PandDBing- I am certainly no expert on this issue, especially since my H continues to deny his A. However, regardless of whether your H left you to be with her, he is still your H. In my mind, that is an A. That being said, do you think that what he is doing is an A? How does what he is doing make you feel? Infidelity, affairs, cheating: they are all just labels. What matters are the feelings this other R brings up in you.
My H is blaming us not reconciling on me too...b/c i betrayed him. I guess he does not see what he has been doing as a betrayal...whatever. Oh, wait, that's right...they're just friends...
Anyway, remember that you can't listen to anything they say right now. What spews from their mouths are things to make themselves feel better...about themselves and what they are doing. By making you the "manipulative b@#%&" he is justifying his actions, probably because he feels like s..t b/c he knows it is wrong.
I haven't read any of those books that you mentioned. I have picked up a few books on infidelity, but i never buy them b/c i don't feel like they address my sitch directly. I want to know why my H just doesn't admit it if he wants to D anyway. But, that's my issue. If you get any of those books and feel they are worthwhile, let me know. Thanks.
Gee, guys. I feel like Queen of the Day! Thanks so much for your feedback. I'm gonna try to hit some highlights here:
Em Very, very good to hear from you. Thanks so much for taking time to respond. I would like to take any cheating spouse and hang them by their freakin' toenails, but it's especially difficult to swallow when they're cheating with a preggo wife at home. I've gotten kinda used to it, unfortunately, but it still creeps me out everytime I think about it -- regardless of the sitch.
My H was sleeping around while I was pregnant. And continued to do so after the baby came home. I was absolutely clueless stupid stupid stupid.
Nope. Trusting. There's a big difference. I've been trained in the last few years to be a suspicious person. I'm very peceptive, too. I was sooo humilated when I found out that my H had apparently started at least an EA with OW. Totally blindsided. It was either luck or fate that led me to his house the day I discovered that he was sleeping with her. Had that not happened, I wouldn't know to this day. I would still have believed that my H left me because he thought the baby wasn't his, blah, blah, blah.
Anyway, all that to say that none of us were stupid to have faith in our marriage partner. That's how it's supposed to be. And on top of that, love is a funny thing. Maybe it blinds us to the truth sometimes.
He was seriously immature in some ways and got his ego fed and fed and fed by his ability to get other women in bed.
The big issue I have in dealing with my H is that he's not a womanizer. He doesn't even have that aura about him, and that was one of the reasons I chose him as my partner. You guys see how I'll research the heck outta something? Well, with my XH, it was sexual addiction. And I *knew* what to look out for in my next partner.
I "picked" someone who wasn't my "style" at all, who actually would give the shirt off his back to people, even though he really didn't like them. He isn't really that hot (at least not by my normal standards; I know that sounds shallow, but I don't mean it like it sounds). As I noted in an earlier post, my admiration and respect for him is what made me fall in love with him. He was the most loyal, devoted, trustworthy, accommodating person I had ever met in my life. Seriously. Overall, I trusted him more than I've ever trusted anyone. And I don't normally trust people. I would've put money on the fact that he would never cheat on me. And unfortunately, I would've lost.
Here's my one warning though. I am hanging out at these boards because H told me recently "he doesn't have any more to give". etc etc etc. One big problem we have had - until only very recently - is that I never really forgave him. I said I did. I wanted to. I believed he no longer acted that way. But I just could not get over the fact that he didn't love me enough not to do that.
Thank you for this. Point taken! I'm not sure what's in store for H and me, but I'll have to forgive him regardless. I've always been a pretty forgiving person, but I'm sure I'm not as intimately familiar with forgiveness as I will be by the end of this sitch.
