Tony: Do you really believe that Men have a difficult time meeting women? Is it the "rejection factor?" Is it the middle age syndrome that no one will want me? Cuz if that's the case - I know I feel that as well! Do you feel the pressure is extreme at our age to start up dating again?
I totally agree with HC.. I feel exactly the same way. My STBX was the one that wanted out, got herself a OM, and *I* feel guilty if I think about moving on.
My W took off her ring about 3 months ago, and I didn't until the D paperwork was signed. I haven't been out on a date yet, and don't have any prospects either. But I've registered on a couple of dating sites, so who knows..
I feel like women can definately go out and "pick up" someone much easier than a man can. Women can go out, buy a nice dress, get their hair done, put on makeup and basically "hide" their insecurities. Its alot harder for a guy to hide his. Of course, that only applies to sex and/or meeting someone... emotionally, I think we are all basically the same in that respect.
Sick In FL: You have to remember we have all been out of the dating world a long time for the most part. Us women have the exact same insecurities that men do . . . plus we all think you just want sex (kidding).
You can just as easily treat yourself to a new shirt and pair of jeans and look just as appealing. Just go easy on the cologne - often times men tend to bath in it (and women too) and it can be too overpowering.
Remember it takes time - I have been divorced for a long time now (been on this board for 5 years). I'm no expert believe me but maybe a little more comfortable with who I am.
Quote: plus we all think you just want sex (kidding).
I hate to generalize, but this is not so far off base for men and raises a bigger question as to what is meant by the term relationship. Furthermore, a fantasy is always more attractive than reality. What I don't want to pursue is a fantasy. Do women pursue the fantasy more than men in terms of an emotionally intimate R--I have no idea.
To be very honest, I'm much more interested in having sex than a getting into another R and have joked with some male friends in the same boat that if we could have an ejector button at the ready after the act, the world would be perfect. But that's purely physical wiring and is arguably as cheap as getting a prostitute--so why insult my dignity.
I think you'll find that for many men on this board, we have families and take our family responsibilities very seriously. From a logical standpoint, if you're not happy with the turmoil the WAS brought to your family life, there is little to recommend about introducing a third-party into the family mix and the entirely new set of issues and dynamics that this brings. At least fo me, I have enough work keeping my head together to be there fo rmy kids and maintain focus at work. Another R right now would break the camel's back.
And finally, on my preachy side, I've used the absence of my sacramental R with my W to further pursue my R with Christ and I've found the pursuit of this R has enhanced my R's and interactions with all other people, thereby diminishing the deeper yearnings for an R with a new significant other.
Merrick: Thanks for your honest insight. I totally agree - one should be stable with themselves, their family life (children) before ever introducing a new person into the mix.
Being that women are more emotional human beings for the most part - yes we probably do look for the "relationship", couple, boyfriend/girlfriend type setting. Maybe men don't because they see it as more of a monetary loss - in other words they may have lost much of their 401K moneies etc and are very sheepish to want to get in another true relationship for fear of losing all that again? And that is totally understandable.
Merrick - just a question I'm going to throw out here and I'm not trying to be mean or lash out at you, but from reading your post - are you generally bitter towards women? And you could have good reason to be - that's okay. I sense that in reading your post.
I'm rarely here anymore, but this topic is of great interest to me right now.
For me, there just isn't anything in a relationship that appeals to me right now. Like merrick, sex would be cool, but I don't need a relationship for that. And like Tony said, men have to do the initial work of asking and there is such a huge chance that I could be rejected. After 2 heartbreaks in 2 years, I really haven't the desire to risk more pain and rejection.
There's also the point of men being the strong, silent type and keeping our emotions to ourselves. When we're married we have someone to share them with, but when a divorce happens and we're facing the most emotional point in our lives, we have no one to talk to about it. Men don't share with their buddies. We talk about cars, sports, we get each other drunk and go see a game, but we don't talk about our feelings. We don't need to, as we've all felt that way, but for the one going through it, we don't heal very quickly because we have no one to REALLY talk to.
But we have to be men. We have to get over it. Suck it up. That's why we die much earlier than women. To this day I maintain that my father died from a broken heart after my parent's divorce. He was just not the same person after that. It was my mom's decision to divorce.
Because I had no one to really talk to I've focused on other parts of my life so I don't shut down completely. Those things are going pretty well. And it makes me think, why screw with what's going well.
My grandmother will tisk, tisk me when we talk about my dating again. She thinks I shouldn't be alone. She asked what I was looking for in a woman and the only thing I can think of right now, is one who won't leave. That's a sad statement about where I am right now. And as many have said, I just don't have the trust to give someone. Maybe in time, but not right now.
I do wish I had someone to go to the movies or out to dinner with. That loneliness is hard sometimes, but if the alternative is being faced with possible rejection again, I'll learn to do without.
