2 months into my sitch and rely heavily on some kind souls to tell it like it is for me and kick me in the run when I need it.
We have had positive interactions more often lately, but I still have serious fears. I come here to be reminded by more kind souls to believe and hold onto my faith! God has a plan and that plan is on His time, not mine. I pray every day that my execution of my DB plan gets better every day. Doing a faceplant in executing my DB plan doubly hurts.
I work daily to pump up my PMA. Most people in my daily life see only the tunnel I am in. They see only neverending darkness. I see a light at the end of the tunnel. I see daylight, sunshine, life!
Quote: ATTITUDE- An obvious fact about negative feelings is often overlooked. They are caused by us, not be exterior happenings. An outside event presents the challenge, but we react to it. So we must attend to the way we take things, not to the things themselves. -VERNON HOWARD
I nurture and protect my PMA because THAT is what I have 100% control over, not the state of my M.
Quote: BELIEF- The only thing that stands between a man and what he wants from life is often merely the will to try it and the faith to believe that it is possible. -RICHARD M. DeVOS
I believe that it is possible for my M will thrive and survive and I possess the will to try it.
Quote: FAITH- Faith is to believe what we do not see; and the reward of this faith is to see what we believe. -SAINT AUGUSTINE
I believe I will be redeemed through my repentance and my M will be restored and reconciled as a testament to the mercy, power and love of God.
My job right now is to work diligently to NOT feed into any of the "stuff" that is thrown my way. I choose to listen to the Voice of Truth. I choose to change the dynamics of all interactions with my W. I can change my M positively alone by working to change me with God's help. I will respond thoughtfully, not react intuitively and negatively. A tall order, yes, but I will achieve my goal.
For you, stay strong. Nurture your PMA. Diligently work on yourself and GAL. Be well. Have fun. Laugh lots.
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