Lisa Great resources! Thanks for the recommendations. As soon as I'm done with the other 18 books I've checked out ( ), I'll get those. Ya know, I didn't have time to read before H left me. And now I usually only do it after the girls have gone to bed, and I need to get sleepy. And I have an entire office of books on healing and spiritual matters (and the feminazi movement -- that one's for you, bigAl). I've got that stuff down pat, I think. I think. We'll see. It's time to put to practice what I've learned in all these years of personal growth. It's certainly a test. But I think I'll pass.
Dust Thank you so very much for your kindness and for taking time to respond. Sounds like we have a few similarities.
I, too, waver from day to day, thinking .....I am done with this man .... let's have some fun with his idiocy. Then I realize that using my H for amusement purposes will not result in what I ultimately want (although I am not sure WHAT it is I want these days).
I'm not sure any of us know exactly what we want, and I think that's a good thing in the grand scheme of things. We've opened ourselves up, and the answers will come in time. And they'll all be our own answers -- not someone else's.
As for being amused by our H's idiocy, yes, you're right. A wise DBer (VJ) was telling me (reponding to an entirely different topic) that sometimes it's best to let things go. Sometimes, there are words on the tips of our tongues, and they want so badly to go flyin' out. But even if we choose to give in, our feelings will still be there afterward. And I would argue that then they're coupled with feelings of humiliation for letting our egos get the best of us -- and handing away even more of our own self-control and dignity.
So yeah, I've learned a lesson about engaging with H. It might seem "fun" at the time -- like I've given up, thrown caution to the wind and plan to go down with both barrels blazin' -- but VJ was right. I was still left with the very same sad, lonely, angry feelings. I would have felt better about myself had I just kept my flippin' mouth shut. (Though at the time my ego told me that if I did that, I would later risk feeling like a big fat doormat.)
I think both situations involve the H feeling he is entitled to his A. And I'm not sure it really makes a difference when the OW comes into the picture. I do, however, know that whether or not H is still married (by law), he considers himself to be "single".
Yep. My H told me that: "At least I did it after we weren't married anymore." Sheesh. Last I checked, we still were -- at least legally.
NYS There's obviously infidelity in it. He was developing something outside the marriage.
Yep. The most simple and obvious point. Sometimes I miss those.
Imdi That being said, do you think that what he is doing is an A? How does what he is doing make you feel?
Absolutely I feel it was an A. Perhaps I'm putting 2 and 2 together -- when I typically try not to attach reality to anything until I have supporting facts -- but my H had a 40-minute conversation with her two days before he left me. I must assume the obvious: She knew before I did that he was leaving me. That's an EA in my book. And he had a feeling -- whether or not they were having a PA at the time -- that she would be waiting in the wings for him to make the fallout from leaving his family a little easier. That's an A. So I guess I just answered my own question -- with the help, of course, of a few good DB friends.
Oh, wait, that's right...they're just friends...
...yeah, or if you catch 'em red-handed, they'll tell you it was "our goodbye." Puhlease.
Anyway, remember that you can't listen to anything they say right now. What spews from their mouths are things to make themselves feel better...about themselves and what they are doing. By making you the "manipulative b@#%&" he is justifying his actions, probably because he feels like s..t b/c he knows it is wrong.
I know you're right. If I were on the outside looking in, I would see that. It's just hard to swallow being so emotionally attached to the sitch. But I don't have to explain; I know you understand.
I want to know why my H just doesn't admit it if he wants to D anyway.
Sounds to me like he must not want to...Let him stew in his confusion about it. Serves him right.
If you get any of those books and feel they are worthwhile, let me know.
Shall do!
dontfret If the shoe was on the other foot, would your H say you are having affair? My guess is yes.
And your guess would be right. It's funny you mention that, too. That thought has kept me sane during some other insane times. Like when H blasted me for pulling his cell phone records after I caught him with OW -- he said that was another factor in him deciding he didn't want to be with me. I told him (though it was of no use to do so) that he would have done at least that if he wanted to know if I was having an A. He didn't respond. He would've done a lot more than that, actually. I'd guarantee it.