Very interesting topic. I need to jump in also. My background...two time loser (divorced twice). So I guess it is possible to get out there again.
My perception is that when it is the guy that is the LBS, they hold on longer to the "one that got away". Perhaps, like in my case, the guy still sees the attractive things about the spouse and feels that she's as suitable as anyone else out there. I was somewhat that way with my first XW, but mainly it was about transference of my feelings for the kids to the XW. I missed them so much that I would do anything to have a complete family again.
I still wasn't completely whole when I met my wife to be. She was more recently divorced than me, the walk away in that case also, and seemed to have her stuff together. Scary thing is that I didn't date a whole lot and so she was really the first date that was more than one date. I don't think we hit it off really, but she kept the blooming R alive when I wouldn't have made much effort to nurture it. Over time I saw her positive traits, enjoyed spending time with her, and fell in love. The difference this time was that it was more of a thinking thing. I had the ghosts of the past telling me that what I didn't want in a woman and how I should be careful and all that. Those fears slowed things down a lot. My now X was always having to prod me along in the R. She dumped me multiple times because I wouldn't commit to us fully.
So from my now X and other divorced women I've dated, I get the sense that perhaps they are more willing to take the chance. They have their demons, just like all of us, but it seems the guy keeps their demons more in mind and are likely to protect themselves. Women seem to get into a R willing to get serious, men jump into a R unwilling to get serious and getting scared when the woman wants it to be.
Did that make any sense? For me, I would like companionship, a few low stress dates, sex if possible, but to go really slow with the serious stuff. Like, I don't know...5 years?
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Quote: Merrick - just a question I'm going to throw out here and I'm not trying to be mean or lash out at you, but from reading your post - are you generally bitter towards women? And you could have good reason to be - that's okay. I sense that in reading your post.
Just because I want all women enslaved to serve only man's pleasure does not mean I'm bitter!
Boy, this could go on forever! You'll have to ask MicheleTW, Underdog, Briget and others if I'm bitter towards women.
However, I won't hide from my feelings that courts do treat men worse than woman in terms of family breakup in the absence serious misconduct by the women. When a W has an A, refuses counseling, engages in behind the scene hysterics and can still have the presumptive edge in getting a D, most of the money, and primary custody, I'm not pleased. The only route I had to combat this presumption was to spend at least $100,000 in legal bills and drag my kids through the judicial process, for AT BEST a 50-50 shot in an aloof "he says-she says" setting. This was a price I was not willing to pay. And despite my acquiesence on most items, every interaction with W is only positive so long as she is getting her way. The second any disagreement is introduced, Mr. Hyde appears.
Thus, I guess it's natural that my views towards my W are projected on all women--especially when so many other women urged my W on, as if they were achieving their own freedom from the sometimes dreary realities of their own Ms by living vicariously through W. One neighbor--the last person I would expect this from, even wrote to W (I am a confessed snooper) that she was setting a new standard from the old notions of chained bondage in striking out on her own.
Still, I made my choices and have to live with them. I do, however, spend a good deal of my time in prayer asking God for the grace to wring out any bitterness and ill will, and to find the forgiveness that He grants me.
So at the end of the day, it's probably less bitterness than a clear wariness/self-defense mechanism to steer clear of any intimacy with the opposite sex at this time.
Sad_but_True: I'm sorry I don't know your entire story but I gather you were involved in a relationship following your divorce and it didn't work (is that what you mean when you said you had 2 heartbreaks in 2 years?)
You made a lot of good points and gave me other ways to look at mens perspectives. Of course after reading your post I feel like a real schmuck when you stated that you want someone who won't leave you or reject you. Although every situation is different and I didn't want to leave him just didn't feel as though I could handle his thoughts being on his past. With what you said about your dad - I could very easily see my former boyfriend dying of a broken heart! I hope for his sake he can get some counseling and work his way through this!
You stated that you have no one else to talk over your feelings with after the divorce - you were fortunate to have been in a marriage where you shared how you felt. I lived for 18 years with someone who kept everything inside - it was awful - we never connected in that respect.
I hope for you, you connect with a women in a similar situation who can keep it as friends so you have someone to do a movie or a dinner with now and then. Heck - take your grandma out.
Merrick - I hate that you generalize also. I most certainly do not fall into that lump of humanity that you are suggesting is there. It makes it sound like men are pigs. I recognize that some men (many men?) are "much more interested in having sex than a getting into another R" but I for one do not appreciate being included in that generalization. I respect women and myself more than that.
As to the rest of your post - I heartily agree with your statements about where our priorities should lie. No question there at all. I agree that introducing a new R to the family can create a series of new problems and headaches - but it can also bring a load of good stuff too. Also, a new R doesn't have to be brought into the family mix, at least not right away.
(divorced twice). So I guess it is possible to get out there again.
pleasure does not mean I'm bitter!