Quote: Just had to add this. If the shoe was on the other foot, would your H say you are having affair? My guess is yes.
Excellent point...thus how even EAs are so dangerous...if you share more (emotionally or phsyically) with an opposite member of the sex than you do your own S, danger, danger...
P & DB -
This week's People magazine has excerpts from the new book by Laci Peterson's mom. She talks about how her SIL told Laci he didn't want kids, and then supposedly agreed. Clearly he was a sociopath, but a very charming one who showed people what they wanted to see. (When he first met MIL, he took them to lunch, and had two dozen roses on the table, one color for Laci, one for MIL). When Laci's pregnancy didn't fit into his plans, well, we all know how he handled it.
I mention this because - well - it worries me just a bit. Sure - it's pretty common for a guy who's already having an affair to split when the W becomes pregnant. But the degree to which your H is running from this, the nastiness, and the apparent contrast with the image you always had of him - worries me. Yes, WASs almost always appear drastically changed from who they were before, and this doesn't mean they are all sociopaths! But I would be a little careful around him, think back to see if there are other past discrepancies you glossed over, maybe give that book a look just to make sure. I don't want him doing something extreme to run away from his obligation to you and your child.
Quote: I don't want him doing something extreme to run away from his obligation to you and your child.
Ellie, strong and valid points even though we never want to think such horrible stuff...this coming from me who found the gun loaded with 3 bullets in it...nowadays you really can't be too careful...as much as we never want to think of such things...
Something I want to add on those notes, to serve possibly as a warning more than anything else:
I know I've mentioned this before, but it's worth it to do it again: OW contacted my H (I'm thinking just a couple months before he left me) for him to design and build something for a room she was designing. He was usually with me when he would call her. She came to my house for their initial meeting, and then he met up with her and several other interior designers/decorative painters one evening shortly thereafter. He was so happy because these folks were going to be his "connection" that helped launch his business.
Here's the interesting twist: His cell phone records show that he had very sporadic calls to her, late in the evenings (when he was home), from the time they met until early September. Those are the phone calls I knew about. H was *always* with me in the evenings. Never worked late. Never went out with the guys. Always even came home for lunch.
I found out I was preggo on Aug. 31 but had kinda known since mid-August.
In early September (days after my pregnancy was confirmed), H's phone calls to/from OW started happening more frequently, and always during work hours -- including the 40-minute conversation. The first conversation he had with her outside of work hours was the night he left me. He had two conversations with her that night, each about 25 minutes in length.
So what's the moral of the story? There are *truly* sometimes when an A can be going on right under your nose, and there's nothing -- and I mean *nothing* -- that's pointing to it. That is soooo freakin' scary.
I beat myself up for a while about being so blind. But the fact is that I wasn't blind. I trusted my H. He had never given me a reason not to. And an A can start without an EA. Or an EA can start in a 40-minute phone call, and blow up into a PA within a matter of days.
Trying to "catch" the PA before it happens is nearly impossible -- especially if you're trusting and therefore don't snoop through your S's cell phone -- or whatever other devices s/he's gonna use to pull it off.
Anyway, that's a lesson learned, for what it's worth.
Oh boy, Ellie. I'm so glad you posted that. You make the second person who's mentioned that exact case to me. Two times means it's a warning. I thank you. And I have been very careful. Anytime he's had one of his "explosions," I've left the house to stay with a friend -- though he certainly wouldn't do anything to me when it's so obvious. I'm saying prayers of protection around myself very often -- and saying prayers of thanks for folks like you who care so much.
), I'll get those. Ya know, I didn't have time to read before H left me. And now I usually only do it after the girls have gone to bed, and I need to get sleepy. And I have an entire office of books on healing and spiritual matters (and the feminazi movement -- that one's for you, bigAl). I've got that stuff down pat, I think. I think. We'll see. It's time to put to practice what I've learned in all these years of personal growth. It's certainly a test. But I think I'll pass.